The Utah Symphony under Music Director Thierry Fischer will record live (with "patch" sessions) all five Saint-Saens symphonies during the 2017-2018 season, with other assorted more popular orchestral compositions of the composer to fill out the three CDs. Trois tableaux symphoniques d'après La Foi will also be recorded. As far as I can tell with somewhat limited access to all relevant discographic histories, the latter piece is a real rarity on recordings -- Amazon only shows a 2000 CD release on the Pan Classics label with the Basler Sinfonie-Orchester under Ronald Zollman. I would expect the first recording to be released in late 2018, although I have not been able to discern any official dates. Saint-Saens in not exactly an unsung composer, but his four symphonies beyond the "Organ" certainly are unsung compositions.
Fischer has been Music Director here in Salt Lake City since the 2009 season, and has helped to dramatically increase the passion, polish and color of the orchestra after somewhat of a hiatus after legendary music director Maurice Abravanel ended his decades-long tenure in the late 1970s. Fischer has just renewed his contract through the 2021-2022 season. From personal contact with key members of the Symphony's artistic administration, I know that Fischer has attempted to get Hyperion to agree to proposals for recordings for a number of years. Here is a link to the relevant webpage of the Utah Symphony:
http://www.utahsymphony.org/17-18press#
Recent commercially released recordings by the Utah Symphony have not been of unsung composers or compositions. Fischer and the Utah Symphony have released two recordings/CDs on the Reference Recordings label in the last few years, just to provide a little discographic update for these upcoming Hyperion recordings. These released recordings include Mahler 1 and an Andrew Norman, Augusta Read Thomas, Nico Muhly disc -- all living composers. Alexander Nevsky was recorded last November and should be released by the end of the year, while a Mahler 8 recording made in February 2016, which was to be released soon, appears to have been moved to a 2018 release.
Although Naxos has ventured in recent years into the Saint-Saens complete symphonies with the Malmo Symphony and Marc Soustrot, the number of recorded cycles beyond that one in discographic history is still rather limited -- Martinon, I believe, to be exact -- but I still could be incorrect.
I have followed this online forum for a number of years and appreciate its level of detail, debate, and knowledge. Thank you.
What would really be cool is if they recorded the three fragmented symphony movements, though I'm not clear on how much exists of those.
Still, there's one orchestral Saint-Saens piece that has eluded me -- Overture d'Un Opera Comique Inacheve, Op. 140 (despite the number it's a really early work IIRC).
There's also some incidental music, the orchestral version of the Serenade in Eb, Op. 15 (supposedly), and orchestrations of Gavotte in c, Op. 23 and Valse Nonchalante, Op. 110.
But, ya know, instead we'll get Danse Macarbe, Marche Militaire Francaise (MAYBE the whole suite if lucky), Le Rouet d'Omphale, La Jeunesse d'Hercule and Phaeton.
When the Utah Sym first recorded those Mahler symphonies of course there were very few Mahler complete cycles around... things change :)
Those three symphony movements sound like a tasty proposal. I didn't know anything about those. What are they then?
First I'd to sort out what Utah is, but now I know 8) Do they have a proper organ to make the recording of the 3rd symphony as splendid as possible?
Briefly (very!) it's the 45th state of the United States of America, added in 1896. The Utah Symphony has a website at www.utahsymphony.org (http://www.utahsymphony.org).
One can get those recordings of Mahler's numbered symphonies (not 10 though, or Das Lied, or Klagende... but some rather good Mahler song recordings as extra tracks) by the Utah Symphony (and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir) cheaply as a download at Amazon. On the history see http://www.utahsymphony.org/the-orchestra (http://www.utahsymphony.org/the-orchestra).
In the 10-CD bargain box MUSICAL CONCEPTS MC 182, the Adagio of Symphony 10 is included, alongside with Symphonies 1-9. The first pressing of this CD re-issue had wrong entries (misplaced movements on CDs) and I wrote them to correct this, which they did. The 4-pages booklet is merely symbolical, in there too, there were some mistakes. Abravanel did a great jobv with the Mormons. It's good that this pioneering (originally well-balanced) enterprise is available again, in good transfers, the Symphonies were recorded between 1963 and 1974! Beverly Sills is the soloist in Symphony 2 and Natania Davrath in Symphony 4.
In my collection I have all complete Mahler Symphonies which have, so far, been recorded by a single conductor, this makes 28 boxes :-)
Abravanel's splendid Tchaikovsky and Brahms recordings also have been re-iussued on CD, this on VOX and on VANGUARD. His pioneering 2-CD "Homage to Satie" on VOX.
Thierry Fisher is an excellent conductor of French Music, so I am looking foward to this!
As far as an organ goes, I'm sure that they could use the one at the main Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City. You know. The same one the Mormon Tabernacle Choir uses.
That's where they've done the 3rd in the past. Abravanel Hall is smaller without a "real" organ. But I have to say, that some of the recent digital organs are remarkable. They sound fantastic, deliver bone-shattering bass, brilliant highs and best of all - they stay in tune!
Abravanel's Mahler cycle was the first I had in the bad old LP days. Compared to later sets, it's just a non-starter, sorry to say. If you had been to a live performance of any of them you would likely walk away happy. Best of the set is the 4th. Its lighter scoring suited Abravanel. The recorded sound is better here than in the rest, too. The 2nd is pretty good overall. The big instrumental ones (5. 6. 7. 9) are just lacking weight, power and depth. The 7th was interesting only because it was the first recording of the newly printed Mahler Society score. The 8th pales in comparison to its contemporary recordings from Bernstein, Kubelik, Solti or even Wyn Morris. As a whole, the orchestra could be proud of their achievement, but alas, there are many better options. I don't think much of his Tchaikovsky either. Dull stuff compared to the likes of Bernstein and Karajan. Still, you have to give the man and his record companies (Vanguard or Vox) credit for taking on some repertoire which at that time was rare: Manfred Symphony, Gottschalk and others.
The tableaux from La Foi also appeared as part of Plassons' 1997 Toulouse Organ Symphony 2cd set with Cypres et Lauriers. Somewhat oddly, La Foi was assigned a disc of its own even though the three tableaux only run 32+ minutes. The setting is ancient Egypt, so there are elements of exoticism in the music, a certain grandeur in parts and a general feeling that the subject didn't really fire Saint-Saens' imagination. A late-ish work, from 1907.
David
Out December 2018, can't wait https://www.mdt.co.uk/saintsaens-symphony-no-3-organ-utah-symphony-thierry-fischer-hyperion.html
too bad the MDT staff felt the need for a mildly snarky introductory blurb, even if they redeem themselves afterwards..........poor Saint-Saens, I don't know another major composer (and to me he really IS major) thet gets so patronised..I guess facility of writing and great success (without having to die first) weigh against him.
FWIW that Serenade orchestral version I mentioned above came out on a Naxos disc earlier this year.
Nice to see another recording of La Foi....the Bacchanale, not so much x.x
I've been around a while, and I still can't make sense of the recording industry. Let's be honest: how much interest could there possible be in this repertoire? Ok, the 3rd symphony is pretty popular, but unless a newcomer has some really special insight, how can you compete with the likes of Munch, Ormandy, Levine, Dutoit and some other classics? It can't be the sound since Hyperion doesn't mess around with SACD or Blu Ray. Those few people who care to hear the other symphonies already have a superb set on EMI from Martinon. But then I can't figure out who buys enough of the Romantic Piano Concerto series to make it profitable. For my money, there's a lot of Massenet that still needs recording.
QuoteOk, the 3rd symphony is pretty popular, but unless a newcomer has some really special insight, how can you compete with the likes of Munch, Ormandy, Levine, Dutoit and some other classics?
Quite right. Try the lumbering start of the finale here:
https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68201 (https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68201)
"The prospect of a little-known Saint-Saëns orchestral work might not set the heart racing". What??? Hyperion's management need to check what their advertising copywriters are doing.
Quite so. Its inclusion here would be my reason for buying the CD!
Don't forget the complete Saint-Saens Symphonies under Jean Martinon (EMI, 1973).
actually those sound snippets are enticing..where Alan Howe hears lumbering I hear a real maestoso, but in truth I never cared for the whirlwind, slam-bang performing approach toward the S.S. 3, à la Munch, to cite the most famous example--
I always felt that it reduces this gorgeous. innovative and complex opus to a showpiece, which is only a part of the story.
I believe i will add this to the roster of my 3rds (I have at least 6 or 7 , this is one of the few pieces where I like to have different versions)
and yes , Mark Thomas is totally right: in my previous post I had attributed the stupid (and self-defeating!) snide remark to MDT..instead it comes directly from Hyperion's website....even worse.
Let's not get too stuck on S-S's 3rd Symphony, which is hardly unsung, but concentrate here on its far less familiar companion on the CD.
Quote from: TerraEpon on Thursday 25 October 2018, 02:37
FWIW that Serenade orchestral version I mentioned above came out on a Naxos disc earlier this year.
Nice to see another recording of La Foi....the Bacchanale, not so much x.x
THANK YOU for drawing our attention to this - wow what a beautiful piece - 6 minutes of utter serenity. Have had it on loop ever since buying yesterday (seriously, I need to stop that...).
Quote from: TerraEpon on Thursday 25 October 2018, 02:37
FWIW that Serenade orchestral version I mentioned above came out on a Naxos disc earlier this year.
Nice to see another recording of La Foi....the Bacchanale, not so much x.x
Hello TerraEpon - in what other versions does this Serenade exist apart from the orchestral one?
There's a version for Violin, Viola, Harp and Organ on the disc "Triumphal Music for Organ and Orchestra" released by Guild (a great CD along with its companion, "Masterworks for Organ & Orchestra")
Has anyone purchased the set as yet, and thoughts on the other four symphonies? I am particularly interested in the unpublished Symphony "Urbs Roma", which Martinon does to perfection [my opinion]. Despite that I would love to have additional recordings, showing different view points. I have the Soustrot recording, which I enjoy, but prefer Martinon. [Rather like the slower pacing in the snippets of the Symphony #3]. And the Symphony #2 is another masterpiece- how does it fare in this new set?
No. I'm not convinced - yet. I'd have to try the CDs to find out. All I can say so far is that what I've heard of the performance of No.3 isn't very encouraging. Of course, there's not exactly a lot of competition in the other symphonies...
I tend to agree with Alan re. the performance of No. 3. Unfortunately, it is that CD which contains the real rarity: the Trois tableaux.
As an aside, if I may, what is your view, Hadrianus, of the Martinon set - performances AND recording quality? I used to have the Martinon 3 on LP (the HMV Greensleeve disk with Rouet d'Omphale and Danse Macabre played by another orchestra under Pierre Dervaux), but I'm afraid I got rid of all my LPs years ago and I never invested in the other symphonies.
Martinon's Saint-Saens: I have only the first EMI CD transfers (realised in 1989) and don't know whether they had been reprocessed again for the recent Martinon box.
In any case, since they had been issued (on LP,) I am perfectly happy living with those splendid 1975 recordings with the ORTF National Orchestra (as with Martinon's Ravel and Debussy). It's the appropriate sensuous French approach, with a genuine French Orchestra. The engineering has the typical Salle Wagram reverberation of that time, but it's great. Martinon was the right "gentleman conductor" for such music.
On the other hand, I consider that one must also have Karajan's magnificent "two nations" recording (1982, a Berlin orchestra and a Paris organ) of the "Organ" Symphony" (in my opinion, a more fascinating "larger bow" interpretation than Martinon's). The organ is the one of Notre-Dame's Cathedral. Martinon's recording is a "pure French" one; he uses the instrument of Les Ivalides.
Of course I still cherish Ansermet's Decca of the "Organ Symphony", which was the first which made me acquainted with this wonderful work - and with Saint-Saens anyway. It's one of Ansermet's best recordings of the 1960's - with an excellent sound balance.
Martinon's most exciting recording on EMI is the LP/CD with Florent Schmitt's "La Tragédie de Salomé" and "Psaume 47" - which (as far as I can remember) was never re-issued on separate CDs, only as a part of an anthology. This would deserve a super adio re-issue; it's sound is gorgeous - and the interpretations unforgettable. A FLAC version can be downloaded.
If Hyperion will use the usual Mormon Temple Hall, suppose the new UTAH recordings with Thierry Fischer will also come up with some more reverberation, considering what was done in the past with Maurice Abravanael's LPs :-)
I've had the Martinon for a long time as well and they are exemplary. I can't think of better performances to make a case for these works than those. With the exception of the hybrid ''Organ'' symphony I don't think Saint Saen's best is to be found in his symphonies. He was far better at concertos and chamber genres in my view.
I agree that Martinon's performances are pretty well unbeatable; however, the recording quality is very reverberant and a lot of detail goes missing as a result.
There are other performances of Symphonies 1 and 2 that ought to be considered, namely Prêtre, Inbal, Soustrot and Dumay (1). I wonder if someone has any of these?
Let's not forget Kantorow's cycle with the Tapiola Symphony (on Ondine, IIRC). Particularly good in the two early symphonies and Urbs Roma.
I think that Yondani Butt did a very good job with n.2 on ASV, no doubt aided immensely by great playing from the LSO.
Pretre I like very much, quite sophisticatedly French, even if the orchestra was Austrian.
In general I like Soustrot, even if his Third i find uninspired..but his Urbs Roma displaced Kantorow's, which is very good but i don't think did really justice to what is after all a rather large scale piece, using a smallish orchestra.
The Third is one of my "totem" pieces, I buy most of them and them I select them for collecting: lately I got an absolutely first-class one from Pentatone: Kazuki Yamada and the Suisse Romande, with tempi that, for once, I find perfectly judged.
If you are in the mood for the perverse pleasure of a really crazy Saint-Saens Third try the Swedish Radio Symphony with Svetlanov, none the less.
It is, or was, on youtube, too.
His tempi make a Celibidache look like an impetuous quicksilver, never heard anything like that , even Eschenbach with the Philadelphia Orchestra seems a model of restraint.
I really love Svetlanov's recording of the Saint-Saens' Third- massive, slow, but never slack! He was a great conductor and clearly had the Swedish orchestra playing at their peak. It is such a good antidote to the recent trend for too fast and anemic, undersized orchestras. I find that Martinon's superb recordings from 1975 remain the standard for the first four symphonies. Martinon really brings out the magic of the "Urbs Roma" Symphony, better than anyone else- though I definitely enjoy Soustot's recording too. And Martinon's knife edge playing of the Second symphony, another masterpiece, is riveting. [one opinion, of course, but based on 50+ years of listening]. thank you.
Here's Svetlanov in S-S3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqiqMjBW-o0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqiqMjBW-o0)
Way over the top...
Yes, perhaps "over the top"... but as Mae West famously said: "Too much of a good thing...is wonderful!"
Not in this piece, I fear.
Anyway: S-S 3 isn't unsung, so back to the other symphonies, please...
Agree, such a great work. So, has anyone actually heard the first 4 symphonies in this series? The set received a generally negative review in the American Record Guide by the editor, Donald Vroon, but I am really interested in hearing from members here. thank you.
I won't be getting them. Can't see the point. There are perfectly good alternatives available.
Mjmosca is incorrect: Donald Vroon gave the first volume of this series, which includes La foi, what I would consider an almost neutral review, which is a rare perspective to encounter, especially from him. He neither smothered it with accolades, nor dismissed it as irrelevant and inconsequential.
On the other hand, Gil French, another editor and reviewer at American Record Guide, reviewed the second release in the series, which includes the Symphony No. 2. His review is extremely negative, but, having heard all of the concert performances from which most of the recordings in this series were made, and having listened many times to each of the first two releases, I find his comments to be some of the most dispiriting and even vindictive I have ever encountered in a review. Naturally, as commentators here will understand, almost any release will eventually have a reviewer who finds the release superficial, irrelevant, or worse. But when a reviewer begins to imply that they know how to conduct and interpret the compositions better than an experienced conductor like Thierry Fischer, whatever his merits or weaknesses, one begins to question the bonafides of a reviewer -- it can all be so arbitrary.
I also find Mr. Howe's latest comment a bit perplexing. Just how many commercial recordings of the Urbs Roma Symphony have ever been made and commercially released? I count Martinon, Kantorow, Soustrot, and now Thierry Fischer. And for La foi I know of just three: Plasson, Zollman, and Thierry Fischer. And for the Symphony in A major: Joeres, Kantorow, Martinon, Soustrot, and Thierry Fischer. Yes, those others are "perfectly good alternatives," but that is a bit of a bizarre statement about a discography that is comparatively so limited. Strange times indeed.
it's just that there's so much wonderful reportoire that lies unrecorded or not satisfactorily recorded or underrecorded, and the Saint-Saens symphonies just do not fall in any of these categories.
Without discussing the actual merits of this cycle, I just think it's a perplexing chioce of employment of precious resources by Hyperion, in a time where to be able to record a symphonic cycle is a luxury, especially for an independent label.
I hope they had some financing or co-financing, maybe through some Utah Symphony donor, but all the same....
QuoteYes, those others are "perfectly good alternatives," but that is a bit of a bizarre statement about a discography that is comparatively so limited.
The discography is indeed limited, but there are some very fine recordings available. I have just bought Butt/ASV in Symphony No.2, for example, which is superb - the LSO at their very finest. I repeat: I can't see the point of Fischer, especially when there are so many (more important) symphonies as yet unrecorded, e.g. Grimm, Berger, Moór, Thieriot, Lachner, Rudorff, Abert, Hiller, Reinthaler.....
I have /zero/ insider data here but I have to imagine that presenting something as a complete series helps things sell better. When one of the pieces includes a superhit such as the 3rd here, even more so. On top of this while it was over 20 years ago now, Hyperion DID release a highly acclaimed set of the complete piano concerti. All this combined means that at least financially it probably wasn't a huge gamble. And yeah there may be other recordings, but are there more than two (EMI and BIS) complete ones?
This is all just a guess though.
I think you are right, TerraEpon. Sets sell. And I would be surprised if this set didn't have at least some sponsorship from Utah.