Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Monday 06 September 2010, 20:46

Title: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 06 September 2010, 20:46
I would like to explore more of the unsung piano sonatas from the period 1860 to 1910 (approx.) Which ones would friends recommend? And in which performances?
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: TerraEpon on Monday 06 September 2010, 21:00
I've mentioned it before, but Niels Gade's Piano Sonata in e, which has a second movement that even a casual jazz listener might do a double take on. The whole thing is very tuneful, though.

And I wouldn't be me without giving a nod to Chaminade as well...
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: thalbergmad on Monday 06 September 2010, 22:38
I am not big sonata listener, but the Romanticism, lyricism and power of the Paderewski Sonata appeals to me greatly. I would doubt if there is a better recording than the Plowright, but if there is i would wish to hear it.

I won't mention the Dreyschock as that is too early ;D

Thal
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 04:30
I wish at least the third of Robert Fuchs' piano sonatas (D-flat major, op.109- written around 1919 though so this is cheating for which I apologize), which charmed not only me but also a good friend of mine, were still available on CD. Maybe again sometime.

Some really very good ones not already often discussed on this forum (I think), though, include

Istvan/Steven Heller's piano sonata no. 4 in B-flat minor op.143 (1878) (recorded on a CD with his op.47 studies, and available in score at IMSLP)
Arnold Bax's sonata no. 1 (1910) (recorded several times now)
Woldemar Bargiel's piano sonata op.34 in C (1867) (unrecorded as yet, though I can send you MIDIs if you don't mind the sound. Someone I expect will make a commercial recording eventually :)  Score available on IMSLP, again.
If you can find William Newman's book The Sonata Since Beethoven, have a gander if you haven't already :)
(oh- i suspect you already have and already have it. sorry, am very sleepy.)
Eric
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: JimL on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 05:01
Surely you can't forget Mili Balakirev's monumental sonata.  I forget what year it comes from but since he died in 1910, and I believe it was composed after 1860 I think it fits the topic.
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 05:29
Quote from: JimL on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 05:01
Surely you can't forget Mili Balakirev's monumental sonata.  I forget what year it comes from but since he died in 1910, and I believe it was composed after 1860 I think it fits the topic.
His two sonatas are in the same key, but I'm guessing you mean the 2nd sonata, from 1905 - I'm not sure though.
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: chill319 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 07:40
Jonathan Plowright's performance of the Paderewski on YouTube makes a strong case for the piece. Earl Wild's performance of the Balakirev has a ravishing fugue (one of the most successful fugues of the late Romantic era, IMHO), a melting middle movement and a well-played proto-Ravelian finale, lacking only that last ounce of virtuosity Wild himself would have delivered 10 years earlier. The Endres performance of Bax 1 is a stunner. Another remarkable sonata from Britain around 1910 is Scott's first, with a good performance by Leslie De'ath on Dutton.

For quality works in the Brahmsian vein, I've long loved the Goetz four-hand sonata, op. 17. Fuchs and Rheinberger hardly need mentioning to this group, of course. Nor do Draeseke and Raff. During the last decade of the century the four sonatas of MacDowell injected new vigor into the genre, I believe, but I have yet to hear a recording that does justice to their formal and expressive sophistication.

Love the d'Indy sonata but haven't heard a recording. Like the Dukas sonata but haven't heard a recording.
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Peter1953 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 07:57
I would like to make a strong case for Antoni Stolpe's Piano Sonata in D minor (1870).

I only have this sonata played by Mirosław Gąsieniec on the Pro Musica Camerata label (2008), so I cannot compare it with Stefan Łabanowski on Acte Préalable (2010). It's quite difficult to get that CD, and when I was in Poland last May, I couldn't find it in 2 CD shops in Warsaw and Krakow.
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Delicious Manager on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 11:21
I adore the late-Romantic, highly fragrenced Piano Sonata by Alban Berg (a relatively unsung work by a reasonably sung composer). Alfred Brendel plays it wonderfully: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlV-ksfS7F8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlV-ksfS7F8).
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 11:58
Thanks for all the suggestion, friends. Any more perchance?
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 12:40
QuoteIstvan/Steven Heller's piano sonata no. 4 in B-flat minor op.143 (1878) (recorded on a CD with his op.47 studies, and available in score at IMSLP)

I did not know this work had been recorded. Can you provide me with details of the recording, please, if it is still available and, if so, from where?
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 15:24
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 12:40
QuoteIstvan/Steven Heller's piano sonata no. 4 in B-flat minor op.143 (1878) (recorded on a CD with his op.47 studies, and available in score at IMSLP)

I did not know this work had been recorded. Can you provide me with details of the recording, please, if it is still available and, if so, from where?
I have no idea if it's still available- the existence of the recording, when I found it at a local booksale, threw me. (Its quality of production is none so good. Performance, yes, but to supplement - well:

the back cover etc. seems to think all 25 etudes of op.47 are on one track, and gives them no individual description. It wasn't until just yesterday, when I discovered that someone had, earlier this year, uploaded a score of op.47 to IMSLP, that I was able to remedy that in iTunes. Mind, different scores of opp.45-47 have different- sometimes very different- tempo indications or even keys at some points - so an etude that's played in B minor on my recording is in G-sharp minor in someone else's edition in a performance - a good one, too- on YouTube. BTW quite a bit of Heller has been uploaded in good performances on YouTube :) , legally by the performers themselves, not from CD-rips.)

Anyhow, to the details, I apologize, sorry...

OCLC description here http://www.worldcat.org/title/25-etudes-op-47-integrale-sonate-no-4-op-143/oclc/54483836 (http://www.worldcat.org/title/25-etudes-op-47-integrale-sonate-no-4-op-143/oclc/54483836)

(and a couple of other places)
Sergio Marengoni, piano, plays the 25 études (Études pour former au sentiment du rhythme et à l'expression) op.47 and the sonata no. 4 op.143 by Stephen Heller on Arcobaleno SBCD-6300 (1990s)

(ciao.de lists it as Koch International and gives the date as 1997. They don't offer a price, though, but link to Ebay. No luck at broinc.com.  Can't seem to find a place that's offering it in stock, but maybe somewhere is...)

Amazon.com (US) only is reselling a used copy for $100 (rather higher than what I got at the booksale.)


Eric

Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Martin Eastick on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 16:34
One of my favorite piano sonatas of all is Stenhammar's 1890 G minor (actually his 4th - those preceeding it are relatively unimportant juvenilia) - I was so impressed with this when I first obtained its premier recording on a Bluebell LP performed by Lucia Negro, that I just had to write to the producer to obtain a copy of the unpublished score! Since then, however, there have been several recordings and the score is now available in print for the first time (2008)! Unreservedly recommended. It would also be relevant here to mention the D major sonata of 1878 by Stenhammar's teacher Richard Andersson. He in turn studied with Clara Schumann and her husband's influence can be easily detected here but it nevertheless is a good solid attractive work. (Opus 3 CD19303 with Stefan Lindgren - piano  also includes sonatas by Johan Lindegren & Jakob Hagg).

I also strongly recommend Henryk Pachulski's 2nd sonata - in F major Op27 (1910). Having known both this and the earlier Op10 sonata No1 for some time, I was pleased to note that Acte Prealable were doing a Pachulski piano works series, but the first volume, which includes Op27, was IMHO rather disappointing, both from a performance and recording point of view.


The two Parry sonatas are quite interesting, but I would welcome a new recording on a more appropriate instrument than Parry's own piano as used by Tony Goldstone in his the only recording made so far.

There are two interesting piano sonatas by John Francis Barnett which as yet have not made it to disc - but perhaps this oversight may be resolved in the not too distant future! The first - in E minor , dates from 1885 and is reminiscent in places of Sterndale Bennett, and thus may be considered conservative, although overall it is an attractive 3-movement work with a rousing tarantella finale. The 2nd sonata - in A minor, was published in 1917 ( the year after Barnett's death) and is a rather substantial work in 4 movements - I would imagine it was probably written in the very early 1900's and there is the odd suggestion or two of Grieg in the 1st movement!
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 21:13
Thanks very much for the extensive info., Eric. If I can't track down a reasonably priced copy I'm wondering if I can get Valentina Seferinova interested in the Heller sonatas.
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 08 September 2010, 02:11
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 07 September 2010, 21:13
Thanks very much for the extensive info., Eric. If I can't track down a reasonably priced copy I'm wondering if I can get Valentina Seferinova interested in the Heller sonatas.
Hope so! (Hrm. I don't think I've heard her Noskowski recordings yet- other works by that composer, but not those.)
Eric
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: chill319 on Wednesday 08 September 2010, 06:13
Heller's Sonata 3 in C major falls within the first decade of Alan's date span and once achieved a certain popularity in Britain, in part because it is performable by amateurs, in part because it charms. Sonata 4 is much more difficult (1st movement, at least); anyone who enjoys it, though, will take pleasure in Heller's much earlier, red-blooded Capriccio symphonique, after which Sonata 4 sounds a bit like a short-winded pastiche. For my money the sonata by Heller that takes the prize is number 2, but it is too early to qualify.

Most references to Dale's sonata have him finishing it around his 20th year rather than his 10th.
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 08 September 2010, 07:46
QuoteMost references to Dale's sonata have him finishing it around his 20th year rather than his 10th.
True. ;) It dates from 1905. My 1894 would have made him an incredibly precocious nine year old.
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: chill319 on Thursday 09 September 2010, 02:06
Wasn't Korngold around 10 at the time his densely late romantic first sonata was published?
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 11 September 2010, 23:43
Quote from: chill319 on Thursday 09 September 2010, 02:06
Wasn't Korngold around 10 at the time his densely late romantic first sonata was published?
Well, when he wrote it, he was around 9 or 10, anyway. I don't think it was published until 1909, but he might still have been 11 at the time...
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: thundercloud on Wednesday 15 September 2010, 08:17
Let's se. As a pianist it's a nice challenge to look for unperformed works, so here are some exampels( i have played them all)
Szymanowskys 1:st sonata, with Martin Roscoe. It's freakin amazing!!
Agree about Balakirew, don't forget Lyapounov and Blumenfelds sonatas. And the 2 by Bortkiewicz

Both the D'Indy and Dukas are amazing, and for ******* sake, don't forget Pierce lanes amazing recording on hyperion of D'Alberts sonata.
Glazunovs 1.st sonata is a marvellous piece, Tatjana Fratova plays it best.
The Paderewski is pretty good.

MacDowells 4 sonatas are wonderful,I just love them.

Someone mentioned Gades sonata, i love that one.

We also have Norwegian Christian Sindings sonata ( most famous for his piece fruhlingsrauchen). and the Grieg of course.

Swedish Wilhelm Stenhammars 4:th in G-minor, with Niklas sivelov on NAXOS, fabolous!

Rachmaninovs 1.st, i't just amazing.

And then, the crown juwel.

Julius Reubkes stunning sonata, dedicated to his teacher Liszt. rarely performed, among the most difficult pieces ever written.

I think you'll have quite much to listen to now *lol*
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 15 September 2010, 09:44
If you like the Reubke, you should like the Draeseke Sonata Op.6...
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Peter1953 on Monday 20 September 2010, 22:26
Do I exaggerate if I think that Rheinberger's Sonata in E flat Major, op. 135 (1883) belongs to the most captivating, fascinating and beautiful Piano Sonatas of the 2nd half of the 19th century?

This evening I listened very concentrated, with my eyes closed, no disturbances around me, to this grandiose work again (Antonio Pompa-Baldi on Centaur) and I must say it's nothing less than a real masterpiece.
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: chill319 on Wednesday 22 September 2010, 02:10
I agree, Peter. One of the most fulfilling discoveries I've had as a pianist with unsung composers is the first time I played Rheinberger op 135. Heaven. Almost as delicious as discovering the Schubert G major sonata (Richter's favorite).
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 22 September 2010, 09:53
The Pompa-Baldi CD of Rheinberger on Centaur is an absolute must-buy. Superb music, superbly played.
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: JSK on Saturday 25 September 2010, 07:25
I know it's not as unsung as many of the works in this thread, but I believe the Balakirev B-flat minor sonata deserves more attention. I'm especially fond of the first movement, with its distinctly un-German fugal passages.
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Aramiarz on Monday 17 November 2014, 20:12
The first mexican piano sonate, was wrote around 1910, my friend the pianist Rodolfo Ritter said me that the piece is phantastic. We hope soon is available.
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 17 November 2014, 20:30
Which sonata is that, Aramiarz?
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: JimL on Monday 17 November 2014, 20:37
I seem to recall reading somewhere that Henri Vieuxtemps composed a Piano Sonata in E Major for his wife.  Yet I can see no reference to it in a listing of his works.  Did my memory deceive me, or is this a truly unsung work?
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Aramiarz on Monday 17 November 2014, 22:05
Dear Alan

  It's José Pomar sonate!!
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Aramiarz on Monday 17 November 2014, 22:12
Dear Jim
Interesting the Vieuxtemps piece!
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Aramiarz on Monday 17 November 2014, 22:14
I saw one fragment of piano sonate by Hjalmar Borgstrom
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 18 November 2014, 02:51
This makes me curious whether José Comellas' piano sonata's been performed in "modern days". (Cuban-American composer, late 19th-century. See Sonate brillante in G minor, Op.21 @ IMSLP (http://imslp.org/wiki/Sonate_brillante,_Op.21_(Comellas,_Jos%C3%A9)).)
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Aramiarz on Tuesday 18 November 2014, 12:17
The Pomar's sonate is from 1913, but in romantic style. Around 2000's the mexican label released one cd with Pomar's piano works. The pianist isn't enough good, but it's the alone recording
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: MHBallan on Thursday 20 November 2014, 10:46
I saw mentioned earlier on this thread the two piano sonatas by Pachulski - not sure if members are aware but there is a 3rd piano sonata [Op 32] that the composer wrote just prior to his death.  Unfortunately it was never published, although I was able to recently track down a copy of the manuscript and it will be recorded before Christmas by Acte Prealable.  So one to watch out for in the new year.

Malcolm
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Aramiarz on Thursday 20 November 2014, 14:59
Dear Malcolm
  I have one cd by Pachulski in Acte. The new cd that you said will have the 3rd sonate? What other pieces? Interesting that you get the score!! The sonates 1&2 too will be performance and recording?
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Aramiarz on Thursday 20 November 2014, 15:09
Marmontel too wrote piano sonates. I think so that this important teacher and composer is very forgotten. He had the famous conflict with Alkan for get the place as teacher in Paris Conservatory. Some much composers dedicated works to him. For example the Dumka op 59 by Tchaicovski
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 22 November 2014, 13:06
Intriguing about the Pachulski 3rd piano sonata. Thank you.
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: MHBallan on Tuesday 25 November 2014, 15:49
eschiss 1 & Aramiarz

The Pachulski 3rd sonata is currently being typeset as it proved rather difficult to learn the score from the manuscript.  Happy to share with members once that is finished and the commercial recording is completed.

Yes, it will be done by Acte Prealable [but different pianist to the 1st CD] -   likely works to be covered on the 2nd disc will be some of the following: 2 pieces op. 9; 3 pieces op. 3; 2 pieces op. 11; Phantastische Marchen op. 12; Feuille d'album op. 16; Octaven-Etude; 2 Mazourkas op. 18,
plus some of the orchestral arrangements either for piano solo or piano / 4 hands i.e. Polonaise op. 5; Suite op. 13 and Meditation Op. 25.  The 3rd sonata will appear on a separate CD at some stage.

The problem has been with some of these works is actually locating the scores and then getting a copy for performance [surprising the libraries that say no despite the work being out of copyright]!!  Beyond the 3rd sonata Op 32, which I was able to track down, there are still two works missing - Op 30 Scherzo for piano and Op 31 Three Pieces for piano [prelude, etude & polonaise no. 2]......I do have a copy of the etude but the other two pieces from Op 31 are proving to be extremely difficult to locate]. 

Malcolm

Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 26 November 2014, 02:55
Mr. Ballan - depending on the country, the composer, and the relevant law a work that exists only in manuscript might not yet -be- out of copyright in that country, or so I gather, even at 100 years of age in some cases... (e.g. some late CV Stanford chamber works...) (Not an expert here, though.)
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Aramiarz on Friday 28 November 2014, 17:08
The Gernsheim piano sonate op 1. For if anyone has interest
http://recordsinternational.com/cd.php?cd=10Q093 (http://recordsinternational.com/cd.php?cd=10Q093)
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 28 November 2014, 21:20
Ah, wasn't aware someone had recorded Gernsheim's one published sonata. Hopefully his 2-or-so unpublished piano sonatas (listed in the catalog of the Gernsheim Archive in Israel) are in performable or recoverable shape and can be recorded too :)
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Aramiarz on Saturday 29 November 2014, 14:41
Dear Erick, have you the link for  Gernsheim Archive in Israel?
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Aramiarz on Saturday 29 November 2014, 14:46
Other romantic piano sonate wrote Richard Franck!
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Saturday 29 November 2014, 15:28
QuoteAh, wasn't aware someone had recorded Gernsheim's one published sonata.

It's a computer-generated recording, Eric.
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 29 November 2014, 15:37
Well, as often, it's something, for now...
Title: Re: Unsung Piano Sonatas 1860-1910
Post by: Aramiarz on Saturday 29 November 2014, 16:13
The software option it's interesting while no one pianist has interest in these wonderful scores.
There are a lot of pieces forgotten! :'( :'(
When time we have to wait? 10, 15, 20 years or more for one pianist rescue these works?