What are some of members' favorite unsung tone poems? Mine are:
-All of Karlowicz's are fantastic, and Anna and Stanislaw Oswiecim is probably my favorite among them. In my view, he was one of the greatest "tone poets" ever. He has often been compared to R. Strauss, but I prefer the Pole's music to the German's.
-Melartin: Traumgesicht. Discovered this masterpiece thanks to the generosity of our own mjkfendrich. A truly riveting work, full of drama and atmosphere.
-Bax: Tintagel. Maybe not that "unsung", but hardly oft-performed. It's a perfect marriage of Wagnerian chromaticism and Debussian atmosphere.
-Cuirlionis: The Sea and The Forest. Absolutely gorgeous impressionist works. It's a pity Cuirlionis didn't compose more (but apparently he composed a Symphony!).
-Novak: De Profundis: A powerful wartime work with a strong sense of defiance and tragedy. The implementation of the organ into the orchestral texture is quite effective. His Toman and the Wood Nymph is an atmospheric, tuneful work showcasing Novak's lighter side.
-Suk: A Summer's Tale. All Suk's tone poems are masterful, but A Summer's Tale is especially wonderful in its rich Mahlerian glow.
-Atterberg: Alven. Following the trajectory of a river akin to The Moldau, Alven is a sumptuous work which includes a surprisingly modernistic section (for Atterberg) which depicts the hustle and bustle of the harbor.
-Reger: Four Bocklin Tone Pictures. This work immediately dispels any notions that Reger was a "dry" or "academic" composer. The Hermit Playing the Violin movement is especially atmospheric and haunting.
-Zemlinsky: Die Seejungfrau: Zemlinsky's masterpiece IMO, a magically lush work with masterful orchestration and a beautiful soprano solo.
-Marx: Eine Naturtrilogie: As one Amazon reviewer so aptly put it, this work is like "Strauss without the bombast". A superbly evocative work all-around.
-Oskar Lindberg: Hemifran. A melancholy, nationalistic work in the vein of Rachmaninov or early Sibelius. Lindberg's From the Great Forests is another lush tone poem in spirit of Alfven and Atterberg.
-Biarent: Trenmor. A darkly dramatic tone poem by one of Belgium's greatest composers. A captivating work from start to finish.
-Raitio: Antigone. Raitio composed some of the most vibrantly colorful and viscerally exciting music of the early 20th century. His music is filled with a Scriabinesque voluptuousness, and a primal, Nordic power foreshadowing what Tveitt would write later on.
-Koechlin: Le Docteur Fabricius. Koechlin's music is imbued with a great visionary power, not least this transcendent, mystical work which is one of the masterpieces of musical Impressionism.
Mine:
Balakirev: Tamar
Glazunov: The Sea
Schoenberg: Pelleas und Melisande
Converse: The Mystic Trumpeter
Herbert: Hero and Leander
Rimsky-Korsakov: Night on Mt. Triglav
Any reasons, please? Otherwise this is going to be another list-fest >:(
Zemlinsky "Die Seejungfrau" has no soprano solo (I have heard three recordings and two live performances).
Quote from: alberto on Sunday 01 December 2013, 15:12
Zemlinsky "Die Seejungfrau" has no soprano solo (I have heard three recordings and two live performances).
Don't know where I got that idea! ::) And lucky you to have seen two live performances of it!
Re edurban's post: Great choices! The Schoenberg isn't so "unsung", but it is one of my very favorite tone poems and hardly ever performed. The Converse is a great work, as is his Flivver Ten Million, which includes some novel orchestral sounds (including car horns, IIRC). Two other American tone poems I love are Henry Kimball Hadley's shimmering The Sea and Louis Adolphe Coerne's swashbuckling Excalibur.
I think of Loeffler's La Mort de Tintagiles and A Pagan Poem as the strongest musical examples of the Symbolist aesthetic in America, to my taste more dramatic and melodically inspired than the decorative and rather pallid music of Griffes, which has gotten far more attention, perhaps because he's American born and his piano sonata places him on the cusp of modernism, an aural transition from art nouveau to art deco.
I just got done listening to "Vox Maris" and Enescu does tell an interesting tale about the sea. My favorite tone poem is alas not unsung as it is Tchaikovsky's "Hamlet Fantasy Overture" but the Enescu piece does qualify. Sainton's "The Island" depicts the turbulence and the calm with thematic material that ended up impressing John Huston.
Tom
I concur with all of the above (esp. Sainton's "The Island" and Glazunov's "The Sea"). Glazunov's "The Forest" I think is likewise great (wonderful effects with the orchestra). His "Stenka Razin" is marvelous. Also,
Bela Bartok's "Kossuth" is simply superb.
Rachmaninoff's "Prince Rostislav" (a rather arresting beginning) and "Isle of the Dead" (very much in the neighborhood of "The Miserly Knight")
Rimsky-Korsakov's "Skazka" (or "Fairy-tale", of 1880, dedicated to Glazunov, which curiously points to his later compositions after the 1900s, including "Kashchey the Immortal")
Heino Eller's Symphonic Poems esp. "Phantoms"
Lyapunov's "Hashish" (a bit like Tamara, yet....)
Frank Bridge's "Isabella" and "Mid of the Night" (the latter a tad long-winded, but highly attractive).
Otar Taktakishvili's "Mtsyri" (romantic in vein, sublime, and heroic).
Arnold Bax's "Nympholept" & "In Memoriam" (the latter is definitely heart-wrenching).
Boris Lyatoshynsky's "Grazyna" (an afterthought)
The Moby Dick restored soundtrack is still available with some wonderful liner notes about Sainton's involvement.
http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.225050 (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.225050)
Tom
Sainton's The Island is certainly a very moving work-rather Baxian and hauntingly atmospheric.
Bridge's Isabella and Mid of the Night are fine works, but IMO his Enter Spring and The Sea (which I unexplainably forgot to mention in my first post) are masterpieces of the first order.
Ippolitov-Ivanov's Mtsyri is a beautiful piece of exotica, and features and ecstatically floating soprano solo.
Flor Alpaerts' large-scale tone poem Pallieter is a lush and dramatic work influenced by R. Strauss, Schreker, and Debussy.
Ernst Pingoud's symphonic poems, heavily influenced by Scriabinesque mystery, are also worth mentioning, especially La poeme d'espace.
Ludomir Rozycki's Anhelli, based on a poem Juliusz Slowacki (poem and program unknown to me) is a beautiful, rather Sibelian tone poem equal to any of those by Karlowicz
Quote from: LateRomantic75 on Wednesday 04 December 2013, 21:17
Ippolitov-Ivanov's Mtsyri is a beautiful piece of exotica, and features and ecstatically floating soprano solo.
Flor Alpaerts' large-scale tone poem Pallieter is a lush and dramatic work influenced by R. Strauss, Schreker, and Debussy.
Ernst Pingoud's symphonic poems, heavily influenced by Scriabinesque mystery, are also worth mentioning, especially La poeme d'espace.
I forgot about Bridge's other works you'd mentioned (and Ippolitov-Ivanov's). I got to check out Alpaerts and Pingoud (hope I find them on Amazon). Thanks for the mentions.
I should have also mentioned Boris Lyatoshynsky's "Grazyna" which I customarily play alongside Bartok's "Kossuth" and Rachmaninoff's "Prince Rostislav." It's Scriabinesque in its mysticism (with an arresting funeral march towards the end).
Quote from: LateRomantic75 on Wednesday 04 December 2013, 21:17
Ippolitov-Ivanov's Mtsyri is a beautiful piece of exotica, and features and ecstatically floating soprano solo.
Flor Alpaerts' large-scale tone poem Pallieter is a lush and dramatic work influenced by R. Strauss, Schreker, and Debussy.
Ernst Pingoud's symphonic poems, heavily influenced by Scriabinesque mystery, are also worth mentioning, especially La poeme d'espace.
You'll have to fill me in on the recording as I've never heard it to my knowledge.
Tom
QuoteIppolitov-Ivanov's Mtsyri ...
The harmonic sequence at the opening (and recapitulation) is arresting indeed. This is the sort of opening late romantics could do so well, as Rachmaninov's second concerto or Beach's piano quintet. After the opening Ippolitov-Ivanov is not ashamed to show his love of Balakirev and Borodin (though without matching Balakirev's or Lyapunov's contrapuntal skills) but none the worse for that affection, with attractive melodies and opulent textures galore. Thanks for reminding me of this most enjoyable piece.
Bax's November Woods displays a quite different level of compositional mastery -- and poetic complexity. Once when the work was playing in the car, my musically unsophisticated wife surprised me by saying, "That's the kind of music I like." To be sure, she was responding to the big love theme in the middle of the work, not to the stressful complexities that surround it. Nevertheless, she showed me how strong Bax's message is, despite his sophisticated craft. I'm so glad Dave mentioned "In Memoriam," another strong score from the same fecund period.
An American tone poem that I have long admired and enjoyed is Chadwick's Tam O'Shanter. Written more or less at the same time as Elgar's Falstaff, it can boast a similar degree of compositional maturity and subtlety.
Some Pingoud tone-poems including the one mentioned were recorded, according to Worldcat, on an Ondine CD released in 1997, by Sakari Oramo and the (Finnish) Radion sinfoniaorkesteri. I vaguely think I recall a review (in Fanfare?) of the CD. Some of Pingoud's music (symphonies?) are or were in the Downloads section, incidentally.
I would indicate:
Sibelius "The Bard" Almost nobody (or really nobody IMHO) has said so much with such modest means (and time)
Liszt "Von der Wiege bis zum Grabe" : a very well proportioned piece, no space here for charges (anyway never by me ) of long-windedness, bombast or even hints of coarseness.
Saint-Saens "Le Rouet d'Onphale". Magical scoring, clarity, concision, great melodic invention.
Berwald : "Wettlauf" (I use the title in German): implacable urgency, great vision and mystery.
BTW I attended two performances of Zemlinsky "Die Seejungfrau" in different seasons (and a third one didn't take place for a conductor unalaivabilty almost at the last moment) but never I attended a single performances of one of the four above. Just I heard a live radio broadcast of the first Italian perfomance of "Wettlauf" (the four overall lenghth is inferior to "Die Seejungfrau". But , paradoxically, programming likes "the long piece", lasting half a concert; doesn't like "the short piece").
I've devoted one flash stick to favorite tone poems. Even though I have work to do on a review I took time last night to listen to Myaskovsky's "Silence," a favorite tone poem.
Tom
I admire Oskar Lindberg's symphonic poem "Från de stora skogarna" (From the great forests), Op. 18.
Imagine a winter-landscape with snow-covered pine-trees as far as the eye can see. The same landscape I can see from my window as I wite these words. I think Lindberg's brilliant orchestration combined wth the use of folk-music or self-invented "folk-music" puts him in the category og Alfvèn and Atterberg. 15 minutes well-spent time.
Morten
Quote from: sdtom on Thursday 05 December 2013, 16:56
You'll have to fill me in on the recording as I've never heard it to my knowledge.
Tom
I see Eric answered re the Pingoud CD on Ondine. In case you were also inquiring about the Alpaerts, it is available on this Etcetera CD http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00153CPOA/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1386452145&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00153CPOA/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1386452145&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70)
Quote from: sdtom on Friday 06 December 2013, 16:33
I've devoted one flash stick to favorite tone poems. Even though I have work to do on a review I took time last night to listen to Myaskovsky's "Silence," a favorite tone poem.
Tom
That's a favorite of mine as well. Another Russian tone poem I love is Gliere's
The Sirens, which is a similarly haunting score as the Miaskovsky.
The Belgians must've had a talent for writing beautiful tone poems-in addition to the Biarent and Alpaerts works there is also Paul Gilson's
The Sea and Arthur Meulemans'
May Night and
Pliny's Fountain.
The thread is fast becoming a list of personal favourites. It would help if members could give reasons why particular pieces stand out from the crowd and qualify for the label 'great'.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Saturday 07 December 2013, 22:33
The thread is fast becoming a list of personal favourites. It would help if members could give reasons why particular pieces stand out from the crowd and qualify for the label 'great'.
It was my mistake to include the word "great" in the thread title! I actually intended this thread to
serve as a discussion of personal favorites. Threads that debate "greatness" are rather pointless IMO. Apologies for the misunderstanding!
It's a bit late now...
Quote from: Alan Howe on Saturday 07 December 2013, 23:17
It's a bit late now...
Never too late, surely! And churlish to say the least to imply thereby that it's the fault of the OP that this thread became a list of lists since it is a regular event! I don't think any apologies are necessary from lateromantic75, if contributors don't follow the unspecified but well known guidelines its hardly his/her fault - but this HAS been an fascinating and inspiring thread.
Quote from: khorovod on Sunday 08 December 2013, 02:08
...this thread became a list of lists since it is a regular event!
It isn't a regular event. In any case, threads like this stand in constant need of arguments to back up mere assertions. List-making is lazy; asserting that one likes something without even bothering to offer a reason or two is beyond lazy. So, thinking caps on, gentlemen, please....
Well if "threads like this stand in constant need of arguments to back up mere assertions" that suggests it is a regular occurrence... But we digress.
It's a tendency which we have regularly to counter. Mostly successfully...
My goodness, is it really that much of a problem? ::) Thanks for the kind words, khorovod. This has the potential to be a fascinating thread and shouldn't be subject to such scrutiny by the moderators. I wish I could say this nicely, but I just can't.
Our ruling is simple: some form of explanation/opinion as to the choice of tone poem offered is implied by the title of the thread. So, grateful thanks :) to those of you who have spent the time to tell us why you think a certain a piece is "great".
So, back to tone poems + reasons, please....
Alan is right. There is little value to you in my telling you that I like something - all it tells you is that I like it, and you know nothing about me and my preferences. There's much more value in my telling you why I value it, because then you can judge whether you might value it too.
As for this or any other thread being subject to scrutiny, every thread and every message is read by us. That's what moderators have to do to keep the board spam and libel-free, and discussions on track to the eventual benefit of all. It appears to be a pretty thankless job at times...
I just received my download yesterday of the new Chandos release "Overtures from the British Isle." Included is a work from yet another composer I'm not familiar with, Frederic Austin. His work The Sea Venturers caught my attention and I was quite taken by the precise way he wrote it. I also read in the liner notes that he composed a symphony in E. I'm assuming that some of you are familiar with this work as well as his sea overture. The sea piece sounds like it fits quite well into the romantic era.
Tom
There's a short thread on Austin here (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,931.0.html), from which you'll see that his Symphony has also been recorded.
I find lists helpful( :)0,. because enjoyment of a piece of music is (to some extent, at least)subjective. However, I like 2 things:
1. Agreeing with Alan, I find people giving reasons for their enjoyment/enthusiasm/thinking a worthwhile piece of music sometimes even MORE helpful than a bare list.
2. However, just BECAUSE tastes vary, within the remit of the music covered on this site, I think lists are good because there is no value judgement other than it being in the list in the first place(which you could well argue IS a value judgement); so , having to make up your mind anyway, sometimes, from a bare list, without specific descriptors of musical worth, is just as effective way of getting into new music you wouldn't have otherwise heard of!.
So I am not siding against you Alan, but seeing both sides!I think it is a complex , circular argument:with at its core, whether you think a list is more subjective or an explanation of a work's musical merits(this site is, after all, anti-canonic)is more subjective.I have re-joined this site after quite a long absence(ex pseudonym, Steve B); I was not thrown off it but came to an amicable agreement with Mark!I really LIKE this site-it is absolutely unique in its cultivation of unknown Romantic composers:); however, looking at a lot of threads, I keep seeing admonishments against lists
Sorry, the post wouldn't let me finish!
So re not allowing lists-I find this disheartening. If it were the only feature of the forum , it would of course be boring, but it is one of many brilliant features!:) Hope u take in the spirit it is meant; as compliment(point 1 in previous post) and CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. That said, if no lists is in the UC guidelines, I will drop my point and abide BY those guidelines!. Thanks for a great Forum; I have seen over the last 2 weeks all the good stuff I have missed for about 2 years!x Steve
Steve, welcome back. There is no ban on lists per se. You have summarised the arguments for and against but, particularly when it comes to those lists along the lines of "if you like this, then you'll like...", I feel bound to say that we three moderators, Alan, semloh and myself, will continue to steer threads away from lists for the very reasons which Alan has explained several times over in several threads: the fact that you like or recommend a piece of music tells me, the reader, nothing about why you like it it, and it also tells me nothing about you, so that I can't judge whether a recommendation from you in the future is one upon which I can rely. If, however, you explain why you rate a piece, it not only gives me an idea whether I would also like it, it tells me something about your criteria, which is very useful when you next recommend something. Of course it takes more effort, but I think in the end everyone benefits.
We have settled on a policy of not allowing lists mainly because we have been subjected to inordinate list-making in the past and, quite frankly, it is extremely tiresome to have to trawl through them because - as you will realise - we have to read everything. So, all we are asking is that members take time to tell us why they have mentioned a certain piece. So, for example, in this thread we don't want see long (or short) lists of tone poems without some form of explanation as to why they have been chosen. This seems to us the bare minimum for there to be any form of meaningful discussion - and that is what UC is: a discussion forum.
BTW, welcome back.
I see the Dutton release on his material and I think I'll purchase it. The "Sea Venturers" have peaked my curiousity.
Tom
Thanks Mark and Alan; nice to be back:)Ok, no problem. I shall go with that.Thanks:). Best wishes, Steve
Since Victor Herbert's HERO AND LEANDER hasn't been mentioned since the first page, I can give some justifications for it being considered a "great" work. The melodies and orchestration are absolutely breathtaking, and Herbert himself had a great affection for the love theme which forms the central section; he even occasionally signed autographs with that as an incipit. It's altogether too brief for me, though it's beautifully proportioned, and without the questionable libretti he was usually saddled with (I have to say Herbert, though a very effective musical dramatist, had less literary judgment than any other successful theatre man I've ever seen) his sense of purely musical drama has a chance for full expression. The first time I heard the work in the old Karl Krueger recording, it brought me close to tears. Now someone has to record his Suite Romantique, for crying out loud! (and NOT Keith Brion.)
Three superb and unsung tone poems are Saint-Saens' Phaeton and Jeunesse d'Hercule and Chausson's Vivienne. It seems to me that the entire realm of tone poems is being pushed out of concert halls, we are left with the consolation of recordings. The recordings of Dervaux of the Saint-Saens four tone poems remains the finest, in my opinion, particularly the splendid Phaeton.
In my opinion -- humble only on Thursdays -- two unsung composers whose tone poems are works for the ages are Suk ("A Summer's Tale", "Ripening", "Epilogue") and Vítězslav Novák ("In the Tatras", "Eternal Longing", "Lady Godiva", "De Profundis").
I enthusiastically agree with the assessment of Suk and Novak's work.
Indeed, they are, along with Tchaikovsky, Sibelius, and Karlowicz, among the greatest "tone poets" IMHO. (Never cared much for R. Strauss' music.)
Oops, forgot to include Bax in that honorable company...
Suk, Novak, Karlowicz - for me that just about sums up the best in late romantic tone poems. Sadly, although they are fairly well covered by recordings, they are never heard in the concert hall in Australia. My impression is that Strauss and Sibelius are the tone poets of choice here.
Oddly enough, Sibelius' tone poems (with the exception of Finlandia) are not programmed with much regularity here in the US. But, then again, not much is :(...
Speaking of Bax, I played his "Christmas Eve" the other day and was reminded why I was so enraptured by it in the first place. It's truly a glorious work.
Then there's Atterberg's "Älven" which I find very enjoyable also.
Indeed, Christmas Eve is one of Bax's most underrated works. It is made all the more gloriously transcendent by its prominent organ part.
I was listening to Atterberg's Alven the other day. There are two aspects of it I find quite interesting:
1. Ironically, the harps are not utilized during The Waterfall section (at least to my ears), yet they have a prominent role elsewhere in the work.
2. As I had mentioned before, the jarringly modernistic section that is The Harbor proves that Atterberg wasn't just a hopelessly old-fashioned romantic and that he kept up with the musical trends of the times. More likely than not, he was mocking rather than respectfully emulating the sounds of the modernists in this section.
Ever since reading this article, I have longed to hear Benjamin Dale's tone poem The Flowing Tide: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Jun02/Dale_flowing_tide.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Jun02/Dale_flowing_tide.htm)
Some others that I don't think have been mentioned:
G.W. Chadwick: Aphrodite. This is not the Brahmsian/Dvorakian Chadwick of the Second and Third Symphonies. This is a bold, impressionistic work which shows Chadwick was aware of current trends.
Jan Levoslav Bella: Fate and the Ideal (only on YT). This dramatic, Tchaikovskian work makes one wish Bella had written more orchestral works.
Adolf Wiklund: Summer Night and Sunrise. This is the epitome of Scandinavian late-romanticism-no surprises here.
Sir John Blackwood McEwen: Where the Wild Thyme Blows. A hauntingly atmospheric work that evokes the rugged Scottish coast.
Hans Grimm: The Way of Love and Death (only on YT). A beautiful work which, rather surprisingly, bears the influence of Impressionism.
William Lloyd Webber: Aurora. The father of the much more famous Andrew left behind a small output, and his most major work is this warmly romantic tone poem.
Ludomir Rozycki: Anhelli, Boleslaw Smialy, and King Cophetua (only on YT). Those who know Rozycki's hyper-romantic PCs will know what to expect here.
Eugeniusz Morawski: Nevermore. Morawski captures the morbid atmosphere of Poe's The Raven vividly in this work. What a terrible shame the majority of his output was lost during the bombing of Warsaw during WWII!
QuoteIndeed, Christmas Eve is one of Bax's most underrated works.
The one Bax tone poem I haven't heard. Thanks for the reference. It's on order.
I think pieces from Reger, Zemlinsky, Marx, Koechlin etc. should no more been called "unsung", especially after various recordings have been done.
Incidentally, I recorded a beautiful Francesca da Rimini by Pierre Maurice (on Sterling) and From the Book of Job by Fritz Brun (on Guild) - shall we call them "unsung" too? And the pieces by George Templeton Strong? And what about Honegger's "Le chant de Nigamon"?
LateRomantic75 wrote:
QuoteEver since reading this article, I have longed to hear Benjamin Dale's tone poem The Flowing Tide: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Jun02/Dale_flowing_tide.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Jun02/Dale_flowing_tide.htm)
I've uploaded a recording of this broadcast. It's not an especially good recording by today's standards. If someone has a better copy, by all means, upload it.
Despite the MusicWeb review, even a pristine recording, I fear, would not encourage me to add it to the recommendations in this thread. But others might like it better than I.
Thanks very much for uploading this, which I do look forward to hearing. Judging by your comments I might be in for a disappointment, but Dale's magnificent Piano Sonata does raise one's expectations about the rest of his output.
Well, my tastes in music do not always coincide with others, and I'm just an amateur, so I am no arbiter of quality. I'm happy to contribute what I can, though.
Hmm. Well, the piece, at the very least, is an extremely pleasant listen. It is modestly tuneful and expertly orchestrated in a colourful manner reminiscent of Ravel, although without any of his more piquant touches. In terms of style it belongs firmly in the 1900s, although it was begun in the 1920s and not finished until shortly before Dale's death in 1943. But, for a single orchestral span it is long (32 minutes) and, to my taste after a couple of hearings, distinctly rambling. I began by thinking that a major influence was Elgar, and there is certainly an Elgarian swagger to it at first, but its episodic nature soon delivers passages of what used to be called "cowpat music", that all-purpose English pastoral style which was once so prevalent. The work ebbs and flows interminably and, no doubt if one invested more time and intellect in unravelling it, the passing scenery would make more sense, but I'm afraid that I'm left feeling that it would have been much better if Dale had been less self-indulgent and had edited it down to, say, 20 minutes. It's neglect after the first performance speaks volumes. Maybe had he lived he would have compressed it into something truly impressive.
There's a long and very interesting article about Dale and The Flowing Tide at MusicWeb International here (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2002/Jun02/Dale_flowing_tide.htm).
Used to hate the very idea of tone poems , I think (I have never cared for the over-representational variety, and thought they all were- I will thank Alan Walker's Liszt biography for completely setting me straight about that, if I'm not sure that it hadn't started earlier.) So I've had a late start and don't know nearly as many by sound, though I've run across quite a few in score (full or reduced, - or parts, for that matter) (e.g. @ IMSLP) and while understanding that 95% of them are bound to be (insert Sturgeon's law here &c) - am hoping to hear enough more to make a better judgment. (I have heard several of the standards and even the "better-known unsungs", some by Bax, Karlowicz (I think I have...), Rozycki, several composers represented on the download/upload boards here - + also concert overtures, and concert overtures may or may not belong in this category (I forget???)... (if they do, well, I especially enjoy Fuchs' overture Das Meere und D. Liebes wellen, for instance...) - but - well... no, not in a position to make satisfactory recommendations... now, anyways. (Later, Henrik, later.)
Saint-Saens' Phaeton is one of the great unsung tone poems. Beautifully organized, and very exciting, there is this gorgeous central section depicting the Sun chariot soaring across the heavens- it has been recorded occasionally, often played too fast. The Pierre Dervaux recording, which I find to be the best, is available on an EMI disk entitled the "Best of Saint-Saens" which is a collection of what EMI had in their archives, in this case quite a number of wonderful recordings. Oddly the Dervaux recording of La jeunesse d'Hercule is not included, another superb tone poem and the longest of Saint-Saens' four. All four were issued together on an Angel LP, and beautifully played by the then relatively new Orchestre de Paris. Chausson's Vivienne is also very beautiful -arresting themes and orchestration and has a marvelous conclusion where the sorceress Vivienne puts Merlin to sleep. The only recording that I know of is on Erato- a fine recording too.
Do you think that tone poems are being edged out of symphony concerts? it seems that in general, tone poems are less often played in live concerts; thank heavens for recordings!
I rarely encounter tone poems in concert these days. Unless those short pieces by modern composers qualify as tone poems. 99% of those are destined to be the unsung works of tomorrow -- eminently forgettable.
QuoteUnless those short pieces by modern composers qualify as tone poems. 99% of those are destined to be the unsung works of tomorrow
How true!
Only 99%?
QuoteUnless those short pieces by modern composers qualify as tone poems. 99% of those are destined to be the unsung works of tomorrow -- eminently forgettable.
Let us just hope that they STAY forgotten!
Well, that's just an amplified version of Sturgeon's law. I'd lower the number to 95% since I think Sturgeon had it about right, really. (And if I have a problem with many a modern work nowadays it's the indeed boring efforts at combination neoromantic/jazz eclecticism, but that really is another topic.)
I share enthusiasm with Mjmosca (post 58) for Saint-Saens's Phaeton and Chausson's Viviane (not "Vivienne").
Both are in practice never performed even in France.
Thank heaven for the recordings of course; but they are not a legion (in Phaeton's discography excels IMHO Ozawa-Emi)
Viviane has, besides A.Jordan -Erato, Plasson (Emi), Kaltenbach (Naxos), the elderly de Almeida (RCA Lp, maybe also Cd).
The de Almeida record makes me remind another very worth symphonic poem: Lenore by the tragically un-prolific Duparc (recorded by de Almeida and by the ubiquitous in French repertoire Plasson, who recorded also Duparc'a short, and worth, "Aux Etoiles").
Yes, and on that nice 1996 "tone poem recital" EMI CD with Plasson, there is also Sylvio Lazzari's "Effet de nuit", which I also wanted to record on second a full-Lazzari CD... Unfortunately, Marco Polo dropped this project at the last moment. It would have also contained a ballet suite and a symphonic march by Lazzari...
Speaking about Lenore and nocturnal hunts, there is also the very interesting "La Chasse du Prince Arthur" by Joseph-Guy Ropartz (available on a timpani CD of 2003)
Hrm. Would "Wilde Jägd" in the title of some works translate sometimes anyway to Wild Hunt as in specifically the Celtic/Faerie Wild Hunt (the one I gather is best avoided?)
Lenore of course turns up also in (or as the title of...) at least one symphony by Klughardt, a symphonic poem by Duparc and songs and ballads by Kügele and others (sometimes to Bürger's text, but sometimes based on Poe's Raven instead (Hemberger's "Lenore", published 1910) .)
Many, many thanks to Wheesht for uploading the lovely Les Veillées de l'Ukraine by Loeffler, in a superb BBC performance. I still haven't heard any music by Loeffler that I didn't enjoy.
Does this count as a "tone poem"? Maybe not 'great', I think, but certainly a fine piece.
May I make a special plea for VATERLAND by Julius Bittner, composed 1915 and premiered by the Vienna Phil under Weingartner? It received wonderful reviews.
QuoteI rarely encounter tone poems in concert these days. Unless those short pieces by modern composers qualify as tone poems. 99% of those are destined to be the unsung works of tomorrow -- eminently forgettable.
I greatly doubt if many contemporary composers would ever use the term "tone poem" ...
Atonal poem then? 8)
Brilliant.
Or serial murder, perhaps? ;)
Indeed ;D !
Chadwick's Aphrodite is a multi-movement tone poem as ambitious (and in my view as enjoyable) as Strauss's Sinfonia domestica. Chadwick's best tone poem may be Tam O'Shanter. If only one American tone poem were allowed to survive, my vote would go to Converse's The Mystic Trumpeter. But no modern recording does it justice.
really? truly? on IMSLP alone, there are at least 30? (ok, make that 17? -- ok, ok...; some are for piano or organ, we still count them) works by modern composers subtitled symphonic poem, tone poem, or something suitably similar... (and it's been a long time since most contemporary composers wrote in the "manner" that so many people here despise. That so many of them, as always, write extremely -poorly- , whatever their chosen "style" (not a very helpful way to talk about music, but... eh) - as always; Sturgeon's Law will &c - annoys me than whatever "style" it is they've chosen to flail around in... even though I suppose even less, candle-lighting-wise, can be done about it.
When did you last hear a recent broadcast work by a major contemporary composer subtitled "tone poem"? It's the same with concertos - it seems no-one writes a piece called "Violin Concerto No 1" any more - it gets called "Fractured Night" or something of that kind instead.
True. Nowadays composers can give any piece they write any title they like. The days of (easy) categorisation are long gone - except in the case of certain composers who consciously write with an awareness of the historical tradition in which they stand.
I think I've almost never heard a broadcast premiere of a piece called Violin Concerto No.1. It's usually titled Violin Concerto - when it's _premiered_ - unless Violin Concerto No.2 already exists. Sometimes the "No.1" never gets added (Benjamin Frankel's "Symphony No.1" is still titled "Symphony" on its published score, despite its 7 successors.) As to major contemporary composers, define please. I didn't hear their premieres as is part of your condition (I think I did that of Blackwood's 5th symphony, but that's a bit offtopic), but I gather Pehr Nordgren wrote 4 violin concertos, Hans Werner Henze 3 (is he major enough?) (with Violin Concerto the main titles, though at least two of them had subtitles, if I recall), Vagn Holmboe had 3 - for starters...
I think we're talking about composers active today.
Hrm. Maxwell Davies Violin Concerto No.2 (has a subtitle, yes, premiered 2008); Yasuhide Ito: "Gloriosa : symphonic poem for orchestra" (also? for wind symphony, premiered ca.1996, pub.2007); Poème symphonique n° 6 : "Espaces-Fragmentations : pour orchestre : opus 87 : 2011 by Lebanese composer Bechara el-Khoury (*1957) (and 5 preceding and perhaps more since); etc.-- and quite a whole lot of "symphonies"/"sinfonien" etc etc etc. relatively. Not a ton compared to the 19th century, but didn't expect there to be.
Oh, they're still around.
Anyway, back to the topic in hand...
I'm sure someone else has mentioned this already, but I absolutely love William S. Lloyd Webber's Tone Poem "Aurora" (1948). I like the warm harmonies and the sweeping melodies in this short, but beautiful tone poem.
I'm not sure if this is a proper place to ask this, but I bought the full score from Decorum Books through AbeBooks almost a year ago; since then, I have been trying to decipher and identify what looks to be a signature on the front cover to no avail, so I thought I could ask here.
Images here: http://imgur.com/a/pb0Ek (http://imgur.com/a/pb0Ek). The signature is located on the top right corner of the cover page, and it seems to be written using a marker(?) The only thing I can decipher is 1970, assuming it's a date - which is interesting because the first known performance/recording of this piece is made in 1986. Anyone has any ideas on what the signature might represent?
Just got the opportunity (making spine labels) to revisit Vox Maris.
Please, don't forget "Oithona ", the first mexican symphonic poem!
By Ricardo Castro. 1864-1907.