Ralph Couzens, boss of Chandos, has now made the following announcement:
Chandos is a step nearer with the first of a 3 CD set of the orchestral works of Rufinatscha. Recording of the first disc will take place later this year. Details later.
http://www.classical-mp3.co.uk/index.php?topic=37.0 (http://www.classical-mp3.co.uk/index.php?topic=37.0)
This is truly wonderful news!
Wonderful news, indeed!
Any idea who among the standing in Chandos's stable of conductors (a few wonderful ones have, sadly, passed on recently),would be involved?
Yes, but I'd rather leave it to Ralph Couzens to make the announcement. I feel that I would be breaking a confidence...
Makes perfect sense. It's just hard to wait.
The Chandos recording of Symphony No.6 will take place in early November. I will report on the sessions in due course as I have been invited to attend.
Alan, that's marvelous news.
David
Quote from: edurban on Friday 01 October 2010, 02:25
Alan, that's marvelous news.
David
I agree and I only know the music so far from the little reduced score excerpts printed in the Allgemeine musikalische Zeitung (probably not PD-EU, but for such as can see them, the link is here (http://books.google.com/books?id=2mEPAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA9)- the context was a review of the 2-piano reduction of the symphony when published ca. 1872?... the review is liberally sprinkled with music excerpts. They do look good but I agree that's not much to go by- I look forward to the CD.)
Eric
Wonderful that a professional label is recording Rufinatscha. This can be a great opportunity to broadcast Rufinatscha's delightful 6th in many countries. Classical music lovers will be very pleasantly surprised. Many listeners will probably recognize an unknown masterpiece.
The 6th Symphony will apparently be recorded separately for the BBC before the Chandos sessions, so there should indeed be a radio broadcast sometime next year.
Alan, it would be great if you write the booklet notes.
I was asked, but suggested to Chandos that a professional should be approached...
Quote from: Alan Howe on Wednesday 27 October 2010, 10:51
I was asked, but suggested to Chandos that a professional should be approached...
Taking professional not too literally and restrictively I suppose as the Rufinatscha professionals have their own CDs to "hawk" ;)
The BBC have been in touch about the studio performance of R6 on Friday this week, so all is set, it seems, for the recording itself next Monday and Tuesday. More news in due course...
I'm privileged to be going to the BBC studio performance this Friday in Alan's stead (thank you Alan) and will report on it once I get back from Manchester.
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Monday 01 November 2010, 17:50
I'm privileged to be going to the BBC studio performance this Friday in Alan's stead (thank you Alan) and will report on it once I get back from Manchester.
Enjoy, and looking forward to the report!
(Hope someone will republish the score soon too...)
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Monday 01 November 2010, 17:50
I'm privileged to be going to the BBC studio performance this Friday in Alan's stead (thank you Alan) and will report on it once I get back from Manchester.
I'm usually not a jealous man - but today, that's different...
QuoteI'm privileged to be going to the BBC studio performance this Friday in Alan's stead (thank you Alan) and will report on it once I get back from Manchester.
I hate you for ever!!!
Thank you, friends! ;)
Make sure you have a copy of the score with you so that you can let them know if they go wrong. :)
Well, the BBC studio performance of R6 has now taken place and I understand from Mark Thomas that it was a great success. Watch this space...
Indeed it was a great success. We can look forward to stunning performances of the Sixth and the Bride of Messina Overture on CD if yesterday's concert recorded for radio is anything to go by. Inevitably one compares it with the Tirolean recordings: Noseda shaves a mighty ten minutes off Siepenbusch's hour long performance of the Symphony, half of that coming from the opening movement. I don't think that there were any cuts, it was just much tauter, much more dramatic and, of course, faster overall although there was plenty of tempi contrast within the framework of a movement with much more propulsive momentum than Siepenbusch gives it.
I didn't notice great differences in the performances of the Scherzo but I suspect that too had more urgency. The Largo third movement was beautifully done, invested with real Elgarian nobility. It too moved forward with purpose but Noseda brought out it's subtly varying moods to much greater effect than we get from the Tiroleans. After three string-dominated movements (more obvious with the BBC Philharmonic's much larger string section), the blaze of brass in the Finale was tremendous. If anything Noseda's way with this movement was the greatest improvement over Siepenbusch. Again, it was given real momentum - I was reminded of Glazunov's Fifth. Another couple of minutes were chopped off here to beneficial effect, so we ended up with a 50 minute Symphony but of even greater stature than I had thought it had from the CD. Certainly the 200+ strong invited audience, who clearly from the pre-recording chatter, had had no idea what to expect when they came into the studio, left it very enthusiastic about Rufinatscha. I heard several talking about making sure that they recorded the radio performance or bought the CD.
The Overture got a similarly taut and dramatically well thought through performance. The BBC Philharmonic are a fine orchestra, they played as if their lives depended on it but with real feeling for the nuances of the score. Noseda's interpretations of both works were thoroughly convincing and, as you can tell, I was hugely impressed.
Mark, your description of this great happening really gives me the goosebumps. I'm sure that we're all looking forward to the release of the Chandos disc with Rufinatscha's overwhelming Sixth. Also very good to learn that so many people of the audience were delighted. There is now a sort of awareness and the rise of Rufinatscha as a gem under the undeservedly neglected composers is about to start...!
Thanks for the write-up, Mark. Great stuff. Now for the Chandos recording sessions themselves on Monday and Tuesday...
At last the discovery of a truly unsung master! Hopefully this will bring attention to the 5th and other surviving symphonies, as well as the marvellous PC! Wouldn't it be grand to see these works added to the standard repertory of major orchestras the world over, bringing attention not just to Rufinatscha, but raising awareness that there are so many others just like him still awaiting their place in the sun?
Indeed it would, Jim.
And in case friends haven't been paying attention, the CD will include the overture The Bride of Messina and the conductor is to be Gianandrea Noseda with the BBC Philharmonic Orchestra (i.e. the same combination as on the recent Chandos/Casella disc).
Well, R6 is in the can, as they say - and the Chandos CD should be out in the UK at the beginning of April 2011. A longer report will follow when I have recovered from dashing around the country!
Well, here's my report on the recording sessions:
The recording took place in Studio 7 at the BBC in Manchester. I was permitted to observe from the recording room from which one can see into the studio itself - i.e. a side-on view of orchestra and conductor.
The Symphony was recorded in about 60 takes spread over nearly a day and a half. Noseda was clearly 100% committed to the project and very enthusiastic about the music - as I discovered when, to my delight, he came into the recording room to listen through to his longer takes immediately after they were finished. He is also open to unsung music, as I shall make clear later.
Anyway, to the Symphony itself. As Mark has already reported, Noseda's interpretation is a lot more fiery and fleet of foot than that of Seipenbusch in the Austrian performance available from Innsbruck. The BBCPO are also, as one might expect, several notches above their Bratislava counterparts, the Capella Istropolitana, in quality, mainly in terms of the sheer sonority of their string section. The question of repeats was obviously hammered out over the period between the BBC performance given before an invited audience last Friday (which Mark attended) and the recording sessions on Monday and Tuesday. On Friday Mark had in fact heard no repeats in either the first or last movements (which, taken together with the faster tempi in I and IV, had shaved around 10 minutes off the Austrian performance); however, the recording will preserve the repeat in the former while still omitting the one in the latter. So, my guess is that Noseda will come in at around 5-7 minutes quicker than Seipenbusch.
The orchestra was simply superb - although they did groan when told that they would in fact be doing the repeat in I! This obviously meant a later cup of coffee! Nevertheless, they were tireless in their commitment to the music and to getting the awkward passages right - at the insistence of Noseda or, more often, the recording team.
Noseda is a delightful man. In his mid-forties, tall, slim and abundant in gestures as a conductor, he constantly addressed the orchestra as 'dear artists' before going on to demand even more of them. They plainly love him. And he, equally plainly, has love and respect for his fellow-musicians: the first flute, Victoria Daniel, was very unwell, especially on the second day, and Noseda was very concerned for her welfare. A prolonged break enabled her to recover somewhat, but he was evidently very worried about her - and not just because there was a recording to complete.
The Bride of Messina overture - in effect a tone poem - will, I gather, be the first item on the CD, with Symphony No.6 to follow. It is due out in the UK on April 1st (!) next year.
I mentioned Noseda's openness to unsung music. You see, I had gone to Manchester armed with a copy of the full score of Draeseke 3 in the hope that I might be able to interest him in the work. Well, the opportunity arose at lunchtime on Monday - and so I duly presented him with the score. He had never heard of Draeseke (nor had any of the recording team!), but he accepted it with obvious interest. After all, if he was now recording Rufinatscha which I had been responsible for bringing to his attention via Ralph Couzens at Chandos, perhaps this was another piece that he should sit up and take notice of. We shall see.
All in all, then, a wonderful and inspiring experience.
A tremendous and heartening report Alan. I happily plead guilty to not noticing the lack of repeats in the outer movements!
Well done Alan! Now I wonder if we could interest him in Franz Lachner too! :)
Let's see if we can get anyone interested in the PC! If Schoch would be willing to take it on the road, it could get some attention from other soloists!
Don't worry, Chandos are planning two more CDs of orchestral music, including the PC.
I look forward to this. His music did not move me initially, but now after a couple of sessions it does. Maybe he is not an instant gratification composer, but an acquired taste.
I long for a top notch recording of the PC. Now that I have played through it, I love it a lot more.
Thal
You are absolutely spot-on. Rufinatscha's music takes time to sink in - but when it does, I just won't leave you alone. That's why snap judgments based on initial hearings are nearly always to be avoided.
It only took me a couple of hearings, but like all the truly great composers, his music sounds like it had already been in my head and only needed hearing it to let it out. ;D
The BBC announcer who introduced the radio broadcast of the Bride of Messina overture last Friday afternoon confirmed that the Chandos CD will be coming out in April.
Splendid! Not too long to wait. Although in line with other Chandos release dates I guess 'April' actually means the very last day of April. Drat!
Almost perhaps deserving of a thread in itself, but I've now spent a week wrestling with the previous observation by JimL, viz "like all the truly great composers, his music sounds like it had already been in my head and only needed hearing it to let it out."
Seems to me that this comment is actually profoundly true, and if you dwell on it then it is puzzling.
Why is it that great music is always music that, the first time you hear it, you know (without much analysing it) that the music is spot on right, couldn't be any other way, that the progression of musical ideas is somehow both 'obvious', and yet, quite miraculously, is unpredictable given that no other than a great composer could have written it?
Maybe I'm creating puzzles where none are to be found. The puzzle came to me again last night when revisiting Brahms 1 (surely one of the greatest symphonies ever written?) Let me put the puzzle this way. Suppose a rather mediocre composer happened, rather like the proverbial monkey tapping away at a keyboard and by chance arriving at the first two acts of Hamlet, to have composed the first three movements of the symphony (OK, rather improbable, but stay with it).
Question: what are the chances of him going on to produce the final movement of Brahms 1? Absolutely zero, I'd say. And just as unpredictable as the monkey producing Hamlet Act III. And yet, puzzlingly, all the hints, all the ingredients of that glorious, heart-lifting, majestic 'big tune' that starts with the shift to C major after the extended introduction are already there or implicit in the first three movements. So in that sense the final movement is perfectly 'obvious' - and yet no-one other than Brahms and his genius could have done it. Once you've heard it you grasp that the movement and progression of ideas in it have an inevitability and just couldn't be any other way. And despite its 'obviousness' you're still enthralled many years later when you hear it for the 67th time. By that time you 'know' perfectly well what's going to happen in the crowning coda to the work, but it still knocks the socks off.
Isn't it something like this (hopelessly and clumsily expressed) that accounts for that feeling of the music already being in the head, already being familiar, and just needing the experience of hearing it to trigger off one's response to it?
It is surely that 'already being in the head' that also accounts for the 'indestructibility' of great music. Great music always survives a performance. Hear Brahms 1 performed by the Great Yarmouth Symphony Orchestra, or even in a piano reduction, and it still strikes you as great music.
What do others think of this idea that's struggling to get out here? Are there, for example, great pieces of music that are not likewise 'already in the head', not likewise with that 'obviousness' coupled with an unpredictability that only a great composer could think up? If so, I am refuted!
Apologies for rather wittering on!
Peter
Great music always survives a performance- can't agree... unless of course counterexamples are turned on their head. I'm very strongly of the conviction, anyhow, that at least some Liszt and Schoenberg is great and not just quite good, but can be ruined by a taffy-pulling or even mediocre performance. (This is related to something Schoenberg is known to have said or written fairly often- his music wasn't modern, just badly performed. He had a point, I think.) (And Mahler 5 was almost ruined for me, I think, when I first heard it- live, that time- by a performance that was only ok or even very good but not good enough - at Tanglewood, conducted I suspect - this was back in 1987, my memory's not that good- by Ozawa?)
Eric
Have you ever had this happen to you. You buy a recording of some work that you've not heard (and my collection does not contain many things where I have multiple performances), you love what you hear and then you finally get to attend a real, live performance and the dynamics and the tempos and the emphasis for particular instrumental parts is different and it's "not right" and you leave thinking what a dreadful performance it was? And the audience loved it......
Or the opposite - I recall a performance of Sibelius 2 - it must have been in the '70s - by the Minnesota under then new Maestro Skrowaczewski, which just seemed the perfect combination of the above and one which I've never forgotten and never found a recorded performance that came close.
I do think we become conditioned but I seem to have mellowed with age - and perhaps it's because I hear so much new music and so seldom go back and revisit the beloved war horses that continue to be cranked out each year during the concert season.
OK, we're getting seriously off-topic here! Where I will agree, though, is that there is a sense in which great music just seems to be somehow effortless, inevitable. That was the experience I had with R6, even when I heard it in its piano 4-hands version before the work was first recorded in its orchestral version. And then, when the recording of the orchestral version itself came along, well, for me it was a 'Brahms 1 moment', as it were. The music was now clothed in its rightful colours - it was an incredibly powerful moment. I'm not talking here about the quality of the performance or whether it was recorded live or not: it was the experience (described by Peter) of a piece of music that was simply right, spot-on, inevitable.
I agree we're seriously off-topic - and I am responsible for that. It was sparked off by an observation of JimL that seemed to be both seriously right and very puzzling. I now shut up!
Gosh if Alan's experience on hearing Rufinatscha 6 was indeed a Brahms 1 moment, well I'm liable to end up in jail for burgling the Chandos factory in the middle of the night! I've never heard a recorded performance of this symphony, and am mightily looking forward to it.
Peter
Quote from: petershott@btinternet.com on Monday 17 January 2011, 23:32Gosh if Alan's experience on hearing Rufinatscha 6 was indeed a Brahms 1 moment, well I'm liable to end up in jail for burgling the Chandos factory in the middle of the night! I've never heard a recorded performance of this symphony, and am mightily looking forward to it.
Peter
Well, unless you were at the studio performance, if you haven't heard the recording this will be a completely new work for you. Tell us afterwards if you do or don't have a "Brahms 1" experience with it.
My interest in Rufinatscha stems from the almost rabid discussions of this obscure composer and the fact that I cant find even a tiny soundclip (not even on youtube) of his music; So I am very curious as to how his music sounds. Anyone care to explain (or try to) to what composer he sounds closest to, or is it an amalgamation of various influences or is it a completely new sound world!
if not blocked (as it is for possibly valid, possibly not, copyright reasons, in some countries), go to this Google Books link (http://books.google.com/books?id=_TJLAAAAYAAJ) for the 1871-2 AMZ, specifically pages 31 and on of the 10 January 1872 issue, to see about 14? music examples in small score from the four movements of the 6th symphony- a review of a 4-hand arrangement of the score, not of a performance. Reviews of opp.14 and 15 and of a chamber work, I think, are elsewhere in the volume. (Search for Rufinatscha in the Google books search bar on the left side to find these.) From the index I think the reviewer was Selmar Bagge, a familiar name; but I'm not positive.
Don't know where to find music samples just now, no...
Eric
Restricted view only if you live outside the USA I'm afraid.
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 18 January 2011, 07:42
Restricted view only if you live outside the USA I'm afraid.
hrm, even Canada? ow.
Quote from: FBerwald on Tuesday 18 January 2011, 05:26Anyone care to explain (or try to) to what composer he sounds closest to
Schubert.
Rufinatscha's sound world is his own, especially from Symphony No.5 onwards. The 5th has an aura of solemnity that stems form, say Schubert 8 and yet sounds rather like a more mobile and lyrical counterpart to Bruckner. The 6th Symphony is comparable with Schubert 9 in scale and in its heavenly length-style repetitions, but is heavier and darker in tone. I would put it in line of descent not only from Schubert 9, but also, say, Lachner 5. It is altogether more ambitious than anything by Mendelssohn or Schumann (excepting Lobgesang, which something of a hybrid work anyway). Rufinatscha's chamber music is less intense and serious, although still quite large-scale.
However, when all is said and done, he's not a clone of anybody, which is what made me first sit up and take notice of him. He's simply a one-off.
The Chandos CD is due out in the UK on 28th March....
http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Chandos/CHAN10665 (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Chandos/CHAN10665)
When I was a wee boy at school we all used to compile charts showing how many days (or even hours!) remained until the end of term. Several decades later the habit remains, but 'end of term' has given way to 'March 28 and the release of the first Rufinatscha disc by Chandos'. It will be a red letter and flag waving day.
Whacko indeed. An experience I've never enjoyed before in my life - having Rufinatscha 6 (and Chandos to boot) in the shopping basket and then pressing 'confirm order'. Marvellous! HMV announced it, along with all other March 28 releases, on their site this morning. And the HMV price (to UK customers) is of course, £8.99, free postage, and a sturdy little cardboard box. If HMV follow their customary practice it should plop through my letterbox on or about March 25. The Deity, who clearly does exist after all, along with the sunshine, is much in evidence this morning!
Thanks for this, Peter - I've also just taken advantage of HMV's highly competitive pre-order price for the Chandos Rufinatscha. As a rule, I try not to duplicate repertoire and have really enjoyed the Tyrol recordings (which are remarkably accomplished and well-recorded for live performances), but the prospect of the BBC Philharmonic in this repertoire (plus the Bride of Messina Overture) is just too much to resist! ;D
I'm sure you won't be disappointed!
Well, my advance copy has arrived direct from Chandos and it is just as I had remembered from the recording sessions: this is one of the great unsung symphonies of the 19th century in a superlative performance and recording from Gianandrea Noseda, the BBCPO in Manchester and the Chandos/BBCPO recording team of Brian Pidgeon, Mike George, Stephen Rinker and Owain Williams.
The CD represents a substantial advance over the already very good recording available in Austria. In particular, the orchestral playing is much more polished and the performance is much more fiery - thanks to Noseda, who, by the way, hadn't listened to the Tyrolean recording before committing his interpretation to disc last year.
One of the records of the year and an absolute must-buy!
Can I bate my breath now?
I've never heard a note of Rufinatscha but I've ordered my copy. If I'm disappointed after all the hype you lot will never hear the last of it!!
Me too never heard one note by Rufinatscha. Next monday I will meet Maestro Noseda (I am a simple fan) and I would compliment him for the enterprise.
Perhaps, Alberto, you could pass on my best wishes to maestro Noseda? I met him at the recording sessions last November. If you could also ask him about Draeseke - I gave him the score of Symphony 3 - I would be very grateful...
I must say that I'm rather surprised by Chandos' claim on their web site that "The works presented here have never been recorded before."
perhaps except in 2-piano form so maybe they do have more than a picky point?
Where have you been, Eric? The 6th Symphony was recorded by whatever the Tiroler Landesmuseum calls their label in both 2 piano and orchestral versions,
under a rock? (in response to the question, not referring to the music. which I am hoping to catch if I can on BBC 3 this coming week, or before at all long. the brief excerpts in an issue of AMZ though 2-piano reduced themselves mostly and mostly incipits, were very tempting...)
I will certainly remember your wishes to Maestro Noseda, Alan.
I am a fan (I would not dare to say a full enthusiast) of Draeseke Third . I have got both the recordings by CPO and MDG.
But apart from Simphony 3 (and the couplings in the two recordings), I know only his " Sonata quasi fantasia" op.6 (I've got the MDG recording).
I see that Rufinatscha 6 is being broadcast by Radio 3 this coming Tuesday (March 22nd) at 3.05 p.m. and the overture to "Die Braut von Messina" shortly before 3 p.m. on Friday....so the uninitiated can try before they buy!
Just a quick reminder if I may: notifications of broadcast performances belong elsewhere on the forum. It helps that we all know where things are, I think.
And thanks in advance, Alberto, for passing on my best wishes and my enquiry about Draeseke...
For those of you who are curious to hear what Rufinatscha's music is like, excerpts from the new Chandos CD are available here...
http://www.theclassicalshop.net/Details.aspx?CatalogueNumber=CHAN 10665 (http://www.theclassicalshop.net/Details.aspx?CatalogueNumber=CHAN%2010665)
Yesterday late evening I met Maestro Noseda after a concert conducted by him. He exchanges gratefully wishes to Alan (Howe). He (very satisfied about the Rufinatscha) told me he has found intriguing Draeseke Third Symphony, but at present he has no plans about it.
(By the way some years ago I presented Maestro Noseda with two operatic scores for voices and piano, dating back to remote years and belonged to an amateur pianist grandmother: The secret of Susanna by Wolf-Ferrari and Siberia by Giordano. These scores are not on the top of my preferences. I presented them as a sign of esteem to a conductor often present in Torino and living (indeed when on holiday, and not touring around the world) in Piedmont, Torino's region. As "The secret of Susanna" takes place in Piedmont; Giordano spent his holidays (like Noseda) on Lake Major, Piedmont, and Siberia has association with S.Petersburg, where Maestro Noseda conducted a lot (and still conducts).
Thank you, Alberto. It's good to hear news from maestro Noseda. What a fine conductor he is!
Hi all,
This is my first post on this site which I found by accident - just what I have been looking for.
I am just listening to Radio 3 playing Rufinatscha's Symphony No.6 and wonder what your impressions are.
As a former professional musician, I have never heard of this work or composer though I have been a collector of rare nineteenth century piano concerti for several decades. I am looking forward to the piano concerto on Chandos (or Hyperion). Any comments?
is that Piedmont as in Sinigaglia's Rapsodia Piemontese? ... just to wonder. Looking forward to hearing the present and future instalments of the Chandos Rufinatscha series (indeed, will audition samples of the present one now or asap...) also, a reminder: some incipits of the Rufinatscha 6th can be seen, to follow along your listening if like me you don't have a complete score (full or reduced), in the US only for some odd reason (this latter review was written in 1872 - I'm not sure where the copyright issue is) - in a review available at Google Books here (http://books.google.com/books?id=_TJLAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA9) (and seq., at least one example for each movement. From the extremely well-known magazine Allgemeine musikalische Zeitung, vol.7?, 10 Jan. 1872 issue, pp.32-6.) - Eric
Yes, Piedmont is in Italian "Piemonte" (North-West of Italy). Leone Sinigaglia, born in Torino in 1868, Composed a "Rapsodia Piemontese" for violin and orchestra, two"Danze Piemontesi op. 31" (the first recorded by Arthur Fiedler and Boston "Pops" Orch.), and an orchestral Suite "Piemonte" op. 36 (premiered by Toscanini).Exists, at least in Italy, a CD of lieder (very Brahmsian) and romances sung by Anja Kampe (label Stradivarius).
Also Alfredo Casella was born in Torino.
Third composer from Piemonte of value is Giorgio Federico Ghedini (neo classical in style, there were some remote recordings by de Sabata and Cantelli I have got and an interesting Naxos with composer conducting).
Maybe someone has read the name of Lodovico Rocca, also born in Torino. He acquired the right for "Dybbuk", preventing Gershwin composing an opera above the same subject (another worthy opera is "Monte Ivnor").
In classical era from Piemonte came Giovanni Battista Viotti (by the way dead in London in 1824) whose Concerto n.22 (in 29!) was said to have been object of praise from Brahms (recorded at least by Stern, Perlman, Accardo, Ughi).
One daughter of Schumann, possible bride for Brahms, preferred to marry a Piedmontese Count.
I am digressing too much...
Welcome Ivorkeys!
Rather than repeat what has been said several times over on the Forum, for an impression of what others think of Rufinatscha's music I suggest that you just do a search for Rufinatscha, or skim back through this thread. I'd be very interested in your impressions of the work, though, bearing in mind that you've never heard a note of Rufinatscha's before.
The Chandos Rufinatscha CD will be available in mp3 format 4/5/11 at
http://www.amazon.com/Rufinatscha-Orchestral-Works-Vol-1/dp/B004SC9IKY/ref=sr_shvl_album_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300822404&sr=301-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Rufinatscha-Orchestral-Works-Vol-1/dp/B004SC9IKY/ref=sr_shvl_album_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300822404&sr=301-1)
At a very reasonable cost.
The Rufinatscha CD is already available for download at http://www.theclassicalshop.net/ (http://www.theclassicalshop.net/). I know, because I've downloaded it and have now listened to it a couple of times. Having been completely ignorant even of Rufinatscha's existence until I came across this blog, and having seen his name bandied about here in terms of awe and yearning, I was almost wary of finally hearing him and being disappointed. Well, I wouldn't call his music a life-changing experience, but it's certainly of sufficiently high quality to render him more than worthy of revival. On the evidence of this one symphony and a very attractive overture, I'd describe him as a sort of missing link between Schubert and Raff, with some of the former's "heavenly length" and some of the latter's harmonic and textural clarity. Anyway, thank you to introducing me to him! I'll be looking forward to future Chandos releases.
The amazon copy will be available for $8.99 US. I think I can wait two weeks :D
it's already available in MP3 format at the classical shop, Chandos' own site I think?..., Here (http://www.theclassicalshop.net/Details.aspx?CatalogueNumber=CHAN%2010665). ah. sorry to duplicate - hope the more specific link is good though.
Quote from: dafrieze on Tuesday 22 March 2011, 20:23
The Rufinatscha CD is already available for download at http://www.theclassicalshop.net/ (http://www.theclassicalshop.net/). I know, because I've downloaded it and have now listened to it a couple of times. Having been completely ignorant even of Rufinatscha's existence until I came across this blog, and having seen his name bandied about here in terms of awe and yearning, I was almost wary of finally hearing him and being disappointed. Well, I wouldn't call his music a life-changing experience, but it's certainly of sufficiently high quality to render him more than worthy of revival. On the evidence of this one symphony and a very attractive overture, I'd describe him as a sort of missing link between Schubert and Raff, with some of the former's "heavenly length" and some of the latter's harmonic and textural clarity. Anyway, thank you to introducing me to him! I'll be looking forward to future Chandos releases.
The 5th Symphony is a bit more brief, but of equally high quality. Think Schubert's
Unfinished (which is in the same key, BTW), but with Rufinatscha's distinct style (and finished, to boot). :) The PC is a real find, and should be better known.
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Saturday 06 November 2010, 07:07
We can look forward to stunning performances of the Sixth and the Bride of Messina Overture on CD if yesterday's concert recorded for radio is anything to go by.
I found the overture more instantly appealling, with the symphony harder to grasp, probably due to its length. There is no doubt in my mind (judging mostly from his overtures) that Rufinatscha deserves more attention.
I guarantee that by the 3rd listen you'll get the symphony. Guaranteed.
Jim's right. The Symphony takes a while to grasp - at getting on for an hour, that's hardly surprising. And Noseda doesn't take the repeat in the finale!! But the journey's thoroughly worthwhile.
After all, who else could have written this work? It's a clone of no other work and belongs to no particular school. It's fundamentally sui generis, like all other great music...
I don't know if I've "gotten" it yet but after a first listen to the BBC iPlayer archive (will try to hear it a couple more times before the 29th), my first encounter with his music beyond brief minute-long excerpts and what have... I like it!!... thank you all.
Today brought a cheering flurry of thuds through the letter box: Boehe (two Odysseus discs) and Reznicek (two discs of symphonic poems) from CPO and the new Chandos Rufinatscha. What a thrill to see this last item finally released - the Tyrol performance is always going to be something special but it is really wonderful to have this music presented by a top-flight orchestra and conductor and given the 'Chandos' presentation (with all the international kudos that it entails). Hearing it after listening to the Tyrol disc is like encountering an old friend who you thought had fallen on slightly hard times, and suddenly seeing them dressed to the nines paying for a large round of drinks.
With the new series set to run to three discs, this should lift Rufinatscha at last from the slough of obscurity and put him firmly on the map. Many thanks to the various members of this forum for alerting me to his music! :)
But most Kudos goes to Alan for convincing Chandos that they should put faith in Rufinatscha. You da man!
seconding (thirding? nthing?) Mark on that one. excellent - must make a point of catching it again before tomorrow. linked to the BBC page from my Facebook and etc. just because, too.
Martin Anderson's review in the April issue of International Record Review is a typically thorough and appreciative piece of work. We need more people like Martin who are capable of assessing composers outside the mainstream without prejudice.
Absolutely, Alan. He has that rare knack of being able to both describe a piece of music and infect a reader with his own enthusiasm. Many times I have read him with increasing excitement whilst stretching out to grab the debit card. Recent articles in IRR about Gunter Raphael and Paul Graener have enriched my musical life. I'm currently trying to pester the editor of IRR to get Martin to offer us a similar article on Adolf Busch - more on the composer rather than the performer, for Busch's music deserves the widest dissemination. However since Toccata have published the magnificent Tully Potter book - the book of the decade in my view and given its scholarship easily worth every penny of its price - Martin may feel not wholly impartial.
Back to the point: yes, MA's review of Rufinatscha is a good one. Having just re-read it, I'm confident it will also arouse the interest of readers of IRR who have never discovered the UC site and thus are unaware of all the clamour made here about Rufinatscha. And the more there are expressing enthusiasm about him, the greater the chance of getting good recordings of the chamber music!
Quite. And didn't I spot a letter from one Peter Shott amongst this month's must-reads in IRR?
Guilty. I'm trying every means (including this post!) to shame Decca into doing its bit for Braunfels in the UK. (And the USA for that matter). What kind of foolishness is it to have an apparently first class recording of an excellently performed important opera by a significant 20th century composer (and one whose work is wholly unblemished by mere noise and other gimcracks favoured by others less likely to stand the test of time) and then to restrict its availability to Germany? True, there's no reason why the recording can't be purchased from a source in Germany. But why should potential customers have to spend an additional amount - which then goes to postal services, taxes et al, and not to the people who produced the recording and the musicians involved? More important: I believe that if a record company takes on a work or a composer, and believes that the task is worth doing, then it should both promote and properly represent that work or composer. Just imagine the stink if Chandos decided to restrict its Rufinatscha series to the UK. A good number of people outside the UK might well then never get to know about him, let alone hear a note of his music - and that would be awful. Apologies for ranting on yet again!
I'm with you all the way, Peter.
Rant on, Peter! Good on yer!
The word spreads...
http://doctorhuw.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/johann-rufinatscha-1812-1893/ (http://doctorhuw.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/johann-rufinatscha-1812-1893/)
...and spreads:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rufinatscha-Orchestral-Works-Vol-1/dp/B004SCPJ3O/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_cart_4 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rufinatscha-Orchestral-Works-Vol-1/dp/B004SCPJ3O/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_cart_4)
http://classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=9152 (http://classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=9152)
Notice how Hodgson got Rufinatscha's birthplace wrong? "Viennese-born"?
But how right Hodgson is about the music...
He had some criticism (order of movements). But, we'll take what we can get.
Well, he's not perfect...
Another insightful review...
http://www.classissima.com/en/news/359535-vienna-before-brahms/ (http://www.classissima.com/en/news/359535-vienna-before-brahms/)
Anna Picard reviews the CD in the Independent on Sunday today. She does a reasonable job, but gets the musical idiom wrong, saying that the Symphony 'sounds like Schumann minus the neurosis and genius'. That's roughly equivalent to saying that Schumann sounds like Rufinatscha minus the grandeur and symphonic ambition. In other words, complete nonsense. Rufinatscha must be accounted like Berwald - a symphonist in his own right and to be judged on his own terms...
Here's the link...
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/classical/reviews/album-rufinatscha-orchestral-works-vol-1-ndash-bbc-philharmonic--noseda-chandos-2277598.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/classical/reviews/album-rufinatscha-orchestral-works-vol-1-ndash-bbc-philharmonic--noseda-chandos-2277598.html)
That's the biggest criticism I have of music criticism in a nutshell right there. The utter inability to say anything about the music without making a meaningless, inane statement about it in comparison to someone else's music.
Ach, Alan, you really must switch to a decent paper! I grinned at your comment, and then out of interest opened the link. What piddling nonsense!!! It's the kind of thing I dislike heartily. On account of the 'historical' remarks it pretends to a supposed authority, but in fact says precisely nothing. This kind of thing does Rufinatscha no positive harm, I suppose. But then it also does him no good whatsoever. The mildly curious might read it, mutter a none too sincere 'Hum, looks slightly interesting, maybe one day I'll have a listen if I come across the record' and then proceed straight to the gardening page. The review (or rather platitudinous burble) won't get a reader off his backside and persuade him order the thing let alone investigate it further. Rufinatscha (and Chandos) deserve better than this.
And no prejudice intended against gardening, which is a noble enough pursuit!
Anna Picard's "review" (if such it can be called) is nothing more than worthless (and, indeed, thoughtless) superficiality. Who is Anna Picard anyway - and what are her qualifications for writing about music?
Says it all - http://journalisted.com/anna-picard#tab-bio (http://journalisted.com/anna-picard#tab-bio) ;)
This is a real problem, isn't it? Instant journalism requires instant reviews and instant reviews require instant opinions. To do the job properly you've got to live with new music - listen to it repeatedly, breathe it, research it and write about it (in public, at least) with fear and trembling. My opinion of Rufinatscha - which is worth nothing - has taken about four years to form.
No wonder it's so hard to break down the barriers of the received repertoire....
Finally getting hold of a copy of the Chandos CD of the Rufinatscha 6th symphony, I was a bit nervous. There had been so many positive reviews on this Forum, so I felt I could only get disappointed... :) After the first listening, I was impressed by the symphony, but felt that I didn't really grasp the work. However, just as Jim said, after a third listening things were very different. This is indeed a masterpiece (and I know I have Alan with me on this one... ;))
A masterpiece indeed. Wait until you hear the Fifth... My favourite and a masterpiece + :)
"This could be the best Germanic Romantic discovery since the four Gernsheim symphonies" - Jeff Joneikis of Records International (http://www.recordsinternational.com/cd.php?cd=05M001).
...and more important as it falls in the (now discredited) 'Dahlhaus gap'.
Isn't there some kind of "happy medium" here between the kind of esoteric analysis/review we'd all like to see and the inevitable comparison with other composers?
I think we forget sometimes that the average concert-goer/classical record buyer has probably never taken a college course in music history, or music analysis or composition. Certainly many including myself have never even taken an advanced course in "music appreciation". We all have our favorite composers and we all know what we like to hear. Almost nobody is "into" unsung composers as we are. So when a name like Rufinatscha shows up in the cd display of new releases, they want to know "what does it sound like?" What can a reviewer say that will let me know that I'll like it and not spend 20 bucks for something that I'll hate? Does he sound like Beethoven or Schoenberg or Mahler or who? Is that so bad? I mean, minus the drivel about the dysfunctional Schumann or the bombastic Strauss or the overly simplistic Bruckner, etc ad infinitum......
Even the comparisons may not really help Mr. Average. Say that this release may be the most important since the release of the Gernsheim symphonys certainly is true and speaks well to us, but what if you've never heard Gernsheim???
Jerry
I agree and disagree. There is, of course, a need to 'position' an unknown composer in the mind of the public - but let's at least get the positioning right! 'Schubert 9 on the way to Bruckner' would have given a much better idea of R6 than some silly reference to Schumann. On the other hand, the Gernsheim reference at Records International is entirely appropriate - RI' s pitch is aimed, after all, at seekers after unsung music.
In the end, though, the problem with Rufinatscha - as with, say, Raff and Draeseke - is that we are dealing not merely with another unknown composer who wrote in the style of X, but one who actually forged his own style. In the final analysis, Rufinatscha actually defies comparisons...
Quote from: Alan Howe on Friday 06 May 2011, 15:08
'Schubert 9 on the way to Bruckner' would have given a much better idea of R6 than some silly reference to Schumann.
Bruckner doesn't sound like anyone else, nor does Berwald, but is is useful to say that Rufinatscha falls somewhere between Schubert and Bruckner, as this provides considerable information without the need for lengthy explanation.
As for Schuman, the only connexion that I can see is that they both wrote concert overtures (tone poems) based on Schiller's play The Bride of Messina.
QuoteI agree and disagree. There is, of course, a need to 'position' an unknown composer in the mind of the public - but let's at least get the positioning right! 'Schubert 9 on the way to Bruckner' would have given a much better idea of R6 than some silly reference to Schumann.
Spot on, Alan. Rufinatscha doesn't sound anything like Schumann to my ears - and if one is going to discuss his orchestration one expects a little more (and more intelligent) comment than that he seems to like the lower strings a lot!
I've had the Chandos recording for a week now. Listened through three times. At the risk of being booed off the board, I just have to say I was less than impressed. After all the build up of Rufinatscha for the past several years I was expecting to be blown away -- I wasn't. But I'm not sorry I invested the time or money. Here's another confirmation of why some music is deemed great and passes into the reptertoire, and some passes into oblivion. Not that Ruf didn't have a fertile musical mind, but if I had to sum it up in one word it would be this: rambling. The symphony is just too long to support the weak material. Only the 10 minute finale seems appropriate. Each of the first three should have been cut down by 50%. And the orchestration, while capable, never "pops". But then, that's not uncommon. Not everyone could score like Raff or Wagner. There is a lot of material, but it's hard for the ear to determine "is this connecting material or a new theme?" or is this the second theme or something else? That for me was the hardest part: what's the form. The plain-vanilla orchestration sure doesn't help the ear assimilate it one bit.
Another issue is the conducting. I can't help but think that brisker tempos, more incisive playing, more brilliance would have aided this a lot. Was Noseda enjoying this? or was this just torture to get through? The recording is generally ok, but I wish the winds, brass especially, had been more prominent.
I'm glad to have heard this, and fortunate, too. Thanks Chandos for bringing it forth. It fills in another missing piece of the symphonic puzzle in mid-century Austria. But alas, Rufinatscha will remain a footnote in musical history. This symphony can't stand up to comparison with the likes of Brahms, Dvorak, Schumann or even Raff. He belongs in the other heap with Gernsheim, Draeseke, Spohr, Volkmann, and countless others whose hard work was outdone by a lack of genius.
Sorry to disagree, the 6th is no masterpiece. :-\
Quote from: mbhaub on Tuesday 10 May 2011, 05:31
I've had the Chandos recording for a week now. Listened through three times. At the risk of being booed off the board, I just have to say I was less than impressed. After all the build up of Rufinatscha for the past several years I was expecting to be blown away -- I wasn't. But I'm not sorry I invested the time or money. Here's another confirmation of why some music is deemed great and passes into the reptertoire, and some passes into oblivion. Not that Ruf didn't have a fertile musical mind, but if I had to sum it up in one word it would be this: rambling. The symphony is just too long to support the weak material. Only the 10 minute finale seems appropriate. Each of the first three should have been cut down by 50%. And the orchestration, while capable, never "pops". But then, that's not uncommon. Not everyone could score like Raff or Wagner. There is a lot of material, but it's hard for the ear to determine "is this connecting material or a new theme?" or is this the second theme or something else? That for me was the hardest part: what's the form. The plain-vanilla orchestration sure doesn't help the ear assimilate it one bit.
Another issue is the conducting. I can't help but think that brisker tempos, more incisive playing, more brilliance would have aided this a lot. Was Noseda enjoying this? or was this just torture to get through? The recording is generally ok, but I wish the winds, brass especially, had been more prominent.
I'm glad to have heard this, and fortunate, too. Thanks Chandos for bringing it forth. It fills in another missing piece of the symphonic puzzle in mid-century Austria. But alas, Rufinatscha will remain a footnote in musical history. This symphony can't stand up to comparison with the likes of Brahms, Dvorak, Schumann or even Raff. He belongs in the other heap with Gernsheim, Draeseke, Spohr, Volkmann, and countless others whose hard work was outdone by a lack of genius.
Sorry to disagree, the 6th is no masterpiece. :-\
Strange, but the form of the first movement is quite evident to me, as is the ingenious way in which he manipulates the motives in the introduction to create his materials. I could do a schematic, but what's the point? IMHO, this is certainly a repertory-worthy work, and a damn sight better than you give him credit (or discredit?) for. I do agree with you a bit about the orchestration, though. Notice, for example that the upper strings never, absolutely NEVER play pizzicato. Not even once in any of the movements. So it does lack a bit of color. But the material, once you're able to follow it, is actually quite concise, and memorable too.
To briefly respond to Martin's post, which I entirely respect whilst disagreeing with it. Whilst I'm not one for "heavenly length" generally, it seems to me that both the length of the work and the "vanilla" orchestration flow from the material itself, which is generally speaking sober and serious, even in the scherzo. Having watched Noseda conduct this at the BBC Radio 3 recording a couple of days before it was laid down for Chandos I can tell you that he was definitely "into" the music, as were the orchestra. They were 100% committed and that communicated itself to the audience. Alan will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the Chandos recording omits the repeat in the finale (which is maybe why Martin favoured it), whilst the BBC one omitted both that and the first movement repeat. I found then, and still find, that the rather tauter opening movement which resulted was to my liking, and I was expecting to feel that the Chandos recording would be flabby by comparison. Whilst obviously its longer, it isn't and there is no drop in tension. It's just different. Rufunatscha is a "one off" and you either get him or you don't, it seems to me.
Of course, this is why we have the forum - so that disagreements can be aired and that we can learn from each other. FWIW, I completely disagree. The reason? Because I don't know of anything like Rufinatscha 6 (or 5) - nor, for that matter, Raff or Draeseke at their best (Raff 3, Draeseke 3).
The jury, of course is out. Who knows what Rufinatscha's reputation will be in, say, 10 years' time?
BTW: I'll defend Noseda too - he was most definitely enjoying the music. After all, I witnessed myself how much he loved it - I was at the recording sessions! Just for the record...
While I'm with Mark and Alan with regard to the intrinsic merit of Rufinatscha's work, I have to confess that the Chandos sixth wasn't quite the leap ahead I had come to expect; in fact it has brought me to re-assess the Seipenbach recording and see it in more favourable light than I did previously. One question to the sight readers though: does the score mention the tapering codas to the first and fourth movement or does it rather favour Noseda's approach>
I asked Noseda at the recording sessions about the final bars of the 1st and 4th movements - he simply said that his version was how he understood the score...
As for the Noseda v. Seipenbusch issue - for me, the Chandos CD tightened up the piece considerably. However, perhaps we can think about it in terms of Toscanini v. Bruno Walter?
Another footnote regarding Noseda and whether he enjoyed making the recording. I know for a fact that Noseda would simply not agree to record something he didn't implicitly believe in. As evidence I add this: although Chandos advertise the CD just issued as 'vol.1', they still have the task of submitting the scores of the music for vol.2 to Noseda for his approval. So, he's got to like the 5th Symphony and the Piano Concerto, otherwise he won't record them!
There is a positive review in the new Gramophone that I received in the post this morning. I already have my copy on order, looking forward to hearing it even more now!
:)
The Gramophone review is indeed positive, but it's a very odd review by Peter Quantrill which smacks of being so heavily edited as to border on the incoherent. Still, gift horses, mouths and at least he picks up on the Blue Danube pre-echo in the trio which I have been banging on about since I first heard the piece!
Yes it is quite oddly (badly?) written!
Peter Quantrill's review isn't a bad one, although anyone who thinks that Brahms died in the same year as Rufinatscha...
i like his symphony 6. i listened many times. i'm looking forwoard to hear more works of him.
Welcome to the forums! I am glad that you are enjoying the Rufinatscha CD! We hope that Chandos will record volume 2 in the autumn.
You can now buy this CD from emusic for $5.99.
Another review can be found here...
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/July11/Rufinatscha_orch_CHAN10665.htm (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/July11/Rufinatscha_orch_CHAN10665.htm)
I actually find the finale to be a rather more successful movement than many other symphonic finales from the period. The "big tune" is the motto theme from the first movement.
I haven't heard this new recording yet, so I cannot pass judgement on it, but I tend to be of the opinion that Franz Lachner's 5th & 8th symphonies are more interesting to listen to than Rufinatscha's 6th. This could be due to the contrapuntal nature of some of the movements and more colourful orchestration.
I have learned to appreciate Lachner's contribution to the symphonic literature, but I'm certain in my own mind that Rufinatscha is the more original composer. Of course, he is half a generation later than Lachner, so comparisons are maybe inappropriate...
At long last, I finally got this CD just about a week ago. To me, the highlight ends up being a work I'd never heard before: Die Braut von Messina. This ends up being somewhat bizarre and a touch rambly (not necessarily in a bad way). The orchestration is, as with all Rufinatscha I've heard, rich and complex without being overly syrupy or bombastic, and even at its harshest moments doesn't offend my ears. I especially like the last 2 minutes or so, it's quite dramatic and exciting. This is a work definitely worth hearing.
The Symphony #6 was already one of my favourite symphonies, and I thought with Chandos we'd get exceptional audio quality. Yep, they delivered, as usual. What I'm not so sure about is the performance. The orchestra demonstrates superior clarity to the world-premiere recordings from the Tiroler Landesmuseen, and this is not just about the great audio quality from Chandos. I really like orchestral clarity, where individual parts are more easy to pick out. But to be honest, there are certain elements to the original recording that I prefer, but it's really hard to put my finger on.
I'd rarely ever think that having two recordings of the same work is necessary, but in this case, if someone has the money, I'd probably recommend getting both. The orchestral clarity and overall sound quality from this Chandos disc is just excellent, and it gives a chance to get a more clean and nuanced "view" of Rufinatscha's extraordinary orchestral abilities. The orchestral terrain that he lays down would be worth exploring even if he completely lacked any gift for melody, climax, &c., but he most definitely was not lacking in other departments!
The Chandos CD features in MDT's top sellers of 2011....
Oh, well done Alan!
It also repays Chandos for the faith they put in the composer...
That's most encouraging, Alan. Well done! (Chandos too - and all involved in this venture).
Ralph Couzens reports on the Chandos forum:
<<Due to busy orchestral schedules the next volume of Rufinatscha has been postponed for a year. Apologies for this and I will post a message when I get a new date.>>
A tad disappointing, I suppose, but at least we know that vol.2 will follow in due course...
Noticed btw that RISM lists Rufinatscha symphonies 5 and 6; apologies if mentioned before and therefore redundant (or not even nearly on topic). Those wanting incipits/themes or other information on sym 5 before the CD of sym 5 is released (who don't already have the other recording) may want to check this link (http://opac.rism.info/search?documentid=650010272) for instance. (Click of course "Weitere incipits" to get sample themes from all the movements.) This is based on the copy of the material at Innsbruck. (RISM is often a useful resource for various reasons- rather more useful than this, actually... by which I mean in the next year or two, Chandos Records will probably have posted a PDF with all that material to their website, more or less, etc., and a CD with a performance of the work will be available for sale or download; not so much many other works of some interest to people here that RISM has manuscript-or-first-edition information on. Wasn't a negative about the Rufinatscha works I've heard, which have me looking forward to more as I'd expected.)
Thanks, Eric, I had never come across RISM before but what a useful source!
One of the IMSLP admins pointed me that way. Happy to pass it along. Is now in my list of things to check along with Hofmeister (which is only for published works) and the rest... :)
I still have only heard the 6th symphony once or twice but found it was up to the high expectations, and look forward to hearing it again, and to later entries in the series.
Eric
As with several other commentators, this reviewer draws a comparison between Rufinatscha and Schumann. Personally, I can't hear it at all, but see what you think:
http://classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=9152 (http://classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=9152)
I agree with much that Anthony Hodgson wrote in his review, but I'm afraid that his final sentence makes no sense:
Quotethe symphony is of the type of music that Robert Schumann might have composed had he chosen to orchestrate in a different manner.
What does this mean? I have no idea.
Like Alan I don't think that Rufinatscha has much in common with Schumann. To me he' s an essentially Austrian phenomenon, part of the tradition of Beethoven, Schubert and Bruckner.
I've no idea what Hodgson means either. Complete nonsense. Shows what we're up against when a professional critic spouts rubbish. Anyway, Schumann is a very different composer.
I couldn't agree more.
Phew - I thought it was just me...
Read some of the posts and now I must have a listen to it.
Tom
You can hear the whole work here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFAW7sE5dVU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFAW7sE5dVU)
QuoteThe way in which Rufinatscha chooses to shape the work is important to its comprehension – and it certainly differs from Schubert's final symphony because for all its length the Schubert is given a strictly classical contour whereas Rufinatscha's linking passages are not confined merely to the traditional device of writing a few bars to ease from one key to another – instead Rufinatscha writes one or two completely new melodic ideas. This seems to anticipate Bruckner's flexible approach to symphonic form. With no score available I put the wave-forms on to a screen and the symmetry of the construction at once became clear.
That last sentence made me chuckle. Is it possible? It reminds me of the game with LPs of identifying a work by looking at the surface of the vinyl - a light-colured band meant louder music.
Hi everybody!
I am a relatively new member in here.
Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but I couldn't resist to say these words. I always like to discover new composers and new works. Lately, I've been listening to the symphonies by Rufinatscha, and right now I'm playing the No. 5 in D major (Chandos recording). On the basis of these works, honestly, I can't think Rufinatscha was a great composer. I do know the praises towards this composer on this forum, but from my personal view there is nothing interesting so far. As for the symphony No. 5: absolutely disappointing, flat, discursive and lengthy. I prefer the symphonies 2 and 3 to this one, but they don't have any distinctive feature either.
My aim is not to hurt sensitivities, just to give my opinion about this composer.
No need to worry, there's no "party line" here and differences of opinion are valuable if politely expressed.
Oh quite. Thanks for posting. Courteously expressed heresy is always welcome here! ;)
The broader point is that neither praise nor criticism are very informative or even interesting without a motivation. There is probably a certain amount of "group think" on this forum (which is unavoidable at any social gathering), I think, but I'm glad to see that sofar it has never become stifling.
As for Rufinatscha, it's one of those composers I respect more than like, but I see where he's been important. My favorites of his are probably the 3rd and 4th symphonies; the 5th/6th I'm not mad about as I do feel that it goes on for a tad too long. Having said that, I generally also find that the search for "great" composers (and the dismissal of anyone who isn't found to be) does more damage to the music repertoire than anything. Rufinatscha was a very good, gifted composer.
QuoteRufinatscha was a very good, gifted composer.
Agreed. And sometimes a bit more than that...
I know this thread has been inactive for a while but for those who don't have the Rufinatscha "6th" (now "5th") on Chandos, it's included in their current summer sale for the princely sum of 5 whole English Pounds. Hope this helps.
I like him very much. Why did Chandos drop him, perhaps sales of unit were poor? People are not appreciative I think.
:-[
No idea, sorry. I was as disappointed as you evidently are.