As part of their Historic Classics series, Dutton have just released radio broadcasts from 1959 of three Havergal Brian works conducted by Harry Newstone and Normal Del Mar, including the first performance of Symphony No.11:
http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDBP9798 (http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=CDBP9798)
I ordered mine from the Dutton website last Sunday! I just drifted on to the Havergal Brian website and lo and behold,there it was,the announcement of the release ,I mean! I used to have allot of these performances on cassette,thanks to the HB archive,(via a third party,I should point out)Since then my interest in HB has waned a little & I let my membership lapse. I am still interested enough to have ordered this and my hope is that that there will more releases of archive material of this nature. And not just of Havergal Brian.
Wish I had known about the Testament release,(of the 'Gothic'),before it was announced here. For Fifty quid I could have got my name in that booklet. As a teenager I drove my family crazy with cassette tapes of the Ole Schmidt & Boult performances! Still,I got to pre-order it,thanks to this website!
Thanks anyway,Albion!
It is very sad that we still do not have a good modern recording of Brian's 5th Symphony. The performance by Bryan Rayner Cook, which was available on a pirated LP, was excellent. It is one of Brian's finest works and its neglect is unaccountable.
Quote from: Pengelli on Friday 20 August 2010, 20:17
my hope is that that there will more releases of archive material of this nature. And not just of Havergal Brian.
I'm sure that we all have such wish-lists! Further to Brian, I recall that Martin Anderson's Toccata Classics label has recorded two discs of Brian's orchestral music including the very early
Burlesque Variations (1903) and excerpts from the later operas. Is there any further information as to when these eagerly-anticipated discs might be released?
You've got to have hope,haven't you! I think the 'Wine of Summer' is one of Brian's best. I really would have expected it to have been recorded by now. Aren't Cameo supposed to be interested in recording it? It would have to be a good performance. The soloists in some of those Marco Polo recordings of HB ruined the music for me. I also rather liked the performance broadcast as part of R3 'Composer of the Week'. I captured part of the performance on less than hi-fi tape,but not the whole piece,unfortunately.
For some reason the work has always been one of the less appreciated works in Brian's output. Yet,it has always been up there with my favourites. I suppose Brians choice of 'poetry' goes against it. Yet,if you value Brian's music at all, I would view a commercial recording of it as very important.
I would also like to see a really good recording of Brian's curiously eccentric third symphony. It doesn't really work for me,yet it has an oddly compelling quality. The hyperion recording was not one of their best!
Quote from: Albion on Friday 20 August 2010, 21:34
I recall that Martin Anderson's Toccata Classics label has recorded two discs of Brian's orchestral music including the very early Burlesque Variations (1903) and excerpts from the later operas. Is there any further information as to when these eagerly-anticipated discs might be released?
From John France's blog
The Land of Lost Content (2 April 2010):
Another exciting event in the Havergal Brian world is the release of a CD of his orchestral music. This is the first volume of a proposed series –at least a second volume has been announced. Toccata Classics write that 'this spring [they] will release the first of two new recordings of Havergal Brian's orchestral music made by Garry Walker and the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra in Glasgow this past summer. The works range from Brian's first surviving orchestral score, the Burlesque Variations on an Original Theme of 1903, to the second-last work he composed, the 'Legend' Ave atque vale, written in 1968, when Brian was 92 – and a work bursting with defiant energy. The CD, catalogue number TOCC 0110, will be announced on the Toccata Classics website in a few weeks. The second volume (TOCC 0113), scheduled for autumn 2010, contains orchestral excerpts from Brian's operas, chief among them the nine-movement suite from Turandot.'
So far there has been no announcement on the Toccata site.
Between radio tapes and commercial recordings I've heard and enjoyed a whole lot of Brian, but have not yet heard Ave atque vale, I think! Been looking forward to it. Thanks, Martin Anderson and Toccata. :)
Received the new Dutton cd of 1959 studio performances of Brian,today. A very enjoyable cd,which reminded me just how intriguing & enjoyable Havergal Brian is,at his best & how much his music benefits from really good performances like the ones included here. An added plus,the mono recordings come up really well & there really is no reason at all for anyone to be put off by the age of these recordings. A truly outstanding release.
Quote from: Albion on Saturday 21 August 2010, 15:02
Quote from: Albion on Friday 20 August 2010, 21:34
I recall that Martin Anderson's Toccata Classics label has recorded two discs of Brian's orchestral music including the very early Burlesque Variations (1903) and excerpts from the later operas. Is there any further information as to when these eagerly-anticipated discs might be released?
From John France's blog The Land of Lost Content (2 April 2010):
Another exciting event in the Havergal Brian world is the release of a CD of his orchestral music. This is the first volume of a proposed series –at least a second volume has been announced. Toccata Classics write that 'this spring [they] will release the first of two new recordings of Havergal Brian's orchestral music made by Garry Walker and the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra in Glasgow this past summer. The works range from Brian's first surviving orchestral score, the Burlesque Variations on an Original Theme of 1903, to the second-last work he composed, the 'Legend' Ave atque vale, written in 1968, when Brian was 92 – and a work bursting with defiant energy. The CD, catalogue number TOCC 0110, will be announced on the Toccata Classics website in a few weeks. The second volume (TOCC 0113), scheduled for autumn 2010, contains orchestral excerpts from Brian's operas, chief among them the nine-movement suite from Turandot.'
So far there has been no announcement on the Toccata site.
Does anybody have any further information on these tantalising releases? There is still no announcement on Toccata's website even under the 'In preparation' section.
It seems the Toccata website only gets updated once in a while - and I'm very much hoping there is all sorts of activity going on at Toccata (besides the publication of that massive and impressive book on Busch!) that might soon be announced on their website.
In addition to the Havergal Brian project noted above I'm very much hoping there will be further releases in the Tovey chamber music series, and (although the name seems to find less favour on this site) the Matthews string quartets. Both Tovey and Matthews are proclaimed 'Volume 1' - and fingers very tightly crossed there will soon be a Volume 2 in each case. Past productions show that any Toccata release is a cause for celebration!
Can't resist riding on the back of this thread to put in a plug for David Matthews. I found the symphonies on Dutton very rewarding and satisfying, and if Toccata completed the string quartets, well, that would be real whoop-de-doo.
Peter
Quote from: petershott@btinternet.com on Sunday 12 December 2010, 13:02
It seems the Toccata website only gets updated once in a while - and I'm very much hoping there is all sorts of activity going on at Toccata (besides the publication of that massive and impressive book on Busch!) that might soon be announced on their website.
In addition to the Havergal Brian project noted above I'm very much hoping there will be further releases in the Tovey chamber music series, and (although the name seems to find less favour on this site) the Matthews string quartets. Both Tovey and Matthews are proclaimed 'Volume 1' - and fingers very tightly crossed there will soon be a Volume 2 in each case. Past productions show that any Toccata release is a cause for celebration!
Can't resist riding on the back of this thread to put in a plug for David Matthews. I found the symphonies on Dutton very rewarding and satisfying, and if Toccata completed the string quartets, well, that would be real whoop-de-doo.
I'll certainly second that! I was very struck by Matthews's First Symphony when it was premièred (although the composer has revised it substantially since) and the others all have a lot going for them, most epecially the Sixth whose première I attended. Though Matthews is a prolific composer (opus numbers now around 113 or so), I've never had the sense that he goes over the same or similar ground overmuch. The tango in the Fourth Symphony seems to have become something of an obsession for him, as he has arranged it for various numbers of instruments under the generic title
It Takes (x) to Tango; that for violin and piano, however, is simply called
It Takes....
A recorded series of all 12 Matthews quartets will indeed be most welcome!
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 20 August 2010, 21:19
It is very sad that we still do not have a good modern recording of Brian's 5th Symphony. The performance by Bryan Rayner Cook, which was available on a pirated LP, was excellent. It is one of Brian's finest works and its neglect is unaccountable.
As noted in another thread there is the 2001 BBC broadcast (re-broadcast a year later with another rebroadcast, one of Simpson's symphonies I think?... not sure.), which isn't a commercial recording, but then neither was the LP :) Strictly speaking it hasn't been recorded at all, alas. Marco Polo had plans at one point, I thought (or even a recording in the can?)
The exciting new release from Toccata (volume one) of Havergal Brian is now definitely scheduled for a 21st March release (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Toccata%2BClassics/TOCC0110 (http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Toccata%2BClassics/TOCC0110)) - personally I can't wait to hear professional performances of the Burlesque Variations and Ave atque vale! ;D
QuoteMarco Polo had plans at one point, I thought (or even a recording in the can?)
Yes, they did - with Brian Rayner Cooke - but the soloist was not in the best of health at the time of the recording and was so dissatisfied with the vocal quality of his own performance that he asked that it not be released. So it wasn't. At least, that is what I was told...
Just downloaded his songs from Amazon. I used to play the LP version over & over again as a teenager & I don't usually like English song! Wonderful record.
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 02 February 2011, 22:10
Brian Rayner Cooke was not in the best of health at the time of the recording and was so dissatisfied with the vocal quality of his own performance that he asked that it not be released.
That was indeed the case!
I always thought it a great pity that Marco Polo couldn't license some of the best BBC performances for commercial release (Mackerras in No.2 and No.27, Brian Rayner Cook's 5th, etc.) Ah, well ... ::)
So it WAS actually recorded by Marco Polo?
Quite Albion. All those wonderful recordings 'mouldering' away in their archives,although,I hasten to add, I'm sure they take good care of them!
It seems such a waste.
(Love to hear the Ralph Holmes performance of the 'Violin Concerto' again. Hint! Hint! Bet somebody's got it. Perhaps they'll stray onto this forum one fine day!).
I have just read somewhere that Naxos will be releasing a cd of Brian's Symphonies 22,23,24 & the English Suite No 1 at the end of February. Is this true or just a wind up? Anyone here know?
Apologies,I meant,'will be recording'!
Quote from: Pengelli on Thursday 03 February 2011, 00:41
I have just read somewhere that Naxos will be [recording] a cd of Brian's Symphonies 22,23,24 & the English Suite No 1 at the end of February. Is this true or just a wind up? Anyone here know?
If true, this would be very welcome news indeed! ;D
I've not come across any reference to such a project - can you divulge where you read about it?
Some of the trials and tribulations of the aborted Marco Polo Edition are related here: http://www.havergalbrian.org/marcopolo.htm (http://www.havergalbrian.org/marcopolo.htm)
The 'Havergal Brian' thread on the GMG Classical music forum. It was late & I DO like to treat such posts with caution! If it's untrue I may at least be eligible for some kind of booby prize!!! (There are allot of peculiar things on the internet,to say the least).
NB: If someone were to offer a million pound reward for the score of 'Prometheus Unbound' I wonder if it would mysteriously show up?
Like how the Apollo moon landings were faked!
(They were weren't they?).
You might get some people with some odd notions of what constituted "score" , Havergal Brian, or of "score of Prometheus Unbound by Havergal Brian".
Of the two,I'm glad,in a way,that it was 'The Tigers' which got found. I mean,obviously I'd prefer both,but 'The Tigers' shows Brian's humorous side & the fact that he wasn't all deadly serious symphonic monuments & funeral marches.
I think I'll go and have a look in my attic later,just in case!
Quote from: Pengelli on Thursday 03 February 2011, 00:41
I have just read somewhere that Naxos will be releasing a cd of Brian's Symphonies 22,23,24 & the English Suite No 1 at the end of February. Is this true or just a wind up? Anyone here know?
Your source is
very reliable indeed - apparently Naxos will record Symphonies 22, 23 & 24 plus English Suite No. 1 in Liverpool at the end of Feb. RLPO conducted by James Judd. ;D
Also, in addition to their all-Brian disc (Symphonies 10 & 30, Concerto for Orchestra, English Suite No.3), Dutton will simultaneously be releasing the cello concerto on a disc also including works by York Bowen and Alan Bush. My guess would be the Rhapsody in D, Op.74 by the former and the Concert Suite for Cello and Orchestra, Op.37 (1952) by the latter ;D ;D
Yeeeehooo! Not a very intellectual observation,but the fact that Naxos are finally 'continuing' their aborted series is wonderful news. Hopefully,the renaissance of interest in neglected composers like Brian,now,will mean this cd won't be the last from this source.
I wonder if the HBS are behind this?
Please excuse my scepticism,there have been so many disappointments with Havergal Brian projects.
There's no need for scepticism regarding the two Dutton discs featuring Brian which have just fallen through the letterbox:
(http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/prodimages/7267.gif)(http://www.duttonvocalion.co.uk/prodimages/7263.gif)
With a total timing of 82:25 for the Cello recordings, they've done the logical thing and given Brian's Concerto a second disc all to itself. This is fascinating programming, selected clearly with a wide knowledge of available repertoire - I'm really looking forward to listening to another substantial score by one of my favourites, York Bowen.
First impressions from the Symphony disc are extremely positive - a superb standard of playing and sonics: following a lull of over ten years, the Brian revival continues in some style! I'm afraid that another spin of Mallet Mischief will just have to wait ... ;D
having only heard the earlier recording of the cello concerto (I really need to go take advantage of the British Music Broadcasts thread and hear the Brian scores I haven't heard in years; I have just a tape of it...) I'm very glad there's a new recording finally :)
I'm not psychic, but I did have an uncanny 'feeling' that there would be some additional posts about HB today!
PS: Mine dropped through the letterbox this morning.
Quote from: Albion on Monday 14 March 2011, 14:40
With a total timing of 82:25 for the Cello recordings, they've done the logical thing and given Brian's Concerto a second disc all to itself.
Hmmm, technically that could fit onto a single disc, by 5 seconds.
I wonder if they may have to make these decisions sometimes before they know what the timings are going to be (archival performances excepted, of course) - I wouldn't know.
After hearing that bit with the organ in the 'English Suite' I couldn't take any more...................and pre-ordered the Toccata cd from hmv!
For me, the surprise of the cello disc(s) has been the Concert Suite by Alan Bush - gloriously lyrical, colourfully orchestrated and hugely entertaining, this is a real find. We should hear more of his music! There is an exemplary site devoted to this extremely unsung composer courtesy of the Alan Bush Music Trust - http://www.alanbushtrust.org.uk/default.asp?room=Home (http://www.alanbushtrust.org.uk/default.asp?room=Home) :)
A bit off topic, but for a long time the 4 English cello concertos at the top of my wish list have been those by Brian, Malcolm Arnold,
Robert Simpson, & John Foulds. Recently I acquired a broadcast recording of Simpson's CC, and believe Naxos is scheduled at some point to issue Arnold(?) - though I read an opinion somewhere of it being quite a lacklustre piece. With the Brian work now available that leaves Foulds. Anyone know of plans?
Hi Greg, I don't know of any concrete plans at the moment - although with the rate that Dutton is producing fantastic recordings (and they have clearly shown more than a passing interest in Foulds), it surely won't be too long before they get round to the Cello Concerto!
In the meantime you can listen to the 1988 broadcast (beautifully played by Raphael Wallfisch) available as a download from Folder 11 of BMB - http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,856.0.html (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,856.0.html) :)
I've been pondering just what it is about the new Dutton cello discs (York Bowen, Alan Bush and Havergal Brian) that I find so enormously appealing - it is the fact that this is (I think) only the second occasion when Brian has been included in a multi-composer recording (the other being ClassicO's RLPO recording of Psalm 23).
This approach makes a composer seem less of a 'freak' specialism, somebody of interest only to the dedicated minority, and places him nearer to his contemporaries in terms of importance and approachability. Brian (for many reasons) seems to be the sort of composer who is destined to be regarded as a somewhat isolated island in British music - this new release brings him perhaps slightly closer into the fold.
As to that, I'm almost positive the Festival Fanfare was included in a collection of similar works on a recording once, but I'm not quite sure. Will check...
Well, Brian in a multi-composer recording- there's the LP "Masters of the English musical renaissance : Hubert Parry, Havergal Brian, John Foulds / Luxembourg Radio Symphony Orchestra ; Leopold Hager." - I think that has music from the Tigers? Ah yes, it does. (Reissued on Forlane CD, 2007.) The other is the Fanfares LP from RCA from 1977, reissued on a Chandos CD, conducted by James Stobart (noted here (http://www.worldcat.org/title/fanfare-british-music-for-symphonic-brass-ensemble/oclc/298468322).) Worldcat shows one or two others (mostly from private labels I think, like George Heriot's school orchestra's own label.) Not gainsaying your overall point at all which is important...
Thanks - I'd completely forgotten about the Forlane recordings! ::)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51a26cBlIKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Although they had limited circulation, these were valuable for exactly the same reason as the present Dutton release, although the juxtaposition of Parry, Foulds and Brian was perhaps just slightly too eccentric: given the inclusion of Foulds and Brian, I remember that reviewers were quite naturally puzzled by the title chosen for the collection (the repertoire of which was largely an indication of the disparate enthusiasms of Bernard Benoliel).
Although not from Dutton, there is yet more good news for Havergal Brian fans in what is turning out to be a year of extraordinary activity: according to a post on another forum by a member of the Havergal Brian Society, the first entirely new recording of this composer's music on Naxos (as opposed to re-issues of Marco Polo originals) has been completed for release later in the year - Symphonies 22, 23 and 24 coupled with the early English Suite No.1. It should be a cracker of a disc with James Judd conducting the RLPO. ;D
I've heard for ages of a plan to record symphonies 22,23 and 24 as a next (and possibly last) instalment in the Marco Polo/Naxos series. I enjoy 22 and 24 much much more than enough (and will be glad enough to hear a new recording of 23- the broadcast of 23 on the Aries LP at the university library is ok) to want to hear them done perhaps even better, and Judd sounds to me like one of the best choices of conductors so far in the series, hopefully.
I hope it's OK if I dissent from what seems to be the prevailing enthusiasm for the later Brian. I find almost all of this music short-winded, rhythmically leaden-footed and altogether unlistenable. Apologies in advance: it's clearly my fault, but I've tried for years (I bought Malcolm MacDonald's 3-volume survey when it first came out in the hope that it would help, but I've always found that the music is more interesting in the describing than the listening).
Well, if it's your fault then it's mine too, Alan. I have long had a Brian blind spot and only recently has the veil begun to lift from my eyes. As a way in to his idiom I've been listening, and increasingly appreciating, some of his very earliest works such as the Burleske Variations, In Memoriam, Dr Merryheart and For Valour. Being lucky enough to have tickets to the Proms performance of the Gothic Symphony, in the last couple of weeks I've dusted off my copy of the Boult/BBC recording and have played that through a few times. I must admit that I still find a fair bit of gristle in places in the first three, purely orchestral, movements but the vast concluding Te Deum setting is an absolute marvel and I can't wait to experience it live.
Over the years I've accumulated a number of the later symphonies and some other odd orchestral pieces and I'll work my way through them too, confident that I'm at a last getting somewhere. I'm sure that it's going to be a slow job, though, as I still don't really understand the boundless admiration which so many people have for Brian's music.
I'm OK with most Brian until approx. WW2: I have enjoyed greatly most of what he wrote before this, but just can't get into the tightly compressed stuff that is, I guess, most characteristic of the last twenty-five years or so of his creative career. If you find the key to unlock him, Mark, do let me know...
I like MacDonald's comparison of the late stuff to fantasias (in the old instrumental motets sense, and with somewhat updated melody and harmony...) though subjectively and I know unhelpfully :( what really made me a fan of his later music was Mackerras' EMI recording of no.31, which I listened to many times (library recording at the time, not mine- I would listen to a number of 15-or-less minute pieces like that , Barber's op.1 serenade, Prokofiev's op.10 piano concerto, etc., many times between classes) in college. Between the atmosphere of the opening bells (or bell-like sounds? ... ) - and Mackerras (much missed - of course...) with his sure control (I think) of the opening paragraphs through to more difficult material - well, I think one has the combination of a very likable and varied piece (with two cadenzas...) conducted by an excellent guide. I'm really glad EMI, last I checked, had it back in circulation (I even have the Groves recording it's now in harness with, though separately.) (... ok, cduniverse and such places don't really have it - it seems to be out of print again. Figures. ... ... Erm.)
Quote from: Albion on Monday 23 May 2011, 07:41
according to a post on another forum by a member of the Havergal Brian Society, the first entirely new recording of this composer's music on Naxos (as opposed to re-issues of Marco Polo originals) has been completed for release later in the year - Symphonies 22, 23 and 24 coupled with the early English Suite No.1. It should be a cracker of a disc with James Judd conducting the RLPO.
Unfortunately, we may be in for a longer wait regarding this proposed Naxos recording: contrary to the information posted above, I have received the following corrective from another forum member -
the sessions with the RLPO were first delayed then cancelled after the RLPO had its grant cut, and they couldn't afford to make the disc. Currently Naxos is searching for another UK orchestra to do it - possibly the Ulster Orchestra - but it could all take months
If this is the case, it's a great pity as this disc promised to be another milestone in the Brian discography. :(
I am that other forum member. When the HBS Newsletter editor informed us this weekend another Brian recording was 'under our belt' I mistakenly thought he meant the Naxos recording. But that would have been recorded in June. I now realise he meant the recording for the second Toccata CD with orchestral music from Brian's operas.
Yes, it would be a pity if this lacuna in the Brian discography wasn't to be filled. No. 24, especially, is marvellous.
I've always thought Dutton is a genius (mainly because I can't stand background noise on recordings) but, remind me, why does everyone have a down on the Gothic Marco Polo?
If we are fortunate enough to get (at some point) another all-Brian disc from Dutton under the baton of Martyn Brabbins, I wonder which commercially-unrecorded works other members would like to see on it ...
???
... with a playing-time pushed to the limit, I'd especially welcome the following action-packed (and very varied) programme -
Symphony No.5, Wine of Summer (1937) - c.20 minutes
Symphony No.13 (1959) - c.18 minutes
Symphony No.24 (1965) - c.17 minutes
Symphony No.27 (1966) - c.22 minutes
All of these scores (especially No.27) have become firm favourites with me and it would be a treat to have modern digital recordings (especially if Roderick Williams was willing to take on the baritone solo in No.5).
;D
An excellent selection, Albion: 'Wine of Summer' would plug the gap in the first twelve, Thirteen is a lovely work too, and the other two would add to the very small number available in the twenties. Until my dream of a complete box set of all 32 comes true...
I thought that the Naxos plan was still to record Nos. 22, 23 and 24 together ???
If that project goes ahead then surely you should be looking for a different symphony to fit onto your (hypothetical) Dutton disc ;D
Symphony No.19 is 18 minutes long so it would fit onto the cd......just ;D
.....or we could get No.28 right this time. It is 15 minutes long so it would definitely fit.
At 20 minutes in length No.29 wouldn't fit.
As you know the symphonies which have not been commercially recorded are Nos. 5; 13; 14; 19; 23; 24; 26; 27; 28; and 29.
I know that Malcolm regards Nos. 14 and 26 as the least impressive of the canon. I disagree with him-and always have done-about No.14, a symphony I really enjoy ;D
have only heard 14 once, but have rather enjoyed 26. will have to give 14 another go soon.
It would be nice to hear 21 given a professional hearing too, especially since it was considered good enough to be one of the first two to be recorded commercially. I didn't realise Naxos/Marco Polo still had plans to continue the series: I assumed they had given up some years ago
I still assume so- and see nothing listed in their 2011-2012 catalog- but hope the news I haven't heard about is good?
Quote from: Dundonnell on Monday 09 January 2012, 02:32
I thought that the Naxos plan was still to record Nos. 22, 23 and 24 together ???
If that project goes ahead then surely you should be looking for a different symphony to fit onto your (hypothetical) Dutton disc ;D
If this Naxos project is still definitely 'in the pipeline' (members of the HB Society would probably be the first to know) then I would propose 5, 13, 19 and 27 as my Dutton 'want' instead, but Brabbins would have to keep one eye on the clock!
:o
It would be fascinating to know exactly how David Brown's original scheme for the Marco Polo edition was structured -
[After recording The Gothic] Mr Heymann agreed, and in collaboration with Malcolm MacDonald and Committee colleagues I devised couplings over 19 discs that took in the remaining 31 Symphonies, the two solo Concertos, the Concerto for Orchestra, the suites, the overtures, the other orchestral miscellanea, the choral works for which we have full scores, and orchestral extracts from the operas.
Putting the Cycle notionally together on paper was a privilege, and an absolutely fascinating exercise - and one in which personal views on the effect of works both individually and juxtaposed inevitably played a big part. Rightly or wrongly I went for maximum contrast - early with late, symphonic with non-symphonic, expansive with terse, 'cheerful' with 'gloomy' - rather than a thematic or chronological approach. Also, whether a work had been played before - and how frequently, and how long since the last (usually only!) performance - were factors, as were the forces involved: asking, for example , for a third pair of horns, a fourth trumpet, or a second harp for one piece only out of several was to be avoided if possible. Total duration of each disc was another consideration. Knowing how difficult and unfamiliar much of the music was, and the constraints of session time, I made no attempt to push the notional playing time of each CD beyond the 70-minute mark, and generally was happy with sets of pieces that added up to around 60 (in the event some of the couplings still proved over-ambitious). Finally, as works were 'used up', it got increasingly difficult to round off the final instalments as satisfactorily in 'programme' terms as the earliest had fallen into place.
In the end the couplings were prepared and presented. :)
Thanks for that, Albion. I'm afraid I let my HBS membership lapse some years ago. The internet spoils us all too much: those societies used to be the only way to find out about new releases, and as a teenager I belonged to about ten of them, though the HBS and the Sir Arthur Sullivan Society were the ones I cared about most
Yes, David Brown's original plan would indeed be fascinating :)
Perhaps we might get some idea from the HBS about the current state of play regarding the projected Nos.22-24 set ??? We do know that the RLPO/James Judd recording was aborted but there was talk of the Ulster Orchestra being used.
I understand from those who have heard the cd transfers of the Leicestershire Schools Symphony Orchestra recordings of Nos. 10 and 21 and of No.22 that their sound quality has been much improved...and they are available for download as well ;D
http://klassichaus.us/Havergal-Brian.php (http://klassichaus.us/Havergal-Brian.php)
Why not put your selection together, John, burn the symphonies onto disc and send a copy to Michael Dutton, Lewis Foreman and, most of all, Martyn Brabbins himself ;D
As we have heard before record companies get sackfuls of mail requesting new recordings but what they really need is to hear the works being requested. I am sure that Foreman has heard these symphonies but Brabbins may not have. Actually hearing them might peak his interest enough ???
Quote from: Dundonnell on Monday 09 January 2012, 13:12Why not put your selection together, John, burn the symphonies onto disc and send a copy to Michael Dutton, Lewis Foreman and, most of all, Martyn Brabbins himself ;D
Why not, indeed!
;D
I've just burnt a disc to see how it might work as a (hypothetical) programme ...
???
... and there is a
whole minute spare ...
;)
As you say, Brabbins will have to keep a strict eye on the clock! He must have ambitions to be the first conductor to do a Brian cycle, mustn't he?
Quote from: Albion on Monday 09 January 2012, 13:46
Quote from: Dundonnell on Monday 09 January 2012, 13:12Why not put your selection together, John, burn the symphonies onto disc and send a copy to Michael Dutton, Lewis Foreman and, most of all, Martyn Brabbins himself ;D
I've just burnt a disc to see how it might work as a (hypothetical) programme ...
???
I think it works as a programme, although better possibly not in strict chronological order - it contains some of Brian's most intense, directly emotionally-charged writing (No.5, slow movement of No.27) with plenty of brightness elsewhere.
Quicker than putting a disc in the post - I've emailed them a mediafire mini-folder (for their own private study and research).
;D
Well Done, that man ;D ;D
If Brabbins is not going to get the European opera house directorship he craves then he could do a lot worse than become the new Handley/Hickox ;D
Quote from: Albion on Sunday 08 January 2012, 15:52
If we are fortunate enough to get (at some point) another all-Brian disc from Dutton under the baton of Martyn Brabbins, I wonder which commercially-unrecorded works other members would like to see on it ...
???
... with a playing-time pushed to the limit, I'd especially welcome the following action-packed (and very varied) programme -
Symphony No.5, Wine of Summer (1937) - c.20 minutes
Symphony No.13 (1959) - c.18 minutes
Symphony No.24 (1965) - c.17 minutes
Symphony No.27 (1966) - c.22 minutes
All of these scores (especially No.27) have become firm favourites with me and it would be a treat to have modern digital recordings (especially if Roderick Williams was willing to take on the baritone solo in No.5).
I have no quarrel with this selection, although I'd take No. 19 instead of No. 24, because that's a part of the trilogy of 22-24. No. 19, as a three-movement symphony, would be a good
trait-d'union between the one-movement No. 13 and No. 27, which is in three movements, too.
I also like No. 14 a lot. And No. 28 certainly deserves a new recording, after the exciting but inaccurate Stokowski (tempi and dynamics).
As to the 22-24 and the Naxos recording - I know nothing (as Manuel would say, but I really don't, there has been no news at all about it in the HBS Newsletter).
I want to alert members to the following - after the historic recordings of symphonies 8 and 12 under Schwartz and Newstone, the HBS have now put up for download the first performance (1958) of Havergal Brian's Symphony No. 10 (1954), with the Philharmonia Orchestra under Stanley Pope. It's excellent and surpasses its rivals in some of the crucial passages.
http://www.havergalbrian.org/download.htm (http://www.havergalbrian.org/download.htm)
Thanks, Johan - I just picked this up on GMG as well.
The HBS site is a wonderful resource (the vintage recordings are a great supplement to the essential Dutton disc of 9 and 11), and thank goodness that Brian was so well served by the BBC during this period.
;D
From the latest HBS newsletter (don't know if it has been reported here already):
At the end of May our President Martyn Brabbins and the Royal Scottish National Orchestra will be recording the Violin Concerto (with Lorraine McAslan), Symphony no. 13 and English Suite no. 4, plus another short work if time allows.
Another great Dutton CD in the making, methinks.
I flagged it up in the New Duttons thread, Johan ;D
.....but the more publicity the better :)
Belated thanks for noting the HBS download of symphony 10 (have already downloaded the others and listened to it a few times- as with symphony 32 and some others, quite a different notion of tempo for funeral marches etc. than on the Marco Polo recordings, and often I think better ones in those earlier performances, especially with symphony 32, the better for deliberation and general lack of rush ) ...
Quote from: Dundonnell on Wednesday 09 May 2012, 23:57
I flagged it up in the New Duttons thread, Johan ;D
.....but the more publicity the better :)
Ah... :)
Quote from: eschiss1 on Thursday 10 May 2012, 06:13
Belated thanks for noting the HBS download of symphony 10 (have already downloaded the others and listened to it a few times- as with symphony 32 and some others, quite a different notion of tempo for funeral marches etc. than on the Marco Polo recordings, and often I think better ones in those earlier performances, especially with symphony 32, the better for deliberation and general lack of rush ) ...
I agree with you here. It is very clear that slowness often doesn't hurt Brian's music (though you must be careful not to overdo it!)
The financial climate for record companies is, at present, tough. It is also tough for their customers :(
Surely the sensible approach for all concerned is a measure of co-operation. Some of us have commented on the remarkable news that Chandos and Naxos are actually dividing the remaing unrecorded Weinberg repertoire between them to avoid overlap. I would like to see some possible co-operation between Dutton and Naxos with regard to the outstanding Brian symphonies.
I can understand the rationale for Dutton recording a new performance of the Violin Concerto since the Naxos version was problematic. The additions of the unrecorded Symphony No.13 and the English Suite No.4 fill gaps. It would be good to get a new version of Symphony No.2-the Naxos version with the Moscow Symphony Orchestra did not do the work justice-but that symphony is long and requires a very large orchestra.
Naxos had planned a recording of the ''trilogy' of Symphonies Nos. 22, 23 and 24 with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra under James Judd. That project fell through because of cuts to the Liverpool orchestra's budget. There was talk of seeking another orchestra and the Ulster Orchestra was mentioned in this context. How far, if anywhere, these plans have got I do not know.
In any case, Symphonies Nos. 22-24 would together have taken 40 minutes of a cd and there would need to be a coupling of some kind. Pace my good friend Malcolm MacDonald, that could have been the earlier Symphony No.14-a better work than he gives credit to. Symphony No.26 is one of the weaker Brian symphonies. So that could leave Nos. 19, 27, 28 and 29 of the unrecorded Brian. (I omit Symphony No.5 "The Wine of Summer" which needs a baritone soloist).
These four together add up to 72 minutes.
So....Naxos records Nos. 14, 22, 23 and 24 and Dutton records Nos. 19, 27, 28 and 29. Nos. 5 and 26 come later. Solved ;D
No....I know that is overly simplistic. For one thing, learning, rehearsing, performing and recording any one Brian symphony takes a lot of time and time=money.
My point about some co-operation between Naxos and Dutton however stands.
I am *never* anything but ecstatic to learn of a new Brian release (and how spoilt I've been lately), but I must say no. 13 was a surprising choice to me. An interesting piece, but I wouldn't put it in the top flight of the unrecorded Brian symphonies. I'll be glad to hear another version of the violin concerto: Brian's concertos seem to have a different, more lyrical quality, compared to his symphonies. Anyway, I'll be drinking yet another toast to Mike Dutton.
Re Colin's idea of co-operation between Naxos and Dutton - it would be sensible, but being sensible and running a business are two separate things, alas. And what about Hyperion? If 'The Gothic' has really sold well, perhaps they would want to do another Brian CD, too... It would be wonderful if companies pooled their resources for the greater good of a composer, but I don't see that happening.
I don't find the Naxos VC 'problematic', by the way. Bisengaliev can easily hold his own against Ralph Holmes (though I personally prefer the latter).
As for Symphony No. 13 - I have a soft spot for that piece. I can't wait for Brabbins' take on this rather maligned work (by MM).
I seem to recall complaints about the recording quality of the Bisengaliev ??? ???
It might be useful to bring in a breath of arctic realism here. Klaus Heymann was interviewed on Radio 4 yesterday and he said, quite categorically, that, nowadays, when it comes to recording orchestral music it is impossible (that was his word) for a company to recoup its expenses on non-core repertoire, and particularly so if the works are in copyright. Challenged then as to how Naxos manages to continue to record non-core repertoire Klaus explained that it is paid for by the continuing sales of all his earlier standard repertoire disks (e.g. the Haydn symphonies) of which there are, as we know, a vast number. Thank God that musicians are, by and large, a blessed race who WANT to play music and explore repertoire and are happy to do so for virtually nothing if they find the works engaging.
In the industry in which I used to be involved any such agreement between potential competitors to abstain from competing in a particular area, no matter how casual or obviously beneficial to the customer, was liable to have the heavy guns of the anti-trust regulators (in the UK the Competition Commission) open up on one at close range. Years ago I spent a lot of money defending one minor arrangement we had with a competitor, despite it clearly being in the public interest and enjoying the support of all the customer stakeholders. So I was very surprised to read Klaus Heymann's statement of co-operation with Chandos over the Weinberg symphonies, laudable though it clearly is. Maybe such supra-national arrangements are difficult for the anti-trust regulators to enforce but be in no doubt that even something as seemingly innocuous and trivial as co-operation between Naxos and Dutton over Brian would attract the attention of these pro-competition zealots if they knew of it. Perhaps both the companies and ourselves should be a bit more circumspect?
I am astonished by this information ::) Of course, I accept what you are saying from the obvious advantage of involvement and familiarity with the industry...no matter how much it pains me to read it.
I could write much more in reaction and response but respect for your advice precludes such further comment.
No, I wasn't discoraging discussion, just suggesting that we, and more importantly the labels, should be aware of a wider issue. By the way, for clarification, the industry in which I used to be involved wasn't the recording industry. Do please carry on...
I understand :) I took if from your observation that we "should be a bit more circumspect" that you were cautioning against further comment.
It is easy for our enthusiasms (and when I say "our" I refer to my own enthusiasms and that of those who would not object to be associated with the same love for Havergal Brian's music ;D) to run away with us. "Arctic realism" is, naturally, an attitude which is entirely appropriate, rational and sensible-particularly for those who make a living working for record companies.
It is such passionate enthusiasm however which sustains my own love of music and which I hope I shall never lose.
I am merely suggesting that it would do no harm if both Naxos and Dutton were aware, in the broadest of terms, of the thinking of their respective companies.
Quote from: Dundonnell on Thursday 10 May 2012, 18:19
it would do no harm if both Naxos and Dutton were aware, in the broadest of terms, of the thinking of their respective companies.
Ahh, you missed your vocation. You should have been a lawyer... ;)
Quote from: Dundonnell on Thursday 10 May 2012, 15:53
I seem to recall complaints about the recording quality of the Bisengaliev ??? ???
I think there's nothing wrong with the recording quality of the Bisengaliev. Now, if you were thinking of Symphony No. 2, then I'd agree...
I hope Brian will get the "supra-national" treatment! (Dream on, JZH...)
not all musicians; at least one famous soloist got quoted on the cover of Gramophone years back to the effect that he hated learning things for recording that he wouldn't get to play in concert. And I have recordings by him... (but since that particular cellist doesn't record for Dutton, sorry about that.)
JZH- Brian has been performed and premiered in the US (symphony 23), and I -thought- I'd heard that Spanish radio did a series of performances of his music, but I'm guessing this latter was a rumor...
(Extra-national performances and premieres of unsung composers might make a mildly amusing thread - Canadian performances of Holmboe and Weinberg a few years back, e.g. ... Anyway.)
Yes, No. 23 was premiered in the US. Nos 27 and 29 have also been performed lately, by the Orange County High School Symphony Orchestra, which will be in Birmingham on 25 June to perform the latter work...