I am wondering to what extent members of this forum have explored the music of contemporary composers in Japan, China and Taiwan, writing in a romantic style? And what your reactions are?
As a starting point, one could take the Taiwanese composer Tyzen Hsiao (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyzen_Hsiao (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyzen_Hsiao)), born 1938 and still going, though unwell. As an introduction, the violin concerto is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg7YqcCqCOs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg7YqcCqCOs).
Tyzen Hsaio's VC is certainly lovely - no complaints on that score. But listening to it is rather like eating a whole cheesecake in one go. The start of the finale is a blatant rip-off of the finale of Barber's VC, by the way, although the music soon goes its own way.
Downloads of the composer's hyper-romantic VC, PC and CC are available here:
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Taiwan%2BPhilharmonic%252C%2BNational%2BSymphony%2BOrchestra/MD005 (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Taiwan%2BPhilharmonic%252C%2BNational%2BSymphony%2BOrchestra/MD005)
Never tried a whole cheesecake in one go, and somehow don't feel inclined to try. Doubtless a head buried in the sand attitude but, heck, there's more than enough western music to explore in a finite lifetime without venturing to the far east. Sorry Gauk!
Here's a review at MusicWeb:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Jan04/HSIAO.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2004/Jan04/HSIAO.htm)
Having now downloaded the VC and PC, I can honestly say that it's all lushly romantic stuff with plenty of tunes and reminiscences of other composers, but not a hint of individuality anywhere. Still, a lovely listen - and of what other works written in 1988 and 1992 can one genuinely say that?
Just one other general - and very subjective - observation. I often have the impression that music written in a western idiom by far eastern composers is peculiarly static and doesn't really 'go anywhere'. In other words, the 'moment' is frequently very beautiful, but the music seems to meander from one such moment to another. Would this have anything to do with the nature of far eastern indigenous music?
I can see what you mean, but I'm not at all sure that it is anything cultural, and I think one can find Chinese and Japanese pieces where that was not true. My suspicion is that is connected with the lack of individuality, which is a criticism I agree with in some but not all cases. In the case that a composer is writing in an essentially derivative style, the result is likely to be superficial in content.
Incidentally, I would also draw attention to the series of CDs of Japanese music brought out by Naxos over the last years, which include a variety of styles from Romantic through to various degrees of modernism. One that is more likely to be of interest to people here is Qunihico Hashimoto's 1st Symphony (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.555881 (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.555881)), which includes one of the most obsessive "ear-worm" tunes..
My reaction to Hashimoto 1 is the same as the reviewer at Amazon.com:
<<Seen in historical perspective this symphony is surely an important landmark in Western composition in Japan. But standing on its own, it is hardly to be classed even with second-rate late 19th century products of Europe itself.>>
The first Japanese symphony would appear to be that by Yamada:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yamada-New-Zealand-Symphony-Orchestra/dp/B0001AXQHS/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1369413829&sr=1-2&keywords=yamada (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Yamada-New-Zealand-Symphony-Orchestra/dp/B0001AXQHS/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1369413829&sr=1-2&keywords=yamada)
It was written in 1912.
Of all the CDs in Naxos' Japanese Classics series, this is the one I would buy first.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Friday 24 May 2013, 16:55
<<Seen in historical perspective this symphony is surely an important landmark in Western composition in Japan. But standing on its own, it is hardly to be classed even with second-rate late 19th century products of Europe itself.>>
That could possibly be read as offensive: "It's great for a Japanese, but rubbish otherwise". (Though I'm sure it was not intended as such).
The first Japanese composer I ever encountered was Moroi, whose first name is variously given as Sabur, Sabura and Saburo. His 2nd symphony, written around the time of the Japanese invasion of China and a reaction to it, is a very strange piece. It sounds more like Bruckner than anyone else, and the first movement is a massive fugue; the music pitches right into the fugue at the opening without any prelude. I know of no other symphony that does that.
Other music by Moroi that I have heard since has been much less distinctive.
I really don't think that was the reviewer's intention. I don't perceive that implication in the sentence.
Agreed, Gareth. It simply means that, for Japanese music, the work has clear significance, but that, seen in the wider context of the tradition as a whole, the work is of much less significance. Hardly controversial. And clearly true, I would have thought.
It does not seem to take much nowadays for someone to take offence.
I speak as someone who was labelled as racist for criticising Lang Lang.
I have now retired from criticising anything. It is safer that way.
Thal
Precisely so, Alan. Oh, and I'll support you in your criticism of Lang Lang, Thal. And I don't care if I'm labelled a racist. Only a stupid person could think that - and a stupid person's opinion is of no value anyway.
Thanks old chap ;D
The problem far too often these days is that negative criticism is taken as some sort of personal slight. In our therapeutic culture we apparently have to massage people's egos the whole time. The result, of course, is the abandonment of all discernment and the acceptance of mediocrity.
I've even seen people take the attitude that you're not allowed to criticize something unless you can do better.
I know from experience one has to be careful with that sort of remark, no matter how it is meant.
Anyway, back to the music ...
One shouldn't have to be careful, though - beyond avoiding the obvious use of inflammatory language. No: the problem is that which has been identified by other forum members - i.e. that mere negative assessment of someone or something is far too often taken as a personal insult, which is ridiculous.
With regard to music, this means that we must be allowed to say that a piece is second-rate without someone who holds a different opinion feeling offended. So, for example, it seems to me perfectly acceptable to argue that these far-eastern examples of romanticism are essentially second-rate (e.g. because they are derivative), while still valuing them for their virtues of melody, orchestration, etc.
QuoteThe problem far too often these days is that negative criticism is taken as some sort of personal slight. In our therapeutic culture we apparently have to massage people's egos the whole time. The result, of course, is the abandonment of all discernment and the acceptance of mediocrity.
Very well put, Alan. Exactly so.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Sunday 26 May 2013, 08:37
With regard to music, this means that we must be allowed to say that a piece is second-rate without someone who holds a different opinion feeling offended.
Oh, of course. The only danger with the Amazon review is it could be taken as saying that something second-rate was very good for Japan. Rather than just saying it is second-rate, which would have been quite straightforward.
Actually second-rate music can also be enjoyable - I think the Hashimoto is worth hearing.
Agreed. As long as our enjoyment doesn't lead to a lack of the proper objectivity.
There is a quote I once read on the back of an LP sleeve, and sadly, I can no longer remember the exact quote nor who was being quoted, but it was something like, "The head finds fault, but the heart understands and grants pardon".
I don't really agree with the head/heart dichotomy. It's far too simplistic.
Looking at "derivative" Asian romantic music, I'm reminded of their penchant for copying Western art in all its forms. To wit - the gangster films pouring out from So. Korea, Thailand, Japan and China all drip with Tarantino's flair. A lot of Asian fashion closely resembles, or are direct copies of, the stylings of Dior, Lagerfeld, Klein, et. al. The Asian kids are rapping now. They even have prosperous boy bands ala Backstreet Boys and N'Sync. Even their metal bands sounds eerily like Iron Maiden, Metallica or Evanescence. It is unfortunate that Asian romantic music sounds like [insert Western composer here], but I would admit that, on any given day, it's better than listening to most of the new music being created lately.
Well, threading "Romantic", "20th-century" and (appreciably not derivative) needles is asking for a bit. Those sets do intersect but the result is not large.
(It doesn't need to be added that not all Asian 20th century music is Romantic, of course- but the late, though not because (almost) executed, Yun I-sang comes to mind if an example were needed.)
The 'derivative' quality we discern in Asian music (the "Far East" of which you speak is actually the Far North for me!) isn't hard to explain. After all, the European classical tradition provides the models from which all composers, consciously or unconsciously, derive their compositional language. I suspect that only the truly gifted composers could easily transcend that process, and compose with an original voice.
Of course, this also relates to the issue of cultural context and impact of 'local' factors on musical style - perhaps even to the extent of the search for a 'national style' (which we have discussed elsewhere on UC). Australian classical music used to be criticized as derivative and 'un-Australian', and some composers overcame this by turning to local culture and context, e.g. by incorporating distinctive Australian sounds.
I must say that I always hope to hear Japanese instruments incorporated into works by Japanese composers.... even though I realize it is quite unnecessary! ;D
Quote from: semloh on Sunday 02 June 2013, 03:30I must say that I always hope to hear Japanese instruments incorporated into works by Japanese composers.... even though I realize it is quite unnecessary! ;D
Yanking this back towards the original topic... ;D
You may, then, find the
Nagauta Symphony of Yamada to be of some interest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagauta_Symphony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagauta_Symphony)
http://www.amazon.com/K%C3%B3s%C3%A7ak-Yamada-Nagauta-Symphony-Magdalena/dp/B000SKJQUM/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1370274370&sr=1-1&keywords=nagauta+symphony (http://www.amazon.com/K%C3%B3s%C3%A7ak-Yamada-Nagauta-Symphony-Magdalena/dp/B000SKJQUM/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1370274370&sr=1-1&keywords=nagauta+symphony)
I'm guilty, to some extent, of popping the discs in the Naxos Japanese classics series like so much candy, and this is probably my favorite of the lot. Briefly: the symphony takes a traditional composition for the Noh drama and pillows it, unchanged, in a symphony orchestra setting. For lack of a better way to put it, I've described it to friends as being like a piece of jewelry, where the jewel (the traditional work) is set into a larger setting which complements it (the Western orchestra). It's a fascinating work; I like it a great deal. I'm not sure that others would - it's certainly a unique work, in my experience - but I find it very much worth a try.