I recently received a new recording of his first two symphonies done by the Malmo. It might be something to ponder.
Tom :)
You mean could someone famous have produced something that nowadays wider audiences are unfamiliar with? Yes, of course
Is this something that we could then talk about? This is the recording I'm talking about http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.573138 (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.573138)
Tom :)
I'd have to listen to them, evaluate the attractiveness and interestingness, and decide if -just my opinion of course- it is strange or not that they 'aven't been quite present on repertoire
We've mentioned the unsung works of sung composers before - no problem!
we've even had, I think, multiple threads on just this topic... (though I should clarify that a new one seems fine to me)...
I think it is a good idea and I'll start one on these two works of Saint Saens very soon.
Tom :)
Can't they?? Take a lot of choral work, for example: Beethoven's Cantatas and incidental music (ask people who wrote that janissary male choir in Ruinen von Athen, how many will say Beethoven?), Schumann's ballads, even Brahms' Rinaldo...
One could almost say the majority of works by well-known composers are unplayed. When did you last hear any of Dvorak's first six symphonies programmed, for instance? Or any of Haydn's piano concertos?
Quite. Although in the case of Dvorak, the early symphonies have at least been recorded multiple times. Which is the more than you can say of, for example, Wilhelm Berger whose magnificent 2nd Symphony has never had a commercial recording.
True - but there are degrees of "unsungitude". "Totally unfamiliar to the average listener" is different from "never having been recorded", but they are on the same scale.
"recorded" is a rather time-limited (in both directions, considering pre-1880s-ish and post-some time in the future?), contingent way of capturing something that could probably be better phrased, though I don't know how offhand... still... hrm.
Quote"recorded" is a rather time-limited (in both directions, considering pre-1880s-ish and post-some time in the future?), contingent way of capturing something that could probably be better phrased, though I don't know how offhand... still... hrm.
Eric, this is one of your most creative sentences ever. :o
What I like is the new word "unsungitude"
Tom :)
Yes, "unsungitude" is a term I plan to adopt, like a pet mouse I can let scurry out in unsuspecting moments to dazzle my friends and befuddle my ... uh ... unfriends.
Actually Dvorak's 5th and 6th Symphonies are starting to pop up on programs with increasing frequency.
I tend not to think of them as unsung. My school orchestra played D6 in the 1970s - mind you, the horn section did feature Adrian Leaper and Michael Thompson...
They are not as neglected as 1-4. Numbers 2 and 3 are possibly my favorites of the whole set!
In many years of concerts I have attended performances of Dvorak's Sixth four times (the conductors were Ahronovich, Boettchcher, Tate and Hrusa-the last just last December). Two live performances of Dvorak Fifth (Tate and Muti conductors).
I too would rate them sung works (the Sixth more, and not on account of my experience, in itself not very significant).
Saint-Saens; I attended two performances of the Second (but one was in France were the work is semi-sung, while the first remains-it seems to me- an absolute rarity).
I'm working on a review of all three works on the CD his first and second symphony plus the Phaeton work. My website contains an extremely wide variety of material and I have a couple of CD's ahead of this one. "Battle Music," a new and expanded version of their 1989 release, is the current project at hand. These kind of compilation CD's provide quite a bit of interest.
Tom :)
I'm guessing- will have to check- that the CD contains the works Saint-Saëns acknowledged as his 1st 2 symphonies, though they're his 2nd and 4th (unless I'm missing others - going by the IMSLP list which is not necessarily definitive...) - in chronological order? (Symphony in A major, 1850 ; Symphony no.1 in E-flat, 1853 ; Symphony in F major, 1856 ; Symphony no.2 in A minor, 1859 ; Symphony no.3 in C minor, 1886) Just curious...
Those are the only complete ones, but he had at least three other fragments which are listed in the Ratner thematic catalogue.
My first experience with Dvorak's 3rd was an MHS recording that spilt the 2nd movement over two sides of an album. Hampered my enjoyment. A bit...
The cd revolution was great, but I'll never part with my lps, warts and all.
Continuing the series of Saint-Saens' works is his Symphony in A major - a work he did at the age of 15. Taking the age factor into account it was quite a good Mozart Symphony ;D. I believe that there is going to be one more.
Tom
"I believe that there..."
You lost me? CD in the Malmo series, or something or something or something something something? Saint-Saëns has probably written all the symphonies he's gonna. Likewise, Mozart...
Ah. Since Naxos released on April 7 a disc (in what I assume is that same series) with Saint-Saëns' 3rd symphony and Symphony in A major (1850, with the E-flat op.2 coming in 1853, I see, yep) you're right after all. (And in both cases a symphonic poem- Phaeton; Le rouet d'Omphale. The review in MusicWeb dates the symphony in A as late as ca.1859 oddly.)
Neither disc so far has the F major Urbs Roma symphony of 1856. Hrm.
Perhaps they are recording those fragments I mentioned above. Would be a nice treat.
More likely, they will just couple it with La Jeunesse d'Hercule and possibly Marche Heroique (and maybe even Danse Macabre)...
I was listening last night to Le rouet d'Omphale, Op. 31 when the second theme became very familiar to me. I realized that this was the music for the radio program The Shadow which was quite popular in the 40's at least in the US. To my knowledge Saint-Saens was never given credit.
As far as I know there will be additional volumes to this set.
Tom :)
For me, this is a pointless question because quite obviously there are (justifiably or not) rarely played works by famous composers.
And in any case, although we have not been strict about it, the forum is "Unsung Composers" not "Unsung Compositions".
Am I right, or am I just having a grumpy day?
You are right, Colin, but I can't speak to your level of grumpiness.
...although we do occasionally allow the unsung compositions of sung composers - e.g. the reconstructed Grieg PC.
Indeed.
I was sharing with the forum members what I discovered in the new series of recordings from Saint-Saens. I feel a level of comfort here and the knowledge I've required is priceless. Having said that do I really belong here?
Tom :)
Of course you do, Tom. Don't be silly! ;)
Thanks for the encouragement. I feel a bit overwhelmed at times kind of like playing chess with a ranked player.
Tom :)
Nonsense. You are a valued member of this forum, as I'm sure others will agree.
Seconded!!!
Some years ago I tuned into R3 and heard this amazing piece of music and was discovered it was a cantata by Janacek Na Solani Cartak. Haven't heard it since.
Not sure if this counts as 'unsung' perhaps 'rarely heard'; Hyperion are releasing a new recording of Schoenberg's Gurrelieder in July. I am really looking forward to hearing it.
It's not unsung these days.
Naxos are, as far as Saint-Saens' first two Symphonies are concerned, not at all pioneering! In 1975 they were already recorded by French EMI (conducted by Jean Martinon). This LP was a great success and had sales worldwide. The complete (4) Symphonies (including the early A major item) have been reissued on a French double CD in 1989. I think, this is all other than unsung music!
I agree. With other discs, however, I'd say they are. (Again, if one -were- to expand the definition of "unsung" past the remit of this forum, that would not need argument; they released only the 2nd ever recording of Quincy Porter's first few string quartets - not counting the several-times-recorded 3rd - and rather soon after the first ever recording of all of them; their recent recording of Bacewicz string quartets might be only the 2nd ever recording of her quartet no.1; within the Romantic period, their Liszt series may contain some recordings of works very hard to find outside the Hyperion complete series, especially if they continue with it; the new Martucci trios are not premieres but the earlier CDs are not so easy to find that a new (good) recording shouldn't be welcomed (I admit I am a fan of his better music, though); I gather the recordings of Isasi's string quartets fall more or less within premiere(ish?) and Romantic-style; likewise premieres or near-premieres of early Bax works... etc. ...-
actually, is that (implication) really in question, or are you having us on? :D
Of course the answer is yes, I am sure the "successes" were far fewer than the pieces written by the "sung" composers. Having just read a biography of Tchaikovsky I realized how many operas he wrote, as well as the fact that I had not listened to his four suites for far too long. Enjoyed making that right!
Don't worry, eschiss1 :-)
I reacted in here whilst remembering exciting moments on exciting "unsung" LP releases of many many years ago - in my 20s. As an old man of 71, I now have become terribly nostalgic. In my student years I was using money reserved for food to buy (mostly "sung") LP's. The first ever was a coupling of Nutcracker and Sleeping Beauty Suites, the second the Giulini Romeo and Francesca (quite "unsung" at that time) and Dvorak's "New World". The later top exciting events were caused by those immortal Karajan Beethoven and Brahms sets on DGG! I was having sleepless nights, not only for the excitement of having the money soon to buy them (Later onI was selling LPs in a Zurich music shop on a temporary basis), but also afterwards while listening. The first "unsung" item I got at that time may have been Tchaikovsky's "Hamlet", a Melodiya LP received as a gift from a lady curator of the Klin Tchaikovsky House. The Karajans changed my life completely... And a Brams addict I still am. Sorry for this semi-private and out of theme interlude...
On Brahms: my favorite unsung Brahms, and one of my favorite indulgences of all, is the Schoenberg arrangement of the g minor quartet. Schoenberg's Gurrelieder isn't unsung but his orchestral gift of the Brahms sure doesn't get played often enough. Fortunately, there are several terrific recordings.
Hrm. Unsung Brahms- is his Zigeunerlieder sufficiently unsung? I remember hearing that in my first week of college and thinking something like "this is Brahms?" ... Mind, I enjoyed Brahms, but this was a whole new side to him. (Then there was the chamber music student-initiated seminar I took the next year- better-known music, but not music _I'd_ heard...
I had the joy of running into this music -and-, at the recommendation of an earlier acquaintance, Berwald and some others, at about the same time, so I remember both the joy of horizons beginning to expand and the worry that my coursework was going to (it did) suffer with my spending more time on music than on my assigned college material. (Listening to a tape of the to me then-recently-discovered Mahler 6 while trying to study for my medieval-history final (interesting course, excellent and offbeat teacher, but hard class of course- bad for concentration, the tape... not good at concentration, sometimes.)
... But that... erm.
and yes, the finale of the G minor piano quartet, well, not for nothing is that a Rondo alla Zingarese too...) (Rheinberger did that, very effectively, a few times too- 1st piano trio, A minor string quintet... but yes, I'm digressing again...)
Looking at the few recordings done so far (and. surely rare concert performances), Brahms' "Rinaldo" could still be considered an unsung piece.
Malcolm MacDonald in his (imho fine, even excellent) "Brahms" felt the Triumphlied undeservedly unsung, as well... (haven't heard it yet, though maybe I should just check YouTube...)
(Briefly/tangentially on the subject of biographies I often reread the one volume I have of Walker's Liszt trilogy, and -he- seems to have a few suggestions himself in FL,TOSF's connection, unsurprisingly; we've covered one - Elisabeth (from Volume III, not the volume I have)- recently. I am currently borrowing Refardt's book on Huber- _very_ interesting, and mentions something about symphony 8 I'd never heard before... but that'd be for another thread, since of course Huber's not sung...)
"Triumphlied" -it seems-to me was recorded fairly recently by Sinopoli (but not by Abbado).
Both Abbado (some decades ago) and Sinopoli (later) recorded the rare (but less rare) "Rinaldo".
Perhaps a new category- Semi-sung! What is more alarming is to realize just how arbitrary the development of the "standard repertory" is! So much superb music now never seems to be played in the concert hall- thank heaven for the proliferation of CD recordings. All four of the early Saint-Saens symphonies are superb works- beautiful and characterful; I have been trying for years to get my local symphony (Baltimore Symphony Orchestra) to program the Symphony #2, so far to no avail.
Sorry for my mixup! Oh dear, I meant "Schickalslied" instead of "Triumphlied"! And "Schicksalslied" (which was recorded twice by Abbado!) is a real masterwork.
Yes, alberto, "Triumphlied" has been recorded by Sinopoli and not by Abbado. I never heard the versions by Järvi (Chandos) and by Andreas Delfs with the Milwaukee Chorus/Orchestra...
I have thus deleted my earlier erroneous message.
And, after all, "Rinaldo" does not seem to be unsung on recordings as I thought:
It has been recorded for the first time in stereo (as far as I remember) by Abbado and James King on Decca. The Kollo/Sinopoli came later. Another version I like very much is the one with Steve Davislim on EMI (conducted by Plasson). The other ones are by Stig Andersen/Albrecht, Johan Botha/De Billy and Karsten Süss/Rilling. The versions by Pold/Couraud (DF) and Kerol/Leibowitz (Vox) were mono recordings.
In regards Triumphlied, there is a broadcast version here (http://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/epg/import/Triumphlied-op-55-Sinfonie-Nr-5-c-Moll-op-67,sendung295268.html), it seems.
I would say the vast majority of Bruch's concertante works and all 3 of his symphonies meet the criteria of this thread. Unless you want to consider Bruch a semi-sung rather than unsung composer a priori.
Hrm- sung composers, unsung works - Respighi's Sinfonia drammatica (and his concertos (some more obscure than others); and most-to-all of his chamber music - all, really, are, by most definitions, relatively unsung :) - and his operas... ), Mascagni's sinfonia in F major (?) (listed in SBN.it - I'm not quite sure what that _is_... :D ) ; Borodin's early chamber music (his -late- chamber works really got me into classical music, via "Kismet", but then one day I heard his- less characterful, but still- interesting!...- piano quintet on the radio... e.g.) (unless Borodin himself -is- now unsung, regrettably and hence doesn't fall into "answers for this question" cat-meow. Time and fashion... don't know :( ) ... a lot of other Liszt works might be mentioned (but then, he was among the more prolific* of the now rather famous Romantic composers... Alan Walker made a case for his songs and melodramas as worthy of much greater renewed attention, just-for-example...) ; Tchaikovsky songs and piano music (with a few better-known exceptions e.g. All But the Lonely Harp... erm... Flute... erm... Heart...)
*putting the most famous of the more dance-and-operetta-concentrating composers to one side if only because my familiarity with their music is small and I admit I'm more interested in "un[der]sung works by Liszt/Brahms/Beethoven/Tchaikovsky/Saint-Saens/..." than "un[der]sung works by the (Johann) Strauss family/...". ... Then again, .. "more prolific", not "most", I see I wrote, so - eh- bother, said- someone in a Pooh novel...
Liszt was far more prolific than Johann Strauss Jr, no real need to justify that I don't think....