I enquired of Chandos about their plans for further recordings with Jarvi of Raff and Rufinatscha, and received the following reply:
The Raff was a first volume in a new series, with another 3 volumes planned. I do not have any further information on when the next volume will be available as yet, but I expect it will be sometime in 2014. The Rufinatscha I believe was a stand-alone disc, and there are no further volumes in the pipeline. I hope this helps.
Winnie Fox (Thomsen)
Sales and Marketing Manager
Chandos Records
So, definitely not a Raff symphony cycle - and very disappointing that no further Rufinatscha disks are planned.
Disappointing on both counts. Alas, I fear the point that Alan has raised a number of times is justified: however much we might feel that these two composers have become rescued from oblivion, they just haven't (yet?) impacted upon the man in the street. As a consequence recordings don't sell in huge numbers, and thus companies like Chandos turn lukewarm.
Hrm. Thought that there were definite plans for at least a 2nd volume in the Rufinatscha series, but such things are always subject, I'm guessing, to critical and pocketbook response. (Can think of other examples.)
(He's one composer I was maybe more than a little surprised I'd never heard of - to the extent that I recall thinking, a few years ago, that it was the composer himself who was the April-Fools joke, along the lines of similar hoaxes by Robert Layton and others - given, ...erm... a much over-high personal estimation of my acquaintance with the...well, never mind, anyway. Always glad to be pleasantly surprised, and must get the Chandos disc that did come out sooner than later...)
I would imagine, however (but this is mere speculation!!!) that the other Raff disks are likely to contain at least Symphonies 3 & 5.
I think no.5 was announced as next in the News section (at Raff.org (http://www.raff.org/news/cd_news.htm)) though that's probably not exactly a guarantee.
I believe the next CD in the Rufinatscha series was supposed to contain the Piano Concerto and Symphony No.4 (old 5). I think one problem may have been securing a pianist, but the original intention was definitely for there to be more than one disc in the series, whatever it was to contain. How do we know? Apart from the (admittedly early) conversations to which I was party, the first CD clearly states: Orchestral Works Volume 1.
Of course, Chandos are perfectly entitled to change their minds, but the original plan was clearly for more than one volume. My message to Ms Winnie Fox (Thomsen) is that she should look carefully at the information that appears on the original CD which she is evidently in charge of marketing and selling. It helps to know the products one is selling...
Here's the evidence:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51LF0xab0QL._SY355_.jpg)
It's very disappointing that Chandos may not be going ahead with at least a second Rufinatscha CD, especially as the first one garnered quite respectable reviews. But we should never forget that record labels are businesses and maybe Rufinatscha just didn't sell.
From my point of view, obviously I'm delighted that there looks to be a real prospect of two more Raff symphony CDs from Järvi and the Suisse Romande Orchestra. I understand that they will record the Symphony No.5 Lenore, plus the Celebration Overture and the Overture to the Opera König Alfred next month. I have no idea what is planned for the third CD, but Gareth's assumption of the Symphony No.3 Im Walde would be mine too. Of course, it would be even better to have more of the symphonic cycle, but if Järvi's No.2 and the Shakespeare preludes are any indication of the quality of interpretation and performance we can expect, having three of Raff's four best symphonies available from a major label in such persuasive performances will still be a tremendous addition to his discography.
...and if they could do No.4 - for me Raff's greatest, he said at the risk of offending the experts - this particular Raffian would be very content indeed.
Oh, I'd be quite happy with No.4, too, Alan. Personally, I rate Nos.4 and 5 equal as his best (but very, very different) symphonies.
Well, I was secretly hoping for No. 4 too. Then, for me at least, Jarvi would have recorded Raff's 4 best symphonies - certainly the ones I like best (not necessarily the same thing, I know).
Nos.3 and 4 would fit on one CD with about 5 minutes to spare.....
When I pointed out to Ms Fox Thomsen that the Rufinatscha disk was billed as "Volume One", I received the following response:
"The mention on the cover of it being a first volume
would certainly suggest that there's more to follow. Apologies for
giving you the wrong information, I wasn't aware of this. I can let you
know that there's nothing on the schedules at the moment for the
Rufinatscha series, so Volume 2 is unlikely to appear until Autumn 2014
at the earliest."
So there we have it. Don't hold your breath!
Thanks for doing that digging, Gareth.
Q. What do marketing and sales people know?
A. Apparently very little.
It is remarkable, isn't it? But, sadly, my experience with marketing depts. in other Arts organizations has been similar. (I'll tell you privately what used to be said by the performers about the marketing dept. of a well-known opera company: it is not for display on this forum, I fear.)
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Friday 31 May 2013, 22:08
Nos.3 and 4 would fit on one CD with about 5 minutes to spare.....
They
do fit - the Helios coupling of these two works clocks in at 79m11s..
Mightn't it depend on his tempi (even with an effective limit for CDs - on some players - of 83 or 84 minutes, even good interpretations within bounds of 3 and of 4 might together go over?...)
Of course. I was using Stadlmair's renditions as guide, which together come in at 77 minutes. If his first disc is anything to go by, I'd expect Järvi's to be pacier than that.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Friday 31 May 2013, 18:10
...and if they could do No.4 - for me Raff's greatest, he said at the risk of offending the experts ...
We are in agreement about that; IMO Nos 2 and 4 are the most successful of Raff's symphonies, and not co-incidentally, they are the only two without subtitles. I suspect that one of the reasons why Raff's stock is not higher is that despite writing eleven symphonies, he had problems with symphonic form. His symphonies contain some wonderful music, and some of the individual movements are sublime, but they don't hang together as integrated large-scale structures. They are perhaps more than symphonic suites, but the descriptive programmes do the music no favours. This always bothered me about No 5, which for a long time was the only of the symphonies I could listen to, that despite the attractiveness of the music, there were serious formal problems. Even worse in No 3, with its lop-sided finale, or the sprawling No 1.
Incidentally, it's a shame Previn never recorded Raff - I remember him conducting the first movement of
Lenore with the LSO, and wonderful it was too.
QuoteIncidentally, it's a shame Previn never recorded Raff - I remember him conducting the first movement of Lenore with the LSO, and wonderful it was too.
Did he? How interesting. I didn't know.
Quote from: Gauk on Thursday 06 June 2013, 21:34
Incidentally, it's a shame Previn never recorded Raff - I remember him conducting the first movement of Lenore with the LSO, and wonderful it was too.
Can you remember when? That'd be very interesting to know.
This is stretching things - I think it was probably the early 1970s. He made a television documentary for the BBC about the art of conducting, and used the Lenore first movement as a demonstration piece. At one point he spoke over the music to say how important the conductor's role is, and that there would be chaos if he stopped. To demonstrate, he stopped conducting and turned his back on the players, who continued to play flawlessly. Previn turned round and said "You're all fired!".
That might have been over the Lenore or it might have been another piece - after the interval of 40 years it is surprising I remember it at all.
It'd be good to have chapter and verse. Perhaps the BBC might help?
Gauk has a good memory! When I was a schoolboy Previn was one of my heroes (after all he had longish hair and therefore must have been against all authority and the respectable establishment. Better still, both he - and Bernstein - spoke so wonderfully fluently about music).
I can still 'see' in my mind the image (on a black and white telly) of Previn turning his back on the orchestra who carried on flawlessly whilst Previn produced that impish grin and declared conductors to be redundant.
However three little niggles:
1. I reckon the incident was, not early 1970s, but pre-1966. For in that year I went off to university and, away from home and into a more vibrant environment, television ceased to be part of my life.
2. Pouring a little cold water on the validity of Previn's demonstration, there's no difficulty in imagining his orchestra composed of professional musicians could have carried on flawlessly for 45 seconds or so of television time in a presumably well rehearsed piece. Whether they could have done so for longer or over an entire work is another matter, and this 'experiment' didn't at all establish that an orchestra doesn't need a conductor. But that's entirely tangential to the thread and I'm being a real killjoy!
3. Much more to the point, I wonder if it really was Raff? I remember the incident Gauk reports, but I can't for the life of me remember which piece of music was played for the music itself would have been incidental to the point being made. I would be surprised if it was Raff. Previn surely wouldn't have dug out a then more or less entirely forgotten and neglected piece of music to demonstrate his point? Much more likely I would have thought that it was something Previn and his orchestra had recently performed or rehearsed - the Overture to Fidelio perhaps?
Alas, even if Gauk is entirely right, the chance of discovering a faultless performance of an entire Raff work conducted by Previn in the vaults of the BBC is just as unlikely as discovering a wonderful performance of a Raff symphony right now on the moon.
But if we could have altered history contemplate what might have happened had Previn taken up Raff in the concert hall and recording studio. I have an intuition he might have been a natural for Raff (that 'bounce' and 'swagger' sometimes found in Raff Previn would have pulled off wonderfully.) Perhaps by the 1970s Raff might have become a familiar composer. What a prospect. The serious downside is that in such a different world Mark's Raff website would have been redundant - and that would have been a tragedy for sure!
Tangential (yet again!) to the thread, the other night I diverted my ears from string quartets and dusted off a couple of Previn's recordings of Strauss symphonic poems. By gosh, they are astonishingly good!
not necessarily redundant. Bach's cantatas are on the whole (well... some of them) more popular than Raff's works (though not among his more popular works), and Bach among the best-known composers, but that doesn't prevent the Bach-cantatas website from being an excellent website full of useful information...
Well, a couple of things re petershott's post.
1. It could not have been pre-1966, as I only started listening to music c. 1966. Late 60s would be possible. Also, it was after I had discovered Raff, so c. 1970 is more likely. It was not the first time I had heard the piece, so I had heard the Unicorn recording at this date.
2. It might not have been Raff that he did his comedy stunt on, but I am quite sure he played that movement in the programme, or part of it at least, and I think he did specifically introduce it as a little-known work. It is possible my memory might be faulty, but the musical image of that piece played with the LSO sonority is vivid yet.
Alan: the BBC was very bad at preserving records from that era, so I would not be hopeful. Would be more fruitful to write to Previn, if you can find an address for him.