I'd like to see and hear recordings of:-
(1) All the symphonies of Franz Lachner, especially numbers 2 & 6
(2) All the unrecorded symphonies of Kallivoda.
(3) All the unrecorded symphonies of Carl Czerny.
(4) All of Eggert's symphonies.
(5) Any symphonies by Ignaz Lachner. I believe he wrote one for children on the lines of the Toy Symphony.
(6) Any choral symphonies that predated Beethoven's No. 9
The odds are that none of this will happen in my lifetime, but there's no harm in wishing! :) Now, who have I left out? ;D
These are good suggestions in respect of the first half of the 19th century. As for later in the century, these would be mine:
1. Bargiel C major
2. Rudorff 1-3
3. Berger W. 1 & 2
4. Noskowski 1-3
5. Cliffe 2
6. Klughardt 2, 4, 5 (1 & 3 are in the pipeline)
7. Abert 1-3 & 5-7
8. Hofmann Frithjof
9. Jadassohn 2-4
10. Sgambati 2
11. Grimm D minor
12. Becker A. G minor
13. Reinthaler D major
14. Munzinger A major
15. Grädener C. C minor
16. Hiller G major; E minor
17. Scharwenka P. 1 & 2
18. Stojowski D minor
I'd happily subscribe to John's list and add some more arch-romantic suggestions of my own (in no particular order):
Heinrich Hofmann's Frithjof Symphony
Julius Rietz's Symphony No.3 (but Nos.1&2 would be nice too)
Julius Otto Grimm's Symphony
Emil Hartmann's symphonies
Alfred Hill's unrecorded symphonies
Hugo Ulrich's Symphonie Triomphale
August Klughardt's symphonies
Bronsart's symphonies (if they were ever found)
Jean Louis Nicodé's Gloria! Symphony
Schnyder van Wartensee's unrecorded symphonies
Frederick Cowen's unrecorded symphonies
Frederic Cliffe's Symphony No.2
Zygmunt Noskowski's three symphonies
Zygmunt Stojowski's Symphony
Philip Scharwenka's symphonies
und so weiter...
p.s. Alan and I obviously drink at the same well
Faure wrote a Suite, Op. 20, which is sometimes called a Symphony, and for whatever reason it seems to have never been recorded in full...
Also, Chaminade's choral symphony thingy.
Quote from: TerraEpon on Monday 01 June 2009, 03:08
Faure wrote a Suite, Op. 20, which is sometimes called a Symphony, and for whatever reason it seems to have never been recorded in full...
There is an "Allegro Symphonique" by Faure recorded on CD. Has that got anything to do with the Suite or are those separate works?
Many of the works mentioned above would indeed be most welcome on CD (I'm especially interested in the Eggert and Noskowski). A few others that comes to mind are the symphonies of Bror Beckman, Einar Skagerberg, Adolf Wiklund, Ole Olsen, G Fitelberg and Robin Milford. It would also be nice if Naxos would record more of the symphonies of Hadley in their American series. There also ought to be a few unsung French symphonies of interest out there (thank you CPO, for the new Gouvy CD!).
Hi there everyone.
Three English symphonies I would particularly like to see in circulation are Francis Davenport's symphonies in D minor and B flat major and Alice Mary Smith's symphony no.3 in G major.
Davenport's D minor work shared first prize (with Stanford's B flat symphony) in a competition arranged at the Alexandra Palace in 1876, beating Alice Mary Smith's into second place. Fortunately, Smith's first two symphonies are available on CD.
Wouldn't it be marvellous if the manuscript of Raff's lost E minor symphony of 1854 reappeared?
Lew
How about the Symphonies of Godard?
I have a poor radio recording of Godard's Symphonie Orientale. It's in five movements, named: I. Les Éléphants II. Chinoiserie III. Sara la Baigneuse IV. Le rêve de la Nikia V. Marche Turque. You can probably imagine what it's like, but let's just say that it's not a German symphony!
As for Raff's lost E minor Symphony, Raff probably destroyed it, retaining just the two movements which later appeared in the Suite for Orchestra No.1. Considering how rare it is to find a manuscript of even a published Raff work (because he placed no value on them himself), it's highly unlikely that it'll ever come to light.
I'd much rather someone find Villa-Lobos's 5th myself. Yeah not too romantic, but I adore the rest of em.
Also, Krommer has at least two symphonies that, unless they are on Supraphon or otherwise very OOP, have yet to be recorded.
There are two symphonies by Krommer available on Chandos - samples here...
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/SESSIONID/fb2168f227aec203db41480801eeeed3/classic/detail/-/art/Franz-Krommer-Symphonien-op-40-op-102/hnum/7061471 (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/SESSIONID/fb2168f227aec203db41480801eeeed3/classic/detail/-/art/Franz-Krommer-Symphonien-op-40-op-102/hnum/7061471)
...and at least two others which haven't been recorded.
Lew,
In his programme notes for the 1992 Chandos recording of Stanford's 1st symphony, Lewis Foreman mentions the fact that Davenport, who apparently beat Stanford into 2nd place in the competition, happened to be the son-in-law of one of the judges, Sir George Macfarren. He makes no mention of Alice Mary Smith coming 3rd with her 3rd Symphony. Many thanks for that bit of information. It would certainly be nice to hear both it and Davenport's winning entry. Then we could judge for ourselves which one was the best.
They'd have to be good: Stanford 1 is a glorious piece.
Napravnik was a prominent conductor, and a main figure in the late-nineteenth century music scene in Russia, well-known to composers like Tchaikovsky and Rimski-Korsakov. There are four symphonies All in all and none have been recorded that I know of ..
Svendsen :'( his 3rd symphony would of probably have been a glorious one.
Hi all
Many thanks for the gentle funny/unfunny reminder of the loss of Svendsen's 3rd symphony. A pity - but was the story related to domestic problems, or was it concocted to to cover Svendsen's descent into substance abuse?
On a different tangent (but still possibly alcohol related), the five unpublished symphonies of Belgian composer Hendrik Waelput (1845-1885) are still awaiting publication or performance attention at their current resting place in the library of the Ghent Conservatory. He lost a key job at Bruges for alleged grog abuse in around 1871. The horrors of musical politics surely earn Waelput's symphonies a place on a wants list...
regards
Peter
Josef Holbrooke: Dramatic Choral Symphony "Hommage to E.A. Poe"; Symphony No. 2 "Apollo and the Seaman"; Symphony No. 3 "Ships"; Symphony No. 4 "Hommage to Schubert".
Chaminade: Choral Symphony "Les Amazones".
Godard: Choral Symphony "Tasso".
Alnaes: 2 symphonies.
Leopold Damrosch: Symphony.
Havergal Brian: Symphony No. 5
Sacheverell Coke: 3 symphonies.
And, naturally, all those listed by Alan and Mark!
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 04 June 2009, 09:19
Alnaes: 2 symphonies.
Of course! How could I forget Alnaes? After hearing his wonderful piano concerto on Hyperion I'm even more eager than before to hear the symphonies.
A few other names:
Paul Juon
Paul Ladmirault
Jenö Hubay
Zygmund Stojowski
Theodore Dubois
Georgy Catoire
Sergei Vasilenko
Quote from: peter_conole on Thursday 04 June 2009, 08:42
Hi all
Many thanks for the gentle funny/unfunny reminder of the loss of Svendsen's 3rd symphony. A pity - but was the story related to domestic problems, or was it concocted to to cover Svendsen's descent into substance abuse?
I feel constrained to point out, Peter, that both can be simultaneously true. He may have gotten his symphony torched for stepping out, but I'll bet he never attempted another one because he was too drunk at that point.
This isn't exactly a wish list addition but a mention - The French composer Alberic Magnard. There has been 2 very good recordings of his 4 symphonies - A sort of rustic french Mahler without the opressive fixation on death and pessimism. I enjoy it a lot. Was wondering there must be list of French Symphonies waiting for a hearing !?!
Quote from: FBerwald on Friday 05 June 2009, 00:52
This isn't exactly a wish list addition but a mention - The French composer Alberic Magnard. There has been 2 very good recordings of his 4 symphonies - A sort of rustic french Mahler without the opressive fixation on death and pessimism. I enjoy it a lot. Was wondering there must be list of French Symphonies waiting for a hearing !?!
Hello FBerwald,
have you listened to the symphonies of Guy Ropartz (available on Timpani)? In my opinion not quite as good as Magnard's 3rd and 4th, but if you like Magnard there is reason to believe that you might like Ropartz as well.
I forgot to mention all the surviving symphonies of Cipriani Potter. I think there are around 10 of them.
How about the symphonies of Potter's pupil William Sterndale Bennett? His symphony in G minor, op. 43, is recorded (I have it on the Lyrita label), but he composed five of which four survived. His op. 43 is a symphony in four movements, in the style of his friend Mendelssohn, and thus very pleasant to listen to. How about his other symphonies? Any member ever heard one of these? Are they recorded?
Where are they? Do you know the whereabouts of the scores and/or parts?
Gareth, most of the Sterndale Bennett manuscripts are in the hands of his great great great grandson(hope I've got the right number of greats) Barry Sterndale Bennett who I believe moved from Hampshire to London a few years back after his gardening expert wife died. I gather, from what his late wife told me when we went to visit her garden once, that he is always glad to let people come and study these scores. No doubt you could look him up in the telephone directory.
Peter, as far as I know, only one of Sterndale Bennett's youthful symphonies has been recorded and that was issued on the now defunct Unicorn Kanchana lable coupled with his 4th Piano Concerto.
Gareth, Sterndale Bennett's Symphony in G minor is released in 2005 on the Classico label and coupled with Potter's Symphony #7 in F major. I have Bennett's G minor Symphony on the Lyrita label, released in 2007, a disc which is filled with four Overtures (The May Queen, The Wood Nymphs, The Naiades and Parisina). Just surf to mdt.co.uk and you will find these discs offered.
All very pleasant music. I think William Sterndale Bennett deserves an own thread, because he wrote more lovely music to be explored. I'm very fond of the 3 volumes of Piano Works on Marco Polo. In fact, Marco Polo as a label deserves a thread for daring to release all those beautiful unsung non-commercial music over the past years... :)
Marco Polo; there's an idea for a thread, Peter; though I suspect opinion would be divided!
Steve
My biggest shock with Marco Polo came when the deleted all 3 of the symphonies had issued of Franz Lachner in 2003, his bi-centenary year!
Hello everybody,
It is has been some time since the last entry in this thread but as I have joined this forum yesterday this is all pretty new to me. I'd like to add some composers:
Waldemar von Bausznern (8 symphonies!)
Hugo Kaun
Max Trapp (7 symphonies!)
Heinz Tiessen
Fritz Brun (9 symphonies!)
Karl Bleyle
Paul Buettner
Ewald Straesser
Robert Volkmann
Robert Fuchs
Of all these composers I have a recording, mostly from a (poor) radio broadcast. While they may not be really great symphonists their compositions are often interesting and sometimes appealing.
Volkmann's symphonies are on CPO: http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=12678&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=35069 (http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/Drilldown?name_id1=12678&name_role1=1&bcorder=1&comp_id=35069)
Something a little closer to home (my home in New York, that is)...
George Frederick Bristow's choral symphony "Niagara" (like the Mendelssohn Hymn of Praise: 3 symphonic movements capped by a sort of cantata.)
Henry Hadley's Symphony no. 5 of 1935, the "Connecticut"
Charles Wakefield Cadman's 1939 "Pennsylvania Symphony"
Just going back to Black's list, Robert Fuchs' three symphonies have been issued on two CDs by Thorofon and most (if not all) of those by Fritz Brun have come out on Guild. I'd certainly echo his suggestion of the symphonies of Paul Bütner, Ewald Strässer and Max Trapp. I have at pair of the former's symphonies and radio recordings of one by each by the latter two and find them very rewarding in their late romantic way. Karl Bleyle's music is also most enjoyable, although I have never heard one of his symphonies.
I have all the Charles Tournemire symphonies on cd.
I cannot understand their neglect.Fascinating music.
Sorry to be pedantic, Mark, but Guild have released only 5, 9 & 10 of Brun's symphonies in modern recordings plus, most recently, No. 8 in an historic recording with the composer himself conducting, while Sterling have given us No. 3. I can't find recordings of any of the others. Please correct me, if I am wrong. I hope I am, because I'd like to hear the others.
Brun's 2nd is on the Gallo label...
http://www.vdegallo.ch/cd_det.asp?NoCD=838 (http://www.vdegallo.ch/cd_det.asp?NoCD=838)
I would like to explore more of the Poe works that Holbrooke did. There is a Marco Polo and this newer CPO.
Thomas
The Marco Polo is well worth hearing for the Raven & The Bells Prelude.
Going back to symphonies. I would love to hear those of Stanley Bate.Chandos say they are interested.And what
about Gaze Cooper?
Thanks for the info. about Brun's No. 2, Alan.
"...and what about Gaze Cooper?" Hear,hear! What about Gaze Cooper? But where are his MSS? And what about Richard Sacheverell Coke? Very little of his music was published. His MSS are in the Coke-Steel Archive at Chesterfield Library in Derbyshire, but I have not seen them and do not know what is extant, and details of the archive are not available online.
My assertion that "most (if not all) Brun's symphonies are now available" was clearly wishful thinking, Gareth, and I cheerfully withdraw it with apologies.
Let us hope your wishful thoughts (and mine) are realised, Mark.
So Gaze Cooper's mss could be hard to track down?
See this article on Gaze Cooper: http://www.kith.org/jimmosk/barnett.html
As he was a Nottingham composer, there is a good chance that his MSS, if not held by his daughter, Sylvia Pike, are in the County Music Library. Doubtless Rob Barnett (the author of the article and a great champion of lesser known British composers) would be able to help.
Correction: when I wrote RICHARD Sacheverell Coke, I meant ROGER Sacheverell Coke. Apologies.
What about the splendidly named August Bungert. One
of his symphonies is about a Zeppelin,I believe?
By the way,does anyone know whether cpo will be doing
the symphonies of Cornelis Dopper?
Quote from: Pengelli on Friday 21 August 2009, 17:23
By the way,does anyone know whether cpo will be doing
the symphonies of Cornelis Dopper?
Not to my knowledge. The 3rd, 5th and 6th symphonies have been done (well) by Chandos years ago.
The First Symphony was recorded some time ago, but still awaits publication. Same for the rather fine Viola Concerto. The fourth symphony is a gargantuan affair, but the problem is that the score is in ms only, and there are no parts. A Noteworthy job, then, but it's going to be expensive from every angle. The fifth is more modest, but I know of no plans to record.
Finally, the Requiem will be premiered on November, 19, in Dopper's birth town of Stadskanaal, as part of this year's Dopper festival (http://www.s3producties.nl/ (http://www.s3producties.nl/)). That's going to be quite an event.
Dopper's symphonies 2, 3 & 6 were recorded by Chandos. No. 7 appeared with the Ciacona Gotica on an Nmc CD. I'm glad to hear that No. 1 has been recorded and may some time be released. Which label has done it, Ilja, and any chance of a recording of the Requiem?
BBC Music Magazine ridiculed Dopper's 2nd symphony.
I got the cd in spite and loved every minute of it.
Well that's just a reflection on the ignorant snobs who people the BBC!
His music reminds me of the old US 50's tv show,'The Honey Mooners'."You're a riot (Alice) Dopper"!
Can you tell us anything about Dopper's Viola Concerto, please, Ilja?
Sorry, Alan, I got things mixed up. There is a recording of Dopper's Cello Concerto with Anner Bylsma and the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic under Maurits van den Berg. A very entertaining piece, with typically Dopperian folksy melodies.
The Viola Concerto I thought of was Samuel de Lange's, played by Jürgen Kussmaul on viola and the Omroeporkest conducted by Leo Driehuys. A very fine piece, I think.
Attempt to have this (and the First Symphony) released have sofar hit a snag in the form of the bureaucracy surrounding the Dutch broadcasting institutions, and the fact that not only the orchestra, the publisher, and the conductor need to be paid, but also the broadcasting companies (of which we have well over a dozen). Don't. get. me. started.
Sounds like they're as bad, (or even worse?), than the
BBC!
I wish someone would hurry up & find and record Fould's
Symphony of East & West!
Brians 5th has waited far too long for a recording. I like
the most recent broadcast performance best (not BRC).
Andre Gedalge, especially his 3rd.
"I wish someone would hurry up & find and record Fould's
Symphony of East & West! "
Why not have a go yourself? Finding it, I mean, not recording it. What is known about the circumstances of its composition?
It would be an excuse to go India! Perhaps a tv channel
would pay for an investigative documentary.
Or a non fiction book along those lines. He died there,of course. An enigmatic maverick. Plenty of scope there!
Go for it!
Stenhammar's would have been a Great Third Symphony but only a fragment remains. I recall he married a shrew who threw the manuscript into the fire during an argument (have I got this right?)
I'd liked to hear the little bit of Rott's 2nd that survives (probably even less than Stenhammar's but originally there may have been more).
Re Foulds: I shall book tickets. Sacheverell Coke? Is his
music a bit like York Bowen's?
Quote from: Paul Barasi on Wednesday 26 August 2009, 22:31
Stenhammar's would have been a Great Third Symphony but only a fragment remains. I recall he married a shrew who threw the manuscript into the fire during an argument (have I got this right?)
You may have it half right. Apparently Wilhelm had (ahem) an eye for the ladies. Whether this was because his wife was a shrew or she was a shrew as a result of his indiscretions is debatable. He still could have recomposed his 3rd Symphony (or composed another), but he didn't.
Wasn't it Svendsen's 3rd which ended life in this fashion?
It was indeed. I just noticed that the last name was wrong. Stenhammar composed as many symphonies as he wanted to.
There are fairly extensive sketches for the 3rd symphony. However, Stenhammars health was fragile and he found it difficult to find the strength and inspiration to finish large scale works during his last years (the symphonic cantata The Song being the exception). He was also planning a 3rd Piano Concerto and an opera based on Shakespeares Twelfth Night, but neither was completed (the concerto is hardly even a fragment).
Maybe someone like Anthony Paine could have a look at the 3rd symphony... ::)
Quote from: Syrelius on Thursday 27 August 2009, 19:49
There are fairly extensive sketches for the 3rd symphony.
Really? The recording, such as it is, (I think it's on Chandos), is all of 3:38. Would love to hear more.
QuoteReally? The recording, such as it is, (I think it's on Chandos), is all of 3:38. Would love to hear more.
Chandos recorded the few bars that were in full score. There are 15 more pages of sketches for the first movement and 25-30 pages for the three other movements. The plan was as follows:
I Allegro
II Scherzo
III Adagio (or possibly Andante)
IV Finale.
Apparantly, there are only a few bars of the Finale. :(
In reply # 13 peter_conole mentioned the 5 unpublished symphonies by the Belgian composer Hendrik Waelput. I happen to have an old radio broadcasting recording of Waelput's 2nd symphony. It might be unfair to judge his symphonic output by one performance of one symphony but I think the neglect of this composer is not entirely unjustified.
On the other hand I think the 5 symphonies by an other Belgian composer, Josef Ryelandt, deserve more attention than they get nowadays.
A couple of years ago I was able to get a local symphony in Minnesota to perform the second movement (Andante no.1 - there were two versions) of Hartmann's Symphony no. 4. I can create a reasonable recording of some of his things with Garritan sounds. The orchestra and conductor liked the piece very much. It's beautiful and effective music.
Quote from: Pengelli on Friday 21 August 2009, 17:20
What about the splendidly named August Bungert. One
of his symphonies is about a Zeppelin,I believe?
The Zeppelin's Great Flight
It is mentioned in the same article from 1909 as "Gustav Mahler's latest symphony":
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedailymirror/2009/11/new-symphony-uses-car-horn.html
There are two Symphonies (in D minor and C major) by Gerhard von Keußler (1874-1949), a composer who was more famous for his oratorios (eg. "Jesus von Nazareth", "Zebaoth") during his lifetime. Both symphonies remained unpublished and their scores are situated in the Goethe-und-Schiller-Archiv in Weimar. They are both large scale works of probably 40 or 50 minutes duration, which contain the traditional four mouvement form, but should be played without a pause. Keußler's style is highly contrapunctal. I haven't yet studied the symphonies very much, but regarding the oratorios and some songs, which I own, Keußler seems to be comparable with composers as Pfitzner, Wetz and Wilhelm Petersen.
It would be surely interesting to listen to Keußlers symphonies, as would be a revival of his oratorios.
For those who can read German, there's more information here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_von_Keu%C3%9Fler (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_von_Keu%C3%9Fler)
Thank you for the link, Alan. For further reading, there was also a book published (in German language) about Keußler's oratorios not very long ago. I don't know it, but it must contain much information for it is more than 600 pages large.
Manuel Krönung: Die Oratorien des Gerhard von Keußler (1874-1949). Musik mit "Ethos".