Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: LateRomantic75 on Thursday 04 July 2013, 23:49

Title: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: LateRomantic75 on Thursday 04 July 2013, 23:49
A very exciting upcoming release: http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-No-6-Adolphe-Samuel/dp/B00CPCENQI/ref=sr_1_24?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1372977059&sr=1-24 (http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-No-6-Adolphe-Samuel/dp/B00CPCENQI/ref=sr_1_24?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1372977059&sr=1-24)

Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 in D minor, op. 44; Joseph Jongen (1873-1953): Three Symphonic Movements, op. 137; Royal Flemish Philharmonic/Martyn Brabbins

This release (the second in the "Belgian Boutique" series) will mark the first appearance on disc of the music of Belgian-Jewish composer Adolphe Samuel, as well as fill a major gap in the Jongen discography. The editorial review on Amazon describes the Samuel symphony as "mystical and Wagnerian" and Jongen's Three Symphonic Movements (his final orchestral work) as "neo-impressionist". A biography of Samuel and a synopsis of his Symphony no. 6 can be found here: http://www.musikmph.de/musical_scores/vorworte/516.html#english (http://www.musikmph.de/musical_scores/vorworte/516.html#english)

I am a great admirer of Jongen's music and look forward to investigating Samuel's. Another one for the wish list! Now, how about Jongen's early, large-scale Symphony? ;)



Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 05 July 2013, 03:13
Ooh. I've been interested in this symphony for several years, and a study score of it is available from Musikproduktion Höflich of Munich (as you noted). Thank you, thank you for this news :)

Also in re Adolphe-Abraham Samuel see Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolphe_Samuel) (and those in other languages which may provide more detail.) (Unfortunately IMSLP has by him only an vocal score he prepared of Gretry's Richard, Coeur de Lion, but no compositions of his own, yet...)
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 05 July 2013, 08:04
The CD can be sampled here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/A-Samuel-Symphony-Symphonic-Movements/dp/B00D0RAOXS/ref=dm_cd_album_lnk_alt (http://www.amazon.co.uk/A-Samuel-Symphony-Symphonic-Movements/dp/B00D0RAOXS/ref=dm_cd_album_lnk_alt)
Great spot, by the way! Many thanks!
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 05 July 2013, 13:51
I've downloaded the Samuel symphony and at first acquaintance it's quite a strong piece IMHO. It's powerfully orchestrated, clearly but not slavishly in the Wagnerian manner, which maintains the dramatic interest needed to succeed as a programme symphony. None of its movements outstays its welcome, but I'm not sure whether melody is Samuels' strong point. Time will tell, but I'll certainly be giving it a few more listens. The work has an interesting history: it began as his Second Symphony in 1846, was re-orchestrated as his Fourth in 1863 and finally emerged, rewritten as a programme symphony (it tells the story of Genesis, no less), as his Sixth in 1889! Is this a record of some sort, I wonder? Actually, I have no idea what remains of its first incarnation in its last, but it would be a very considerable achievement for 1845 if the changes weren't too substantial.

Thanks LateRomantic75 for the heads up!
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 05 July 2013, 16:57
I've also downloaded the piece and my reactions are much the same as Mark's. I tend to think that these true programme symphonies generally outstay their welcome - unless the composer is an absolute genius such as Berlioz or Liszt. The problem is often an awful lot of musical 'huffing and puffing' - something which works in within the shorter span of a symphonic poem, but not over the course of an entire 4-movement piece. However, Samuels' piece is actually relatively compact and has plenty of variety - although little true melodic distinction, I think. Nevertheless, I am thoroughly grateful to have been alerted to this treasurable new release and look forward, with repeated hearings, to proving myself wrong!
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 05 July 2013, 17:51
I already like it better second time round...
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: Mykulh on Friday 05 July 2013, 19:51
Mark, what is or are your source(s) of information about Samuel's Symphonies? As I am adding him to my Discography of Benelux and Swiss Symphonies, I need further details about his symphonic output. Thanks in advance.

Michael
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 05 July 2013, 23:40
Hi Michael,

Here's the link (http://www.musikmph.de/musical_scores/vorworte/516.html#english) to the Musikproduktion Höflich foreword to their pocket score of Samuel's Sixth, which seems to be the most complete source. There are some other online sources, but they all have the same, or less, information. Predictably, the latest Groves adds nothing.

As I don't have the CD booklet, I don't know the Italian tempo indication of the second movement: Eden. If anyone has it then I'd appreciate knowing it. The other movements (from the Höflich foreword) are:

I. Genesis: Allegro appassionato e tumultuoso
II. Eden: Andante
III. Caïn: Presto guerriero
IV. Lux luceat! - Laus et jubilato: Allegro solenelle e brillante
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: Mykulh on Saturday 06 July 2013, 01:08
Thanks, Mark. Very helpful source. There seems to be nothing more comprehensive online.
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 06 July 2013, 15:13
I and others I'm sure will try to find out what I can about  Samuel's other music including the other 5-or-more symphonies soon. Cheers :) There is a Mass Op.53, I know.
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 11 July 2013, 01:51
Well- According to Fétis (1880) (these works not nec. published at the time, though at least one had been performed in September 1869, if I am reading right...)-
Symphony no.1 in A;
Symphony no.2 in A minor;
Symphony no.3 in E minor;
Symphony no.4 in D minor;
Symphony no.5 in B-flat.
(Sym.6, published 1891, probably? also composed post-1880?)
2 string quartets mentioned by Fétis, in E-flat and in B minor.
Also quite a few other works (vocal, dramatic, orchestral and otherwise.)

(Some 14 libraries have the Höflich score, a few more the first edition score, so anyone with access to the score as against just the preface should just be able to look at it, turn a few pages and find out the tempo indication for the Eden movement. Cornell isn't on that list (yet), though if Lincoln Center Library New York is, I'll see about that next I'm in that area :) )
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: Mykulh on Thursday 11 July 2013, 13:59
Thanks Eric,
   Excellent sleuthing. Combining this with what I've found elsewhere, Samuel's symphonic cycle looks something like this:

Symphony No. 1 in A major, Op. 8 (1846)
Symphony No. 2 in A minor, Op. 9 (1847)
Symphony No. 3 in E minor, Op, 28 (1858)
Symphony No. 4 in D minor, Op. 33 (1863)
Symphony No. 5 in B-flat major, Op. 35 (1869)
Symphony No. 6 in D minor, Op. 44 "Genesis" (1891)
Symphony No. 7, Op. 48 "'Symphonie Mystique - Christus" (1894)

If anyone has corrections or additions, I'd love to hear about them.

Michael


Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: minacciosa on Monday 15 July 2013, 19:28
That Jongen work is absolutely great. I believe it is also his final completed opus.
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: LateRomantic75 on Monday 15 July 2013, 19:50
Quote from: minacciosa on Monday 15 July 2013, 19:28
That Jongen work is absolutely great.

I'm not surprised (in a good way, of course). Nothing I've heard that came from Jongen's pen has less than impressed me-he had the uncanny ability to make quantity and quality co-exist in his huge output. He is one of my very favorite unsungs :)
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: Manangy on Tuesday 10 September 2013, 15:28
Note to Mark, et al:

The second movement of Samuel's sixth symphony -- Eden -- is marked "Andante."
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 10 September 2013, 15:53
Welcome Manangy, and thank you.
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: sdtom on Wednesday 11 September 2013, 19:11
I'm also interested in this CD but Amazon is out of stock right now.
Tom
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: petershott@btinternet.com on Wednesday 11 September 2013, 22:21
I understand, Tom, that the Samuel disc is not released in the UK until 8 October. Be patient!
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 11 September 2013, 22:53
I'm waiting for the CD release too...
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: DennisS on Thursday 26 September 2013, 13:19
Have just this morning received my copy of this CD from jpc.de. In view of the positive comments on this CD, I am looking forward to listening to it later today.
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 26 August 2016, 22:22
I have just dug this CD out again after three years. I suppose the interest of the Samuel symphony lies in its Lisztian/Wagnerian idiom - very 'New German' indeed - rather than any particular melodic distinction. Still, it's a fascinating piece from a composer of Raff's generation (although he obviously lived longer). Oh, and its given a very well prepared and exciting performance by Brabbins and the Royal Flemish Philharmonic. Can Brabbins do anything wrong these days?
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: UnsungMasterpieces on Saturday 29 August 2020, 21:23
I've just listened to Samuel's 6th symphony as well. It sounds Wagnerian indeed, take for example the part around the 1:45 mark in the first movement.
I've also done some "sleuthing" and found this:

https://www.svm.be/content/samuel-adolphe

It's a biography of Adolphe Samuel, but it's in Dutch.
It also gives an insightful description of Samuel's 7th symphony, which is composed in five movements and would last around 90 minutes.
A performance in Cologne was conducted by Franz Wüllner, and one of the people present was Eugène Ysaÿe.
He would conduct it two months later in Brussels.
I haven't found a recording yet, does anyone know of one?
Title: Re: Adolphe Samuel (1824-1898): Symphony no. 6 and Jongen: Three Symphonic Movements
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 31 August 2020, 01:51
Fairly sure that there's practically nothing else by him on recording, but I could be wrong. The 7th symphony "Mystique- Christus" (composed 1894, manuscript (copy? "schetsen" - sketches) @ Artesis Plantijn Hogeschool according to Worldcat) does seem intriguing though. (Wouldn't expect a recording soon of course.)

The score of the 6th symphony is commercially available from MPH but I expect much of his music may be hard to find anywhere at present outside of the Belgian KBR library. Worldcat lists the MPH score of the 6th (also someone seems to have the original Schott 1884 score...), and some songs and choruses as published, and the Mass in D minor (for men's or women's, e.g. equal, voices, and organ) op.53 (@ Brigham Young University, published by Muraille of Liège) (holdings of the songs & choruses at the French National Library and, again, in the library of Artesis Plantijn Hogeschool in Antwerp). (Worldcat also lists some manuscript works, eg the 7th symphony as mentioned,...).

He also seems to have edited an edition of Grétry's music, I see. Interesting.