Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 24 September 2015, 11:51

Title: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 24 September 2015, 11:51
Available now in the Downloads board here (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,5808.0.html) is a recording of an excellent performance of a really fine early-romantic violin concerto by the virtuoso Franz Clement. His D major Concerto of 1805 was issued a few years ago on a commercial CD, played by Rachel Barton Pine, and it's robust idiom and romantic colouring were impressive for a work written so early in the 19th century. There is strong evidence that it influenced Beethoven to write his own concerto the next year, which he dedicated to Clement.

The new work is Clement's unpublished Violin Concerto in D minor, written in 1810, which is a major advance on what I suppose we must now call his First. Clement in his turn is clearly influenced by Beethoven's concerto in this lyrically dramatic work, which even quotes from the Beethoven in the long opening movement's cadenza. Although there are plenty of opportunities for the soloist to shine, as one would expect from a work written by a virtuoso, the Concerto's character isn't that of a glittery show-piece, but of a major symphonic composition of serious intent. His writing for the orchestra is particularly effective. It's a very strong piece, undeniably romantic in its outlook, which in its boldness and forward-looking style, to my ears completely overshadows the contemporary works of Rode, for example.

I see that Clement wrote several more violin concertos. They presumably post date this one as the designation of "No.2" comes from the manuscript, which was recently discovered in the Bavarian State Library in Munich. Judging by the two concertos which we now have, Clement was a very considerable early-romantic composer, and I'd love to hear more of his music.
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 24 September 2015, 11:55
This is a magnificent piece. It knocks into the proverbial cocked hat all those VCs by Rode, Kreutzer, etc. Clement was clearly more than simply a virtuoso who wrote concertos for his instrument: he was a genuinely fine composer. Naxos, are you listening?
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 24 September 2015, 23:41
The movements, from what seems to be a Fleisher Collection entry, are

#Moderato --
#Adagio --
#Rondo ; Allegro.

Worldcat also lists a published but rare Clement piano concerto (pub.ca.1803), it seems.
The 1805 one seems to have been only recently enough published too (2005) (just to warn anyone against taking "published" as meaning "in the 19th century"- at least... not as far as I know?... maybe, could be... there's a couple sources I haven't checked, e.g. ONB's "Quicksearch" which has lots of info on Austrian music publications not also found in Worldcat, and since the piano concerto was published in Vienna... hrm- ah. A violin concerto- I'm guessing (guessing) the D major- was published by Vienne : Au Magasin de l'imprimerie chimique I. R. (same publisher as the piano concerto, yes, and yes, a major publisher of Beethoven's), with plate 259. (Anyone in Vienna want to stop in at the library for a quick check? Joking.) From other publications of theirs uploaded to IMSLP etc. 1805 seems a not bad guess for plate 259, though, and 1810 might have corresponded to a rather larger plate # (if it were published and were the parts-set in Q rather than the 1805-composedorpublished-concerto.)

Some 38-odd works were published with opus, it seems(?) though this one went without...
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: JimL on Friday 25 September 2015, 03:50
I just gave the piece a preliminary listen-to, and all I can say right now is "Whoa!"  :)
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: semloh on Friday 25 September 2015, 08:24
Yes, a fine work, and thanks to Mark for drawing it to my/our attention.  :)

Both concertos, and the Concertino Brillante in F# Major are available on YT but I had never noticed them. Listening to the other two works will be interesting.
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: Richard Moss on Friday 25 September 2015, 10:49
I have a recording of VC #1 in D maj by Rachel Pine (dated 1805 - the work, not the recording!).  It will be interesting to dig that out and compare the two works.

Many thanks Mark for this upload.

Richard
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 25 September 2015, 11:12
No.2 is more adventurous - hardly surprisingly. The fact that it's in the minor key is a major factor here (no pun intended!)
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: jerfilm on Friday 25 September 2015, 16:58
VC 1 can be heard on YouTube.

Jerry
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 26 September 2015, 04:56
in this case unsurprisingly since there's at least one commercial recording of the first concerto...
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: oldman on Saturday 26 September 2015, 20:07
For those interested, A sample of the score from A-R editions of the D major concerto can be found at

https://books.google.com/books?id=rRb7_9xVA4AC&pg=PR7&lpg=PR7&dq=franz+clement+piano+concerto&source=bl&ots=qjIsArWdGY&sig=nPTCYJbjUc45NR9DjTpn_pVDI9o&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEAQ6AEwBmoVChMI7dWohrKVyAIVRzI-Ch0V2QFK#v=onepage&q=franz%20clement%20piano%20concerto&f=false

Between what was uploaded and what is on Youtube, we now have just over 90  minutes of music from this fantastic unsung!
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: John H White on Sunday 27 September 2015, 14:34
I see there is quite an interesting write up on Clement in Wikkipedia, but no indication as to whether he wrote anything other than for his own instrument for which it claims 6 concertos.
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 27 September 2015, 20:07
Maybe I should add to their list. The offertorium, at least, despite its violin solo, suggests he was not quite wholly a violin composer- if it is indeed by this composer...

EDIT: NOTE TO SELF: In worklists, select "don't use bixies/smileys" option. otherwise, certain eights become, yknow, ...

Just from the ÖNB catalog and Hofmeister HMB- assuming, assuming, these are all by the same person- I see the following (admittedly, all or mostly for violin...)
They might be, some of them, by Félix Clément, who also composed and published works in the 19th century (though more in the latter end...) according to Hofmeisters Monatsberichte. Also, Franz and François Clement/Clément (and "F. Clement", etc., too, and... &c) are probably but not absolutely definitely the same composer seen from two sides of a border; just because it's extremely likely doesn't make it always the case... so- caveat, there.

*Op.2 (maybe 11). String trio. (Vienne : Au Bureau d'Arts et d'Industrie (same as Magasin de l'imprimerie chimique, basically I think?). Plate 38)
*8 Variations (poss. same as the following work??) (Magasin de l'imprimerie chimique, plate 232, ca. 1805)
*"8 Variations pour le Violon Sur la Marche tirée de l'Opera "Die Neger". Composées par François Clement." (pub. by Cappi, plate 1130.) (Nr. - Op.? - 3)
*In turn, perhaps the same work as???
**VIII variations avec coda pour le violon sur un thème de l'opéra Alimelek (digitized by BSB, in a ca.1815 publication by  Prague: Krammer)
*Also - other Op.3: Piano Quartet (@ BSB, not digitized)
*"Variations pour le Violon Sur l'Air /: Wer hörte wohl jemals mich klagen, de l'Opera :/ Die Schweitzer Familie" (Op.? 4) (Cappi, plate 1472)
*"Variations pour le Violon Sur un Thème tiré de la Pantomime /: Die 3 Sclaven" (Op. (? just says No. again) 8) (pub. by Cappi, plate 1487)
*"[Op. 31.] Six Variations pour le Violon avec accompagnement d'une Guitarre, sur un air de l'Opéra: La gazza ladra [Gioachino Rossini]; composées et dediées à Mr. le Comte Charles de Soltik" (T.Weigl, publisher)
*"[Op. 36.] Rondeau brillant pour le Violon avec accompagnement de deux Violons, Alto et Violoncelle. Composé et dédié à Monsieur Albert de Rosty à Gyula" (Mechetti/Weigl)
*"[Op. 38.] Six Variations sur un thême de J. Rossini, pour le Violon principal avec accompagnement de Pianoforte. Composées et dediées à Monsieur François Pechatschek" (pub. by Diabelli. plate M.A. 812.)
*"Drey beliebte Arien der berühmten Saengerin Angelica Catalani, nach ihrer eigenen Angabe gesetzt, und mit Piano-Forte. Begleitung, hrsg. von Franz Clement" (pub.ca.1821 by Weigl) (#1: Pietosa a miei lamenti. Weigl plate: 1879)
* Polonaise p. Violon avec Orchestre (in A) (Mechetti, pub.1829)
* Another Polonaise (Polonaise für die Violine mit Begleitung von 2 Violinen, Viola und Violonzello ) in E major (pub.ca.1802, Diabelli, digitized @ BSB)
* Divertissement for violin and strings (Diabelli, 1830)
* Concertino brillante p. Violon av. Acc. de 2 Violons, Alto et Bass (in Fis.) (Diabelli, 1838)
* Offertorium (Ave, o rosa mistica) f. Sopran u. Violin, Solo m. Begl. v. 4 Singstimmen, 2 Violinen, Alt, 2 Hoboen, 2 Fagott, 2 Hörner, Vclle u. Contrabass. Op. 30 (Diabelli, 1841) (ONB copy of parts has plate D&C No. 7115)
* VI Etudes pour le Violon. Composées et dediées à Monsieur Antoine Sieber, Eleve de l'auteur, par Fr. Clement. Cahier I. (Vienne : Magasin de l'imprimerie chimique, plates 233-4)
* Variations sur la Romance de l'Opera "Joseph und seine Brüder" pour le Violon seule (by Clement) (pub. by Weigl) (Vienne : Magasin de l'imprimerie chimique, plate 1441)
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 27 September 2015, 20:28
Oh, the D major 1805 YouTube -isn't- Pine's recording...
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: Wheesht on Sunday 27 September 2015, 20:44
The German book "Grosse Musikführer, Musik der Romantik" (by Alfred Baumgartner, published in 1983) mentions "some chamber music, piano concerti, overtures, a mass and several stage works" without giving more details. The brief entry says, literally translated, that his style "moves in the shadow of the First Viennese School" and also, intriguingly, that his penchant for eccentric playing techniques contributed to his fame as a virtuoso performer quickly fading away.

There is a reference to an article (that I haven't seen): R. Haas, The Violinist Franz Clement, The Musical Quarterly XXXIV, 1948
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 28 September 2015, 00:37
ah, also I did see on Worldcat some reference somewhere to the parts of a 1803-published piano concerto, right... other piano concertos makes sense. According to Brown (2005), "R. Haas" would be "The Viennese Violinist, Franz Clement," Musical Quarterly 34 (1948): 15-27. His footnotes also list an 1835 article in German by the composer/writer Ignaz von Seyfried which may be available digitized...  there's also a 1969 dissertation on Clement by Manfred Merk, to which Brown
refers several times.

According to Brown, two of the violin concertos by Clement, both in D, possibly earlier than the 1805 work, are "said to be" lost.

By the way, the ca.1810 concerto that's the subject of this entire thread has a plate number, is a printed score, and is not a manuscript. It was published by the Imprimerie ca.1810, plate 1504. (Possibly composed much earlier. Please, could we once and for freaking all stop with "written in" 1810 when the evidence only allows for "published in" or "published by/around"? I know it only matters so much - usually - though Bach works "written in" 2012 might confuse people- and if you don't understand that reference I'll explain...)
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 28 September 2015, 00:44
btw, the parts of the Clement D minor concerto are digitized. It's not a score, but you can follow along from the violin part, say (comes in after the timpani part)-


http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht/?PPN=PPN630059241 (http://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht/?PPN=PPN630059241)

(and yes, the plate is 1540, my bad)
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 28 September 2015, 08:15
QuotePlease, could we once and for freaking all stop with "written in" 1810
Well, sorry for upsetting you so, Eric. I took this in good faith from the programme notes for the concert at which the work was recorded. The same goes for the fact that it was "discovered in manuscript" at the Bayerische Staatsbibliothek. I have indeed since seen that it is listed in worldcat.org as having been published.
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 28 September 2015, 09:46
Perhaps the manuscript is -also- there, and I know I am given to more than a bit of overreaction (I would say "before my coffee" but since I don't -drink- coffee...)  -- I mislike having to take -everything- on their word, mind. And I've since not only found the published version mentioned on Worldcat but even in a form digitized/uploaded by SBB (different library, true) that one can verify for one's own self.

(BSB Munich does list the published version in their catalog as well, if somewhat confusingly- not, at least not that I see, a manuscript form, but then what would be the point of "discovering" something already in plain sight in the online catalog... hrm, I shouldn't ask that, happens all the time and I can certainly understand how...)
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 28 September 2015, 10:17
QuotePlease, could we once and for freaking all stop with "written in" 1810 when the evidence only allows for "published in" or "published by/around"?]Please, could we once and for freaking all stop with "written in" 1810 when the evidence only allows for "published in" or "published by/around"?

Well, it's not always clear, Eric - as you and I both found out when trying to establish when Lassen's VC was (i) written and (ii) first performed. Multiple sources often quote varying dates. So, while I agree in principle, clarity is sometimes hard to establish.

To return to Clement's VC2, the notes (in German) which accompany the first modern performance say:

"1810 entstanden" = "composed in 1810"
"Es ist 1807/1808 im Druck erschienen" = "appeared in print in 1807/1808"   ???

Can anyone be surprised when different dates are quoted - especially when they are contradictory?

In addition, apparently the conductor, Reinhard Goebel, discovered the work in the Berlin State Library - but whether it was in manuscript or printed form is not made clear.
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 28 September 2015, 11:00
Also and BTW, I had the publisher confused- this was not Beethoven's publisher "Bureau des Arts et d'Industrie"/"Kunst- und Industrie-Comptoir". The publisher of the Clement concerto 2 and a number of his other works, "Magasin de l'Imprimerie Chimique" - possibly the French version/translation of "Chemische Druckerey" (German name) which was an ancestor-imprint of the famous publisher Tobias Haslinger? That makes sense, actually. :) And in the Haslinger plate-table a plate of 1540 would fit- hrm- somewhere between 1805 and 1812. That's all I know at this moment, I think. Will have to figure out more...)
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 26 November 2019, 07:41
...forthcoming from Sony:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/violinkonzerte-1-2/hnum/9522547 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/violinkonzerte-1-2/hnum/9522547)
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: matesic on Tuesday 26 November 2019, 08:27
I assume one of these is the D minor concerto of 1810 of which all the orchestral parts as well as the soloist's are available on IMSLP. Pretty standard classical fare by the look of it - not exactly inspiring!
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: matesic on Tuesday 26 November 2019, 08:34
The D minor concerto can be heard on youtube, same conductor but different violinist. Also a concerto in D major with a duration of 40 minutes...
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: jdperdrix on Tuesday 26 November 2019, 09:05
The D major is already available by Rachel Barton Pine and the RPO under José Serebrier. It was created one year before Beethoven's own D major. The soloist for Beethoven's was Franz Clement  who, possibly, revised Beethoven's violin part. The D minor was the first large-scale minor violin concerto by a German composer and was created a few years after Beethoven's. These three works show lots of mutual influences.

The D minor is indeed available on youtube, but with a fairly bad-quality sound.

This recording is most welcome for the D minor, at least.
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: Hector on Tuesday 26 November 2019, 10:44
It is a bit disappointing if it is the same D major concerto that has already been recorded. I would be much more likely to buy it if it were two I had not heard before, do recording companies not do an internet search before embarking on recording projects?

The Clement Concerto Barton Pine recorded is delightful although inevitably suffers from being so directly compared with Beethoven's Concerto in the sleeve notes and by being in the same Cd package. However the similarities between the two do rather demonstrate how the "greats" often took ideas and inspiration from the "not so greats".

The recording of the Clement in D minor on You Tube sounds to me as if the finale has been cut.
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 26 November 2019, 12:26
I'll be buying this despite the duplication...
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 18 May 2020, 16:53
No.1 in D major, as we've said before, is a major work so similar in concept and feel to Beethoven's great work in the same key that its influence on the latter is palpable. And now we have No.2 in D minor/major, which is a rather more romantic-sounding work and which, as Reinhard Goebel's sleevenote suggests, actually shares more 'dependencies' with Beethoven's VC than No.1. Goebel also points out that there are 'striking similarities' with Reicha's Sinfonia Concertanta for 2 Cellos.

Clearly someone is going to have do some proper musicological research into the complexities of 'Beethoven's World'...

BTW I've merged this thread with the older one on VC2 - I think it makes sense.
Title: Re: Franz Clement: Violin Concertos 1 & 2
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 18 May 2020, 20:02
This is a thoroughly recommendable disc. Both works are large scale pieces of real stature which receive very committed and persuasive performances. Quite a lot has been made of the mutual debt owed by Beethoven and Clement, and you can certainly appreciate that hearing both these pieces, but Clement was clearly his own man and no more an epigone of Beethoven than Reicha was. On the strength of these two violin concertos, I'd love to hear his Piano Concerto Op.5, published in 1803.