Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Friday 05 February 2010, 17:02

Title: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 05 February 2010, 17:02
I have just discovered the splendid Symphony (written in 1940) by Hubert Clifford (1904-59). It's on Chandos coupled with Edgar Bainton's rather Baxian Symphony No.2. Anyway if you like, say, Walton's 1st, you'll like the Clifford as it's written in very much the same idiom, especially the first movement. Another winner which I'd missed from Chandos...
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Steven Eldredge on Friday 05 February 2010, 20:31
Thanks Alan,


I will have to look into that CD. I have always loved the Walton First Symphony. What's not to love there?
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: thalbergmad on Friday 05 February 2010, 22:05
I think i might have to buy this as i have never heard Clifford and after listening to the other Chandos disk that contained some Bainton, I am ready for more.

Thal
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 05 February 2010, 22:17
Try these audio excerpts here...

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Hubert-Clifford-Symphony-1940/hnum/1567760 (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Hubert-Clifford-Symphony-1940/hnum/1567760)
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Pengelli on Friday 12 February 2010, 12:22
Regarding alternatives to Walton's 1st. I don't think you can go better than Stanley Bate's Symphony No 3. One of the most impressive British symphonies I've ever heard. A very powerful work, with a sound world similair to Walton & Clifford ,yet with the lyricism, approachability and romantic poignancy of Vaughan Williams at his best. It really packs a punch & was taken up by a number of leading conductor's and orchestra's in it's day. Dutton Vocalian have now taken up Bate's worthy cause and his 3rd symphony & Viola Concerto are now available on cd & in splendid recordings worthy of the best that Chandos & Hyperion have to offer. These two cds are the first in a survey of Bate's major works and will, hopefully, put this very major British composer back on the musical map,where he belongs!
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 04 May 2010, 20:34
Bate's Symphony No.3 is indeed an extremely impressive piece, very much of its time and in a recognisably British symphonic idiom. Well worth investigating in the excellent performance and recording given to it on Dutton.
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Pengelli on Wednesday 05 May 2010, 11:42
Calum MacDonald writing in February's IRR Magazine seemed to have some reservations about the finale;finding it's main subject a little awkward.'like a man trying to start an aircraft propeller turning'. I had the same feeling about this when I first heard the work. Still, Walton ,himself. had difficulty completing his more famous work,and taken as a whole,Bate's symphony is still a very impressive work,and it really shouldn't have taken this long for a commercial recording to appear. Anyway,well done to Dutton. Hopefully,it won't be too long before we get to hear more of Bate's output.
CM also observed that the '1965' Cheltenham Festival performance of Bate's 3rd with the CBSO under Boult,was more spacious,giving Bate's ideas more time to breathe. He also point's out that he possessed (or possessed?) a reel to reel tape of this and expresses his hope that if a master exists Testament might be able to release the performance on cd. I would certainly concur with this. (Or,maybe some other cd label might oblige?). Niggles aside, Bate's music really does have a special flavour and quality of it's own.

Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Pengelli on Wednesday 05 May 2010, 16:35
Regarding the Clifford. I must admit it was the Bainton symphony that 'grabbed me' on that particular cd. That's not to knock the Clifford symphony,and I will certainly have another go at it, as soon as I have the time.
Incidentally,Chandos told me that they were, 'rest assured,' interested in recording the symphonies of Stanley Bate. Does anyone here know if there is anything in the 'offing'? I understand a few of their projects have fallen through,for reasons,obviously,and, sadly,out of their control. I do post regularly on their forum,but there are some people on this forum who seem to have some 'insider' information!!!
If not,I'm quite sure Dutton are well up to the job.
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Delicious Manager on Tuesday 29 June 2010, 13:07
The late, great Vernon 'Tod' Handley introduced me to Ernest Moeran's G minor symphony in the mid-80s. That struck me as quite Waltonian in parts.
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 25 October 2010, 19:14
Bate's 3rd is absolutely superb - the finale is especially thrilling. I wonder what No.4 will be like in the new Dutton recording...
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: vandermolen on Thursday 06 January 2011, 22:22
Harold Truscott Symphony (should appeal to Nielsen fans). I love the Bate No 3 and the Clifford 'Symphony 1940' and Bainton's Third Symphony. Arnell Symphony No 3 (and 4 and 5) are great works too, which should appeal to Walton fans.
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Pengelli on Friday 07 January 2011, 00:18
I bought the Stanley Bate 4th from Dutton,when it was released. The first time I listened I found it less distinctive. Then I left it on repeat while I was working on the pc and I have since come to the conclusion that it is a far more impressive & cohesive work than it's predecessor,and there aren't the same problems with the finale,as there are with No 3,excellent as it is. If further volumes are as good as this one I might start thinking he is possibly a major figure.
Thoroughly recommended,although I would really have preferred all Bate discs. Still,just use the programmer!
I like Bainton's second,although I only have it on cassette at the moment!
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 10 August 2011, 16:31
Klami's 1st Symphony seems in much the same orbit as Walton and Clifford. Sibelius is a constant looming presence, but there is also much sharp rhythmic writing which makes for a very satisfying mix. Why have I only just discovered him, and who else is out there?
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Rainolf on Wednesday 10 August 2011, 16:50
E. J. Moeran's Sinfonietta may be a candidate, too.
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Latvian on Wednesday 10 August 2011, 19:53
I doubt Walton was a conscious influence, but I hear bits of Walton's harmonic and rhythmic style in the more dynamic sections of the final movement of Symphony No. 1 (1946) by Joly Braga Santos (1924-1988). Hints of Moeran surface now and then as well, with the whole work suffused with a mildly spicy, Mediterranean modalism. An excellent recording is available on Marco Polo for anyone who is curious.

Yes, too, to Klami's 1st Symphony.
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Sicmu on Wednesday 10 August 2011, 22:26
I've been a huge fan of Walton's music for many years and also looked for composers who sounds like him. To me the Clifford is OK but suffers several orchestration issues, I agree that Braga Santos sounds a little bit like Walton but IMO his modal approach of the harmony is closer to VW ( strangely enough, it's something one can also notice in Gonchiksumla's Symphonies).

I could add a couple of more composers to the list : both RR Bennett and Rutter's Partita for orchestra ( obviously a tribute to Walton's own partita who was himself strongly influenced by the score of Roussel's Suite in F !), Cooke' first ( like Walton he was also influenced by Hindemith), Joubert's first, Julian Orbon, Bo Linde ( especially with the violin concerto) and to stick with the australians : Robert Hughes, Dorian Le Gallienne, Clive Douglas, Lovelock. Some of their works are available here :

http://www.abc.net.au/classic/australianmusic/presented/fulllist.htm?WT.mc_id=ClassicFM_FrontPage_classicamp_composer (http://www.abc.net.au/classic/australianmusic/presented/fulllist.htm?WT.mc_id=ClassicFM_FrontPage_classicamp_composer)

if anybody is interested I can upload the very Waltonian first Symphony of Robert Hughes and if I may add my own orchestral study :

http://www.mediafire.com/?mty2dmnwih0 (http://www.mediafire.com/?mty2dmnwih0)

Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Latvian on Thursday 11 August 2011, 13:33
Some excellent points! I'd never considered the Walton influence in some of the composers you mention, such as Orbon and Linde. I'll have to listen to Lovelock and Hughes again in light of your observation, too. Hughes' music is magnificent -- Dutton or Toccata should consider him!

While Hindemith certainly did influence Walton and Cooke greatly, I hear much more Hindemith than Walton in Cooke.

RR Bennett, Rutter, and Joubert -- definitely. I'd always thought of LeGallienne as more in the English pastoral style, but now that you mention it, there's certainly Walton there, too.

I haven't had a chance to listen to your work yet -- thanks for posting it, though!
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 11 August 2011, 14:21
Thanks, Sicmu. I'd certainly be interested in hearing Robert Hughes' 1st Symphony...
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Sicmu on Friday 12 August 2011, 05:00
Quote from: Latvian on Thursday 11 August 2011, 13:33
Some excellent points! I'd never considered the Walton influence in some of the composers you mention, such as Orbon and Linde. I'll have to listen to Lovelock and Hughes again in light of your observation, too. Hughes' music is magnificent -- Dutton or Toccata should consider him!

While Hindemith certainly did influence Walton and Cooke greatly, I hear much more Hindemith than Walton in Cooke.

RR Bennett, Rutter, and Joubert -- definitely. I'd always thought of LeGallienne as more in the English pastoral style, but now that you mention it, there's certainly Walton there, too.

I haven't had a chance to listen to your work yet -- thanks for posting it, though!

Yes I do think that Lovelock's Viola concerto is Waltonian in places but one can also find some Finzi in it.

Hughes is in my view a combination of some Walton, Bax and Ireland ( he also wrote "a Forgotten Rite") but of course he is more than that : his beautiful music really deserves modern recordings.

I agree that Le Gallienne's Sinfonietta is a pastoral one in the vein of Finzi and VW, I will give another listen to the symphony that sounds darker in my memory .

Thinking of Walton's music, Gareth Walters ( Primavera Overture) and Richard Mills are two more names that come to my mind but I haven't played music by these composers for a while.
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: John H White on Saturday 13 August 2011, 14:58
What a pity Walton's 1st symphony was just a one off! Having waited so many years for its successor, I was so disappointed when he actually produced it. It would seem that some composers reach a peak and then go down hill.
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Sicmu on Saturday 13 August 2011, 15:40
Quote from: John H White on Saturday 13 August 2011, 14:58
What a pity Walton's 1st symphony was just a one off! Having waited so many years for its successor, I was so disappointed when he actually produced it. It would seem that some composers reach a peak and then go down hill.

I disagree : Walton's first is a masterpiece indeed but the second is also a very good work. There is no drama like in the first but the music is just incredible : lyrical and robust and the variations on the 12 tone theme of the last mvt allow him to display a total command of the orchestra, much more subtle and refined than in the fisrt Symphony. The cello concerto is also a masterpiece BTW.
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: vandermolen on Tuesday 06 September 2011, 23:18
Klaus Egge Symphony No 1 (Aurora CD) is waltonian I think - a fine work.
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Latvian on Wednesday 07 September 2011, 18:43
I don't find the 2nd the least bit inferior to the 1st. Perhaps my experience is a bit unusual, in that I became familiar with the 2nd Symphony several years before ever hearing the 1st Symphony. When I finally heard the 1st, I was bowled over, but it didn't cause me to think any less of the 2nd.

Many fans of the 1st Symphony were probably expecting something similar from the 2nd, and were disappointed when Walton took a different direction stylistically. To me, both works are masterpieces in their own ways, just different.
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Delicious Manager on Thursday 08 September 2011, 11:44
For those who enjoy the Sibelius influence in Klami's First Symphony, try No 3 by Leevi Madetoja.

For me, the natural successor to both Walton and Nielsen in his symphonies is Robert Simpson - simply one of the finest series of symphonies of the 20th century.
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 08 September 2011, 12:19
I personally find little of Walton in Simpson - Nielsen, yes...
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: vandermolen on Monday 17 October 2011, 22:16
Walton fans might also enjoy Arthur Benjamin's Symphony No 1 of 1945 - another epic work. Stanley Bate's 4th Symphony has a wonderful ending of epic hopeless defiance - a very fine symphony - just as good as his No 3.
Title: Re: If you like Walton 1, you'll like this...
Post by: albion on Monday 17 October 2011, 23:28
Quote from: vandermolen on Monday 17 October 2011, 22:16Stanley Bate's 4th Symphony has a wonderful ending of epic hopeless defiance - a very fine symphony - just as good as his No 3.

I'm really glad to see another positive response to Bate's 4th - the Dutton disc doesn't seem to have quite caught the reviewers' attention to nearly the same extent as that of the third.

Perhaps they've moved on ...

::)