I wonder if anyone else has spotted this forthcoming release...
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Fuga%2BLibera/FUG596 (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Fuga%2BLibera/FUG596)
How interesting. I do hope that the recording is also available for digital download as the last thing that I want is yet another recording if Franck's chocolate brown Symphony.
Well, I might be tempted to buy this because (believe it, or not) I do not possess a copy of Franck's Symphony!
You can have one of mine, Gareth, most of which have been played but once...
I've pre-ordered the CD, so I'll be keeping friends informed of the quality of its contents in due course...
Slightly off-topic, but some time ago I bought the 5 CD box Musique pour piano, mainly because I was very curious to hear the 2nd PC op. 11. Just unbelievable. At first hearing I was thinking of an undiscovered Hummel. No, it wasn't. Moscheles perhaps? No, this showpiece was composed by the 13 year old César. Really amazing.
I'd really like to find out what happened to the first concerto, composed when he was 11!
Never published or lost!!!!
Well, in the end I still had to buy yet another unwanted copy of Franck's wretched Symphony in order to get my hands on what I really wanted: the 1846 Symphonic Poem Ce qu'on entende sur la montagne, which was downloadable only with the full album! I'm pleased that I did, though, because the Symphonic Poem is a really impressive piece of work from the 24 year old composer. Lasting 24 minutes it is full of grandeur and conceived on a monumental scale which, inevitably I suppose, brings to mind Liszt's work of the same name from just a couple of years later. Actually, the sound world is quite Lisztian too and Franck's orchestration is as colourfully effective as the much later Le Chausseur Maudit, for example. A really enjoyable listen. The ballet from his late opera Hulda, which rounds out the CD, is a bit heavy footed I thought, and I don't lay that at the door of conductor Christian Arming, as his performance of Ce qu'on entende is full of light.
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 27 November 2012, 11:07
Well, in the end I still had to buy yet another unwanted copy of Franck's wretched Symphony....
Judging from more than a few similar comments, I know I am in the distinct minority in regards to the Franck symphony. I love the work and have ever since I was given a copy (Monteux/Chicago) when I was 13 or so. The symphony is bursting with melody, it's got plenty of drama, the orchestration is superb, colorful, and inventive. The three movement design - Bax, among others, sure learned that lesson. The coda of the last movement brings the symphony to a satisfying close that the likes of Draeseke, Raff, Rubinstein, Spohr, Gernsheim, and other composers beloved by readers on this site were never able to achieve. For many decades it was well enough thought of that virtually every conductor of repute recorded it. I still own Bernstein, Karajan, Ormandy, Barbirolli, Maazel, Chailly, Paray, Monteux, Fistoulari, Ansermet, Toscanini, Furtwangler, Dutoit, Giulini, Cluytens, Beecham and Boult. If musicians of this calibre take up the symphony, doesn't that say something? Maybe there is something about this symphony that IS worth our time? So...what is it about this chestnut that you don't like? What makes it so bad?
I don't really want to get diverted on to the Symphony, Martin, but since you ask:
Quote
virtually every conductor of repute recorded it
That's my problem. It's the piece's very ubiquity when I was in my late teens and twenties which counts against it now, as far as I am concerned. I'm not actually disagreeing with anything which you say in support of the piece, although I don't find the orchestration "colourful". I always think of it as a muddy brown colour. But that aside I'll hold my hands up and say that my dislike is pure prejudice which I won't defend but am comfortable with. I used to enjoy the work but then heard it so often that I got fed up with it and it has never regained favour with me.
Splendid! I'm glad to see you sticking up for the "wretched symphony" for I think it is rather a fine thing. At an age when I had just left my short trousers behind me I attended a concert in about 1964 (in Wolverhampton Civic Hall no less!) when Adrian Boult conducted it. That was my second comcert, and a few weeks after the first (Hugo Rignold with the CBSO in an all Beethoven programme). A good start to a concert going life, and I've treasured the Franck symphony ever since. Ahem, methinks Mark has got a pair of ill-fitting shoes and they're pinching the toes and causing a jaundiced outlook on life!
Oh no, Peter, I'm positively Pollyanna-ish when it comes to life generally, but I'll admit that Franck's Symphony does get my scowling muscles twitching!
We all have our blind spots, I suppose - and I'll deliberately fail to respond to the distinctly tendentious notion that the ending of Franck's Symphony is superior to anything of the sort written by the unsung composers mentioned in a previous post, even though I actually hold the piece in the highest regard.
But Mark's right: the point of acquiring this CD is not the decidedly sung Symphony in D minor, but the pretty well completely unsung and very arresting early (1846) symphonic poem Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne. This is very Lisztian in sound, although it surely precedes the latter's contributions to the genre, and is, I would have thought, pretty radical for its date. It's a real find - certainly one of the most important of the year for me.
So, no more discussion of the wretched/great Symphony, please. The symphonic poem's the thing here.
I like the symphony too, perhaps because it was frequently used in The Smurfs...
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 27 November 2012, 11:07
Well, in the end I still had to buy yet another unwanted copy of Franck's wretched Symphony in order to get my hands on what I really wanted: the 1846 Symphonic Poem Ce qu'on entende sur la montagne, which was downloadable only with the full album!
I for one would forgo buying over buying something I don't want, especially because there's no reason they need to force you to buy the whole thing outside of "well this is the album!" mentality which completely seems silly when discussing individual classical pieces.
For those members who might be interested, the individual track for Franck's 'Ce Qu'on...' is available as an MP3 download from Amazon for £0.89 (rather than have to buy/download the whole album). Some 24 minutes anticipated sheer pleasure for just 89p is good going, I reckon!!
Cheers
Richard
That's a terrific bargain. I only wish I'd spotted it >:(
That is a good deal and I, for one, appreciate the fact that some MP3 retailers are finding it advantageous to market that way. I know that those of us who do not appreciate the fact that we are faced with buying decisions such as this CD offers, do take some crap for "complaining". I apologize for that.
But you know, the recorded music industry seems to me to be one of the only ones in the world where you're forced to buy something you don't want in order to get something, often smaller, that you do want. Imagine going into your favorite pub, sideling up to the bar and having the bartender tell you that, certainly, you can purchase a pint of your favorite ale, but of course, you have to buy two cartons of our stale cigarettes as well. Or for every ten gallons of petrol you buy you have to also purchase 10 air fresheners for your auto......
Aw. shut up Jerry. This thread is supposed to be Franck......
PS: How come no one has commented on the ballet fragments that also are on the disc? From the samples at Amazon, they seem quite pleasant.
Quote from: jerfilm on Wednesday 17 April 1974, 05:40
But you know, the recorded music industry seems to me to be one of the only ones in the world where you're forced to buy something you don't want in order to get something, often smaller, that you do want.
Well of course it makes sense when you're only buying a physical media. But I wouldn't say ONLY -- there are often game soundtracks you can only get by buying the game (and in a few cases, you have to buy the game to be able to BUY the game soundtrack digitally). Or the occasional bonus games you get from a bundle, and stuff.
Quote
PS: How come no one has commented on the ballet fragments that also are on the disc? From the samples at Amazon, they seem quite pleasant.
Makes this disc temping. Being as I only have one recording of the Symphony, another would not be a horrid ordeal to get some more interesting stuff...
Quoteno one has commented on the ballet fragments that also are on the disc?
I did mention them in my post:
QuoteThe ballet from his late opera Hulda, which rounds out the CD, is a bit heavy footed I thought
Slightly off the topic of 'Franck', but if Mark/Alan will allow a response to Jerfilm's comments above...
In terms of being able to download just the tracks you want, I can't praise Hyperion enough for allowing just that! As I now have at least 1 copy of most 'known' major orchestral (non-opera) repetoire, when an unknown gets coupled to something I've already got, their policy enables me to get what I need and no more. Also their approach to making booklet notes available just adds icing to the cake (BTW, I have no connection to Hyperion, just sheer admiration for what they do and how they do it).
Cheers
Richard
OK, and now back to the topic, please...
Well Classicstoday.com reviewed this disc.
No idea what they SAID because it's only an "insiders" review. Probably doesn't help this disc...
"No idea what they SAID because it's only an "insiders" review. Probably doesn't help this disc..."
Just wait one week or something like this and you'll be able to read it thanks to the cached version of Google ;)
Here we go!
Fabulous, Undiscovered Franck From Fuga Libera
By David Hurwitz on November 29, 2012 in
César Franck remains perhaps the most unknown of all the great composers. He wrote operas, oratorios, symphonic poems, and chamber music throughout his life, but except for the few late works virtually all of it languishes in obscurity. Then there are the organ works, the finest of their kind since Bach, which remain the province primarily of organists. I have to confess, I am often no fan of organ music generally, but Franck's music for the instrument really does have the power to cross over and give pleasure even to the most hard core doubters.
This splendid disc features music you probably haven't ever heard. The tone poem Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne (What One Hears on the Mountain) dates from 1847, predating Liszt's first symphonic poem of the same title by two or three years. It may thus be the very first symphonic poem in history, and it's beautiful. The very opening, with its high violins and suspended cymbals, is an astonishing piece of orchestration for its date, far more sophisticated than anything that Liszt or Wagner were doing at the time (the work is contemporary with Tannhäuser). Franck's musical ideas are more striking than Liszt's, his structure more cohesive over virtually the same span of time–about 25 minutes. It was recorded at least once previously, for Koch, but this performance is clearly superior both as playing and sound.
Hulda was Franck's last completed opera, and the ballet music, an allegorical "four seasons" type of scenario, is just good French dance music of the period, enriched by some typically Franckian harmonic spice. Laid out in five shapely movements, I offer samples of the second (Winter's Dance), with its gorgeous lyrical writing, and the boisterous finale. As you will hear for yourself, the playing and recorded sound are excellent in all respects. Christian Arming leads Franck's home town forces in audibly committed interpretations, which is a good thing because you also get yet another recording of the inevitable Symphony in D minor.
Happily, it's also one of the best to come out in recent years. Arming paces this tricky piece just about perfectly. The first movement, in particular, has no dead spots whatsoever. The central allegretto finds exactly the right point of balance between andante and scherzo, and the finale has plenty of excitement, with a powerfully built coda enhanced by Arming's directness of expression and firm pulse. This important release is sure to give great pleasure, and it deserves a place in every serious collection.
[Note: Those interested in learning more about Franck should consider purchasing R.J. Stove's recently published (2012) biography César Franck: His Life and Times, the first major study of the composer in English in over three decades.]
There is an interesting new release due. Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne, a symphonic poem based on Victor Hugo. I only post because i think the poem is unsung. I have not listened yet, so cannot I comment about the performance, but looking forward.
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8767673--franck-by-franck
Very cool! Looking forward to it. Thank you.
Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne
Mikko Franck, Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France
This piece has its limitations and tends to go up several roads but never actually reach any destinations. One could say plenty of ebb and flow. This is forgivable being one of his early works. That said, it keeps you on your toes and keeps your attention.
The conductor and orchestra are in totally sync. Their understanding of the work is highly commendable. Bold and dramatic, emotional moving, absolutely magnificent display from the strings pulls this piece to another level.
Apparently this is the first issue from Alpha and the Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France. Not sure what their next project is, but lets hope there is some more unsung French/Belgium gems for the future.
You know, it's crazy to me that Franck's symphonic poems are still largely unknown. They are some of the best examples of the period IMO. Their must be a million and one recordings and arrangements of his violin sonata but so few of his tone poems is quite scandalous if you ask me.
I think you are right, Kevin. With the exception of the symphony, the orchestral works seem to have been sidelined by the violin sonata and the organ works for about 20 years now. I certainly didn't notice it back in the 80s and 90s.
... hrm. Has even Le chasseur maudit fallen out of fashion in concert and recordings in the last two decades? (Ok, most* of the recently released recordings listed on Presto are older recordings, though there is Tingaud on Naxos coming out in -- 2 weeks!... - together with Psyché (ooh, full? version, for choir and orchestra. I wonder if they did a recording of the full Rédemption too before quarantine hit? I only have the brief orchestral excerpt myself) and Les éolides...)
*Not all, though! Several of the recordings listed as issued in the last decade seem to be new ones. Yes, this isn't "early" orchestral music, but you did say "with the exception of the symphony..." and you led me to wondering (in the latest comment, not the original post. That the earliest orchestral works don't get out so often- is not solely a Franckist problem, I think, lovely as I gather some of them are.)
We're straying off-topic here. As far as I know Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne is Franck's only early purely orchestral work...
Would I be correct in assuming some of César Franck's earlier works are lost. I seem to have read something about an early symphony as well. I'd like to touch on the D minor symphony reg. the orchestration - although I love this symphony and don't find the orchestration lacking probably because its a very somber piece and the composer orchestrated it accordingly; I do understand why many have issues with the orchestration. Chausson's symphony on the other hand is superbly handled and a good example of what Franck's symphony should ideally sound like, but then again Chausson's work is joyful. I imagine if Franck's symphony was orchestrated "colourfully" it would loose the important somber and pathos ridden feel. Just my opinion thought... I could be wrong :)
May I just interject? If friends wish to discuss Franck's later unsung works, then please do so in a new thread. And I don't think we should get into Franck's Symphony here because it's not unsung - indeed, it has received well in excess of 100 recordings.
In his book "La véritable histoire de César Franck" (Flammarion, 1955), Léon Vallas mentions two concertos for piano and orchestra (composed 1836/37 Op. 9 and Op. 11, the second one is available on Naxos) and a symphony Op. 13. He adds that a note on the score suggests that it had been executed or at least deciphered by the "Société philharmonique d'Orléans" on February 16, 1841. This seems to imply that the score, or a part of it, should exist somewhere. I've read elsewhere (http://musiqueorguequebec.ca/catal/franck/fraccatc.html (http://musiqueorguequebec.ca/catal/franck/fraccatc.html)) that the key of Op. 13 is G major.
some other early music for piano and orchestra by Franck has been scanned by Gallica - variations sets in manuscript (op.5/CFF 132 " Variations Brillantes // Sur l'Air du Pré aux Clercs // Souvenirs du jeune Age // avec // Accompagnement d'Orchestre. // Composées pour le // Piano Forté // et dédiées à ..... // Par César-Auguste Franck // agé de Onze ans et demi " (in A major) (piano part only though, I think) ;
"Variations Brillantes // sur // La Ronde Favorite de Gustave III. // Composées pour le Piano & dédiées à // M.r J.B. Teste avocat du Tresor & Deputé du Gard // par // César-Auguste Franck // âgé de 12 ans // Op. 8 [CFF 133, 1834]" (full score in manuscript, also digitized) ;
they also have the concerto op.11 in full score @ BNF (https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b550081554) should anyone like to read it (while listening to the Naxos recording or otherwise.)
and while we're on the subject, the score of Ce qu'on entend sur la montagne, (https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b55008158g) CFF 126 of 1846 (manuscript).
Quote(piano part only though, I think) ;
That's correct, Eric.
hopefully some other source has the orchestral material :)
Sorry, Alan. Just wanted to put in my defense for this abused symphony. But you are right. its not unsung... so on to the early orchestral works
No problem. Thanks for your understanding.