Also, thanks to britishcomposer for uploading this superbly played and very enjoyable work by Rubinstein. :)
After so many debates about Rubinstein's merits as a symphonist, I wonder what will be the reactions to this. He seems more comfortable with this format. It's colourful and superbly orchestrated, and rarely did I get the sense that he was getting lost or running out of ideas. Twenty minutes was, I think, the perfect length - and the ending is, well, 'a corker'! ;D
Let me add my thanks as well... incredibly diverse, very enjoyable large scale work by Rubinstein. Gave the impression that he was trying to capture the sounds and vastness of Russia itself, and to a certain extent succeeded. There was some borrowing (including from himself) but I agree, the piece never seemed to flag.
Interesting to compare this to musical pictures of Russia by Balakirev, Bruch, Rimsky-Korsakov and quite a few others.
One of the great things about Rubinstein is that there's always something new to discover; he was that prolific!
Thank you britishcomposer for this wonderful, lush and impressively orchestrated work, which is for me another confirmation that Rubinstein is anything but a flawed composer. On the contrary.
Ignore my post under new recordings - just seen this stream of comments after I'd posted
Richard
Yes, thanks very much for this. A very welcome surprise. I hope I don't get kicked too much if I'm honest about my impression of it as being structurally ramshackle because, if listened to not as the "symphonic piece" which Rubinstein apparently dubbed it, but as a series of interlinked musical scenes which flow one from the other (almost as a ballet score), I do also think it an attractive and successful work. I only knew of its existence from the briefest of mentions in Philip Taylor's recent biography of Rubinstein, which never hinted at its substantial length. It was apparently written to commemorate an Exhibition of Industry and Art in Moscow in 1882, and was premièred there, along with an early performance of the Fifth Symphony. Presumably Rubinstein never gave it an opus number because it wasn't published? I wonder why that was?
Having listened to this work several times now, it's clear that it's not really a coherent single 24 minute "symphonic piece" (to use Rubinstein's own description) at all, but a series of linked musical tableaux, often built around well-known themes ("God Save the Tsar". "O Tannenbaum", "Kol Nidrei" amongst no doubt many others that I don't know). As such it doesn't stand comparison with Rubinstein's comparable large scale symphonic poems (for want of a better word) like Ivan the Terrible or Don Quixote. Attractively melodic and impressively orchestrated though it is, it seems really to be just a pot-pourri on a grand scale, a pièce d'ocassion, written for that 1882 exhibition. I'm just now listening to a truly successful symphonic work by Rubinstein - his Fifth Piano Concerto - and the contrast couldn't be more telling. I think I see now why he didn't get Rossiya published!
I usually disagree what you say about Rubinstein, Mark, but not this time. I think your description of his morceau symphonique pour grand orchestre is spot-on, as I see it. However, I wonder what the real fact is why this work didn't get an opus number. Was it commercially not interesting enough for publishers? Hard to believe.
Maybe Rubinstein himself didn't feel that the work deserved to stand alongside his other major orchestral works, Peter? But on the other hand, some of his most successful works, like the operas The Demon and Nero, also lack opus numbers, and they were published.
I'm glad to have this little gem in my collection. He certainly was prolific as a composer.
Tom
I've given it six listens now and to me it sounds like a compilation of musical material from Russia. I like Mark am not familiar with some of the melodies so I wonder how much is original and how much is new material from Rubinstein. It is certainly not on the same page as Russia and others but it's a keeper for me.
Tom
Funny is the theme of 'O Tannenbaum', or in Dutch 'Oh denneboom, oh denneboom', which is in the Netherlands a children's Christmas song. Maybe in English 'Oh Pine tree, oh Pine tree'?? Obviously an international tune, but why did Rubinstein use that melody?
It might be a folktune in Russia also (or something very like it might)- that sort of thing (similarity of "folk melodies", sometimes to different lyrics, ... across international borders -etc., etc. ...) happens all the time. With or without a holiday connotation. Worth looking into...
(Actually, interesting from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_Tannenbaum) how misleading the standard English translations are of the 1824 lyrics, which do not mention Christmas, religion or anything else...)
I think it exemplifies what I said in that debate we had about his 5th symphony (?) - his orchestral works are often a kaleidoscope of expertly orchestrated, attractive musical ideas, but at best only loosely linked, and rarely with any apparent overall plan or structure. As you said, Mark this is a "pot-pourri"... but it's still an enjoyable experience if you're not looking for anything too serious.
Yes, I agree Colin.
And I cannot disagree more... but I'll rest my case.
Quote from: Peter1953 on Thursday 12 December 2013, 16:54
... but I'll rest my case.
Pity! We both agree that it is enjoyable, Peter, but we differ in that you presumably see some overall logic that lifts it above pot-pourri status (?)
I suspect that Peter is disagreeing with the overall view which some of us have that Rubinstein is a flawed composer, but I'm sure that he can speak for himself.
presumably meaning "more than usually" flawed :)
I really don't want to reopen the pro/anti Rubinstein debate but, lest I be accused of slyly Rubinstein-bashing by proxy, I had better just say that there is a lot of Rubinstein's music which I actively enjoy and believe has real, lasting merit: the piano concertos and the Konzertstück, the Demon, the chamber music with piano and many of the piano works. I called him "flawed" because I don't think he could write as successfully for more disciplined genres, such as the symphony, as he could for looser ones, or those which involved the piano.
I'll back Mark up on his analysis. That's why I couldn't ever elevate Rubinstein to the ranks of the best unsung composers such as Raff, Draeseke or Rufinatscha.
I think that he tried to do too much. Composer, teacher, concert pianist who took world tours.
Tom
Liszt did even more, but had more genius, in my opinion (while realizing he could do more if he settled in one place, at least if that was really a major reason he settled in Weimar instead of continuing his hectic concert life, as seems a reasonable guess...)
I still find the final two Rubinstein symphonies to be minor masterworks - if not precisely rigorously constructed they at least don't overstay their welcomes.
I've just listened to The Third. I don't know a more exciting, well-constructed 3rd with such impressive and memorable themes in all four movements. La Russie is indeed a potpourri of captivating melodies, but this marvellous symphony is of another dimension. Just great.
I'll take Raff 3 or Draeseke 3 over Rubinstein 3 any day. However, we're in danger of going off-topic here....
For those of you who like to compare different recordings I have uploaded an old German radio broadcast of Rubinstein's Don Quixote. Horst Neumann's take is quite energetic, the fastest I know.
Thanks, always good to have an alternative.
Apart from his Symphony no. 5 (one of his most Slavic-sounding works), and his magnificent Piano Concerto no. 5, Rubinstein is not a composer who I have been too impressed by. I'll listen to La Russie and report back with my thoughts!
Listening to this again, I find it quite engaging, even if it's indeed somewhat of a potpurri. It even seems to toss Kol Nidrei in there of all things. It seems there's no commercial recording though...
I imagine that "Kol Nidrei" is there as a nod to towards the substantial Jewish minority in Russia, from which Rubinstein himself originally came, of course. I also spotted "God Save the Tsar" and "O Tannenbaum" in the mix. There must be many other such quotes which I didn't get - anybody else able to prise some more out of the pot pourri?
Just as an off the wall thought, I wonder if this piece has no opus number because it was not intended as a serious work, but as a very direct jab at the The Mighty Handful. Rubinstein was not especially fond of the nationalist movement and was often at odds with its proponents. Moreover, the nationalists were vocally anti-Jewish and were not shy about condemning Rubinstein's Jewish heritage.
Rubinstein was noted for his sarcasm and his willingness to confront what he perceived as the misguided direction of the nationalists.
Could it be that La Russie, with it's French title for a work about Russia, it's tacked-together batch of folk melodies, and at least one very recognizable Jewish theme, was intended as musical sarcasm -- a dagger-thrust at his enemies?
Being no scholar of music history, perhaps this idea has been proposed before and discarded as silly. If so, in the words of the great music critic Roseanne Roseannadanna, "neh .. VUR ... mind."
QuoteJust as an off the wall thought, I wonder if this piece has no opus number because it was not intended as a serious work, but as a very direct jab at the The Mighty Handful. Rubinstein was not especially fond of the nationalist movement and was often at odds with its proponents.
I don't know if I'm remembering right but I feel like I read somewhere that this was written for the same celebrations of Tsar Alexander II that Borodin's In the steppes of Central Asia and Musorgsky's Triumphal March for the Capture of Kars were.
It was written to commemorate an Exhibition of Industry and Art in Moscow in 1882. According to this (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Steppes_of_Central_Asia) the Borodin at least wasn't.
Ah! Spasibo! ;D
A fitting opportunity to take a jab at the nationalists? haha