Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: BerlinExpat on Monday 22 June 2015, 11:58

Title: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: BerlinExpat on Monday 22 June 2015, 11:58
Advance notice from the Felix Woyrsch Society homepage:

Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5. Gartenszene aus ,,Szenen zu Goethes Faust" / Felix Woyrsch. – Georgsmarienhütte : cpo, 2016. – 1 Compact Disc + Notes.
Interpreteers: Radio-Philharmonie <Hannover> : Dorsch, Thomas [conductor];
In preparation
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 22 June 2015, 17:53
Thanks for this advance notice.
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 04 July 2015, 21:42
Nos.4 Op.71 and 5 Op.75 are, according to a 2011 Wayback Machine copy of http://www.p-w-g.de/WerkvW.html, in F and D respectively (and like much of his music, still in manuscript.)

Someone once promised to upload the (ms or typeset) score-or-parts of his 6th symphony (Op.77 in C major, Sinfonia sacra) to IMSLP (or at least created a page for it, which traditionally amounts to such a promise), but didn't follow through (so the page is now deleted. My interest being whetted anyway even on such miniscule information, I still look forward to hearing these things at least once :) )
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Aramiarz on Sunday 05 July 2015, 07:27
Well! Woyrsch was one Excellent And interesting self-taught composer
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: britishcomposer on Saturday 15 September 2018, 15:31
NDR Kultur will be broadcasting Symphony No. 5 this afternoon:

https://www.ndr.de/ndrkultur/programm/index.html

See: 18:30 Uhr - Musica
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 16 September 2018, 00:45
Looking forward to this CD and other instalments. I realize that the 3rd received negative notice in this forum but (back in the day when I was able to hear it via NML :) ) I quite liked it myself, in part for the very qualities for which it was being criticized- I'm ornery that way. Maybe that's why I look forward to this CD. How was no.5?
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: hyperdanny on Monday 17 September 2018, 17:16
if it get a recording, it is going to be an interesting adventure..the Woyrsch 1st was a revelation ( I play it quite often, I think it's stupendous) and then..only disappointments: the 2nd sounded to me very bland and piecemeal and the 3rd..I just don't even "get" it as a piece......we'll see..
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: britishcomposer on Monday 17 September 2018, 21:10
I am sorry, but I couldn't get warm with it. His orchestration is brilliant as ever but the material is not strong enough to keep interest. The most extraordinary thing about No. 5 is its brevity. At about 22 minutes you cannot blame it for outstaying its welcome.

I wonder how I would describe its provenance. Liszt was perhaps the greatest influence but a strong classicistic element esp. in the first movement shows that he was trying to come to terms with a new aesthetic climate.

Well, this is all pure speculation on my part. A MIDI rendition is available:
http://www.p-w-g.de/tonaufnahmen.html (http://www.p-w-g.de/tonaufnahmen.html)
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Ilja on Tuesday 18 September 2018, 12:29
Has anyone recorded this and if so, would they be willing to share? NDR apparently does not allow streaming past broadcasts.


Sorry to be the contrarian here, but I have sofar loved all of Woyrsch's works that I have heard: from the monumental Brahmsian First Symphony to his later works, which for me possess a quirkiness and move to more compact expression quite untypical for his generation. The fifth I've known only from the MIDI rendering, but I've found it one of the few pieces I can actually enjoy somewhat to in that form.
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: M. Yaskovsky on Thursday 11 October 2018, 06:48
Available on CD from October, 15 - 2018 at jpc.de https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/felix-woyrsch-symphonien-nr-4-5/hnum/6096010
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Ilja on Friday 12 October 2018, 09:48
Thanks! My order is in.
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 12 October 2018, 10:48
I'll be ordering this too!
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: hyperdanny on Sunday 14 October 2018, 09:38
I'll wait until I get more of an idea from you guys..sorry but the 3rd made me adopt a very cautious stance toward Woyrsch..
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 15 October 2018, 01:10
in the meanwhile, the 4th symphony has recently (2016) been published, the 5th is I think still in ms., they are Opp.71 and 75 and are in F and D major (I think), and they date from 1931 and 1937 (according to IMSLP...)

As I said, I rather liked symphony no.3 and (before Naxos tweaked NMLSLP :) ) was looking forward to hearing it again (maybe on YouTube, will check there. Or something. Or buy it, of course).

(2nd symphony: 1912-3. 3rd symphony: 1921. I posit that it is an acceptable point of view that a composer may sound different after 8 years...)
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Ilja on Monday 15 October 2018, 09:07
Eric, the 2nd and 3rd Symphony are both on Spotify if you want to take a listen - and the 4th and 5th will be in due course.
There is also a Sixth Symphony, the "Sinfonia Sacra" in C major from 1939. It's untypically compact (around 20 minutes; I have the feeling that "sacral" things tend to be fairly long-winded), and cast in three movements: Sanktus (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJv-KsVKGjw), Via Crucis (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b34GDZhsAwg), and Gloria (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNIrcKniSgQ). Those links refer to a a MIDI rendering on YouTube.
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 28 October 2018, 18:00
No.4 is a 34-minute work in a rather knotty idiom, as one might expect from the earlier symphonies. What's really interesting is that a 70 year-old composer (the work was first performed in 1930) clearly believed that the Austro-German symphonic tradition still had life in it - as, indeed, did Fritz Brun, for example. I find the music fascinating, partly because Woyrsch isn't a self-indulgent composer: the symphony is mostly restless in mood, has terrific momentum and really blazes at climaxes. I don't think it'll ever be popular, but it is very satisfying - at least to these tired old ears.
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 29 October 2018, 00:22
Belated thanks by the way; maybe I should sign up for Spotify sometime.
If they record the 6th and 7th and have room to eg couple them with his "Skaldische" violin rhapsody-concerto- well! :)
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 30 October 2018, 16:05
Woyrsch's first three efforts had left me rather cold, but the 4th Symphony is a very intriguing work. As late-Romantic German symphonies go, I found it a very refreshing listen - a perfect antidote to the giganticism of so many over-inflated fin de siècle works from Urspruch to Hausegger and Marx (I'm ducking as I type!). This is a modestly-proportioned work, chock-full of variety, imaginative scoring and, particularly, unexpected harmonic turns. It also, as Alan rightly says, has refreshing momentum. What it lacks on first hearing is memorable thematic material. The slow movement is better in this respect, and has a certain craggy grandeur to it, whilst the finale is particularly successful and satisfying. The 5th Symphony is on an even more compact scale (barely 20 minutes long) and shows a more genial, relaxed and outwardly melodic face, but otherwise has all the hallmarks of its predecessor. Once again, the slow movement has real depth, and Woyrsch shows he's mastered the curse of the romantic symphonic finale. These are two fine works from an elderly composer, breathing life into a form many had given up as irrelevant in the 20th century. 
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Ilja on Wednesday 31 October 2018, 11:32
Eric, sofar as I know there is no Seventh Symphony; the Sixth is the last. There's a "listenable" MIDI rendering up on Youtube.
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Ilja on Wednesday 31 October 2018, 11:37
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Tuesday 30 October 2018, 16:05
These are two fine works from an elderly composer, breathing life into a form many had given up as irrelevant in the 20th century. 
This is what I find particularly intriguing; Woyrsch is, in his own way, an innovator within a largely but not entirely traditional framework. I love both symphonies, particularly the fifth. We can clearly see an evolution here, from a rather run-of-the-mill (albeit very fine) Brahmsian First Symphony to a much more individual but still recognizable idiom in these works.
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 31 October 2018, 12:23
true. There's an early symphony no.0, but that's not what I meant. I misremembered :)
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 31 October 2018, 14:12
This was a trajectory shared (in their different ways) by Brun and Röntgen. Forgotten masters all...
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 31 October 2018, 22:18
No.5 is indeed a very impressive piece which feels bigger than its 21 minutes. If anyone has held back from investigating Woyrsch up to now, this CD ought to be on your wants list. It's superb - and superbly done too, with the NDR Radiophilharmonie of Hanover doing sterling work on behalf of this unfamiliar music.
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: hyperdanny on Monday 28 January 2019, 15:46
today, a really dismissive review of this release on Musicweb...
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 28 January 2019, 15:56
Well, I'm not surprised. You have to work at this music...
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: JimL on Monday 28 January 2019, 16:52
Now if only some enterprising violinist would tackle the Skaldische Rhapsodie...
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Ilja on Tuesday 29 January 2019, 20:00
I don't mind this sort of review; obviously I feel differently, and to some extent I think the reviewer genuinely doesn't understand this music, but it is phrased as a personal experience and one can't really disagree (or agree) with that.
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: hyperdanny on Tuesday 29 January 2019, 22:56
I agree, the review is well written and rather cogently elaborated, so it deserves respect...it's just that the reviewer, IMHO, is faulting the music for not being something that is not meant to be.
Woyrsch's music is "strange" anyway, and it's always bound to elicit controversy, even in the same listener---
Take me, for example: I think the 1st and 4th (which, interestingly , to my ears doesn't sound difficult or untuneful at all) are masterpieces, the 2nd really unsubstantial and piecemeal, while the 3rd and 5th I do not really "get" (I listened to the 5th just twice, though, so judgement suspended),
I cannot really think of another composer that elicits such drastically discordant reactions from opus to opus.
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Ilja on Wednesday 30 January 2019, 08:42
Yes, I've found that in other people. What do you make of the 6th/7th Symphony?
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: hyperdanny on Wednesday 30 January 2019, 10:25
I haven't listened to those yet, are they on YT?
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 30 January 2019, 11:07
...not that I can see. Ilja?
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Ilja on Wednesday 30 January 2019, 15:36
A synthetic recording used to be on YouTube, but it has since been pulled, apparently.
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 30 January 2019, 17:40
What can you remember about them, Ilja?
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Ilja on Friday 01 February 2019, 09:09
The 6th Symphony (or 7th if you number consecutively) in C minor, Op. 77 (1939) is subtitled "Sinfonia sacra" and contains three movements: Sanktus, Via Crucis, and Gloria, although it doesn't sound like you'd expect a religiously inspired work to sound. Stylistically it continues where the 5th Symphony left off, but it has more drive and perhaps also a bit more coherence. It's a bit shorter at 19 minutes for the MIDI rendering that I have.
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 01 February 2019, 10:52
Thanks for that.
Title: Re: Woyrsch, Felix: Symphonies no. 4 & 5 etc
Post by: Ilja on Friday 29 May 2020, 12:51
Talking (quite a while ago, sorry) about synthetic recordings of Woyrsch: there has apparently been one of his Violin Concerto in D minor, the "Skaldische Fantasie" on IMSLP for a while now (https://imslp.org/wiki/Violin_Concerto%2C_Op.50_(Woyrsch%2C_Felix)). Unfortunately, solo violins are still a bit of a challenge for NotePerformer, but it's definitely listenable.

From this appears quite a powerful work from 1902, inspired by ancient nordic poetry. It fits in with the numerous works based on the Edda, Beowulf, the Frithjof Saga, and similar nordic tales that were so popular in the late 19th century.

It is from early in Woyrsch's career, preceding even the First Symphony (which was the composer's second, but let's stay off that path) of 1907. That means it is sizeable in length (around 30 minutes) and quite Brahmsian in style (although with a quite un-Brahmsian sense of rhythm). It'd be lovely to have a "proper" recording of it at some point.


Edit: More information (in German) here (https://books.google.nl/books?id=CW3JDwAAQBAJ&q=skaldik#v=snippet&q=skaldik&f=false).