Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: Gauk on Monday 17 June 2013, 11:22

Title: The odd one out round
Post by: Gauk on Monday 17 June 2013, 11:22
To lighten your Monday, here is a little puzzle not unrelated to the topic of this site:

Musically speaking, which is the odd one out?


Answer at the weekend if no-one guesses, but I'm sure someone will work it out quickly.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 17 June 2013, 17:48
Oxford is the odd one out: Symphony No.92 by Haydn.
The three others are titles of symphonies by British composers: VW2 (London); Parry 2 (Cambridge), Edward German 2 (Norwich).

Or: Haydn's is the only symphony which is not his no.2.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: TerraEpon on Monday 17 June 2013, 18:50
Haydn also wrote one nicknamed London, however (No. 104).

Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 17 June 2013, 19:11
True enough. Any more possibilities?
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Gauk on Monday 17 June 2013, 23:18
Between Alan and eschiss1 (by message) it is solved. To be complete:

London, Cambridge and Norwich all have romantic 2nd symphonies by British composers named after them. Oxford has a classical 92nd symphony by an Austrian!
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Gauk on Monday 17 June 2013, 23:21
Postscript: how many other places in Britain have symphonies named after them? Röntgen's Edinburgh symphony has recently been mentioned. What others?
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 00:53
Cotswolds (Holst) ; Scotland as a whole (Mendelssohn) ; Ireland (several composers) ...
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: petershott@btinternet.com on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 06:57
Nottingham (Alan Bush in 1949), but never, so far as I am aware, either Ipswich or Stoke-on-Trent.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 08:38
Again somewhat later on there is indeed a "Cheltenham symphony" for youth orchestra, by Henry Williams.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Ilja on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 10:38
Quote from: eschiss1 on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 00:53
Cotswolds (Holst) ; Scotland as a whole (Mendelssohn) ; Ireland (several composers) ...

Cornelis Dopper's Second Symphony is also nicknamed the 'Scottish'.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: semloh on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 14:55
Gosh, this has got me thinking.

One of my old favourites is the Symphony No.3 'Westmorland' by Armstrong Gibbs - unless you mean cities/towns, in which case how about Daniel Mason's Symphony No.3 - 'Lincoln'?  ;D
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 15:50
I think that's not meant to refer to the city/town, judging from the subtitles. :D
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Gauk on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 20:12
Quote from: eschiss1 on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 15:50
I think that's not meant to refer to the city/town, judging from the subtitles. :D

LOL, as they say ...

The above posts include all the ones I was thinking of. But we have two "Scottish" symphonies, several "Irish", and there is an "English" by Parry. Is there no "Welsh" symphony by anyone? What an indictment!

Also - it occurs to me that quite often symphonies are named after cities, but not often concertos. So perhaps Howard Blake's "Leeds" VC should also be mentioned here.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 22:18
perhaps less recent than the Blake, I'd think Rodrigo's best known work, which is named after a town, also comes to mind :)

Didn't Cowen write a Welsh symphony? Trying to recall.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 22:22
Easy question btw  - (at a guess) what city in the USA (in the 20th century) (probably) has had the most symphonies and concertos dedicated to it/mention it in its title?
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 22:25
Quote from: eschiss1 on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 22:22
what city in the USA (in the 20th century)

I'll allow this question, but let's keep quizzes relevant to UC, please.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Gauk on Tuesday 18 June 2013, 23:09
It would be Louisville, I guess.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: TerraEpon on Wednesday 19 June 2013, 07:14
(bah, forum eating my post)
I'd guess New York, especially with other subtitles relating to it (Big Apple, etc)

How about the first symphony to be named after a fictional character? I have my guess (and very relevant to UC) but we'll see.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Gauk on Wednesday 19 June 2013, 09:17
Quote from: TerraEpon on Wednesday 19 June 2013, 07:14
How about the first symphony to be named after a fictional character? I have my guess (and very relevant to UC) but we'll see.

As the question stands, the answer is certainly to be found in the pre-romantic era, since all the gods and heroes of classical myth and legend are fictional characters. So works like Dittersdorf's "Fall of Phaeton" symphony would qualify.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 19 June 2013, 10:01
Hrm. I was thinking Louisville... anyway. Fictional but not "mythological", and Romantic-era? Either one of the works associated with Faust or Dante (e.g. Liszt or Pacini's symphonies thereon), or earlier still...
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 19 June 2013, 11:28
Haydn Symphony 43 (1771) "Mercury"? Actually - it may not count, as the title seems to date from the 19th C.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 19 June 2013, 11:51
That would beat the Dittersdorf by a decade even if so... but I'm sure one could go even further back...
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 19 June 2013, 12:00
I'm sure the answer lies way before UC's period, but any more offers?
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: JimL on Wednesday 19 June 2013, 17:55
Dittersdorf would be a good bet.  He was actually a pioneering figure in many ways, whose contributions to music are just starting to be recognized and still waaaaaaaaaay underappreciated.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 19 June 2013, 18:08
However! Pichl's Diana and similar symphonies were published in the late 1760s... predating Haydn's 43rd symphony (whatever the provenance of its nickname) and predating Dittersdorf's 1781 Metamorphoses symphonies as well. (Pichl also "beats out" Mozart in composing one of the first string trios to use a viola I think- not sure... - not that his is remotely comparable to Mozart's K.563 "Divertimento" (I think- I'm not sure if I have or haven't seen/heard Pichl's trio, yet, though the Mozart work is a hard work to be anywhere near comparable to.)
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 19 June 2013, 18:20
Well done, Eric. Any more contenders?
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: JimL on Wednesday 19 June 2013, 18:21
I don't mind topics addressing issues outside of the remit of this forum in the pre- rather than post- direction, provided they are entirely relevant to subjects within the remit of this forum, such as symphonies with extra-musical associations.  Tracing historical precedents is an entirely appropriate subject of discussion.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 19 June 2013, 20:19
It's OK provided that the law of infinite regression doesn't assert itself...
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: semloh on Friday 21 June 2013, 07:38
Well, you all beat me hands down.... as far as romantic symphonies go, all I could think of was Gliere's Ilya Murometz!  ::)
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 21 June 2013, 16:52
Going back to symphonies titled after places, specifically places in the UK and specifically by British composers, I think we should not overlook Stanley Wilson's "Skye" Symphony which won a Carnegie Trust Award in 1927 - and deserves a revival.  (There is also McEwen's "Solway" Symphony, which has been recorded.)
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Gauk on Saturday 22 June 2013, 10:23
Well remembered - I had forgotten those. McEwen is a long-time favourite of mine, as well.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Alkanator on Tuesday 25 June 2013, 03:38
I don't think anyone mentioned Bantock's Hebridean Symphony for symphonies named after UK places.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: JollyRoger on Friday 05 July 2013, 00:04
Edward German: Symphony No. 2 'Norwich'
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: thalbergmad on Friday 05 July 2013, 08:16
I don't know why, but I find that incredibly funny. Why would anyone compose a Symphony and call it Norwich??

I think I will compose a Symphony and call it "Tooting Bus Depot".

Thal
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 05 July 2013, 10:20
Well, Norwich is culturally and historically a rather rich place. No worse than calling a symphony "Cambridge" or "Oxford", surely?
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: petershott@btinternet.com on Friday 05 July 2013, 13:50
Set your prejudices aside, Thal. As English cities go Norwich is actually rather fine. I frequently nip up the road to Norwich for chamber music concerts (and twice a year for a dental check up - and the dentist is amongst the violins of the Norwich Symphony Orchestra). Norwich in fact is a rather cultured place - and marked by a conspicuous absence of muck, graffiti, and unpleasant louts roaming the streets.

German's Symphony No. 2 in A minor quickly became known as the 'Norwich' since it was commissioned for the 1893 Norwich Festival, and conducted at the latter by the composer himself. True, we are not quite in Elgar territory but it is nonetheless a rather splendid work and I enjoy an occasional performance of it. Dig back in the records and you'll find the Norwich audience loved the work and were especially enthusiastic about it. When it was later performed in London G B Shaw ridiculed the work - but bah! why take note of Shaw?

I'm rather tickled by the idea of a Tooting Bec Bus Depot Symphony. I can't imagine it to have passages of heart rending soaring lyricism, and I guess its progress might be constantly punctuated by rasping outbursts of blaring brass. But alas I'm pretty sure those party-pooper moderators of ours would rigorously preclude all discussion of it.
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 05 July 2013, 14:17
Having been involved in the bus industry in a former life, I will have no truck with slighting references to bus depots, thank you! Nor Norwich for that matter: "a fine city" indeed, for that's what the city welcome signs used to say. Just to link the two, I am always amused by the strap-line adopted in the1970s by the Norwich-based bus company, Eastern Counties: "Eastern Counties - we serve you right"! Hmmm.

But back to music...
Title: Re: The odd one out round
Post by: Gauk on Friday 05 July 2013, 14:43
Works named after places are more often so named because of commissions or performances. Smetana's symphonic poem "Prague" is about Prague, but Mozart's Prague Symphony is not, and neither is Kabelevsky's Prague Piano Concerto.