I just found a reference, stating that there has been made a studio recording of this symphony (not with the London PO):
https://www.realsound.it/recording-schedule/ (https://www.realsound.it/recording-schedule/)
Quote
2018, June 26th - 30th: CD studio recording of "Eine Herbstsymphonie" by Joseph Marx with Johannes Wildner and Philharmonisches Orchester Graz for CPO
Unfortunately - as is usual with cpo - there may be a delay of several years (up to 10-12!) between recording and actual release,
but let's hope that we will get this CD much sooner.
Fascinating - thanks. Of course, Graz was where the first modern performance took place:
http://www.joseph-marx.org/en/herbstsymphonie-graz-oct2005.html (http://www.joseph-marx.org/en/herbstsymphonie-graz-oct2005.html)
Can't be a coincidence, surely...
There are now two recent posts showcasing the full performing version in the 2005 rendition by Michel Swierczewski viewed in tandem with the orchestral score as recorded in a ORF radio broadcast from Graz:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LriIm5Gd6osi
...to be compared alongside the abridged version conducted by Leon Botstein some years later though it's not quite clear from the original score as displayed where the cuts were made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLPK8U5dfU8
Happy listening whilst perusing thru the score... ;) ;D
Best wishes to one and all, JP
Thanks, JP. I have moved your post here because of the reference to the Graz recording from 2005. I'm sure some of the players on the cpo recording will have taken part in that performance.
I'm not so keen on the conductor Johannes Wildner but we shall see...
Oh, I have some fine recordings conducted by Wildner. Consider this listing:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_pg_2?rh=n%3A229816%2Cn%3A697386%2Ck%3Ajohannes+wildner&page=2&keywords=johannes+wildner&ie=UTF8&qid=1536168409 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_pg_2?rh=n%3A229816%2Cn%3A697386%2Ck%3Ajohannes+wildner&page=2&keywords=johannes+wildner&ie=UTF8&qid=1536168409)
Yes, Alan, and Wildner's 3CD box with Schumann's complete works for piano and orchestra (Pianist: Lev Vinokour) is quite excellent too. Incidentally, this box also contains Henselt's Piano Concerto (the world premiere of the version corrected by Schumann!).
But I also like very much the "old" ASV CD with Marx's "Natur-Trilogie," conducted by Steven Sloane.
So let's still wait for a reference recording of "Herbst-Symphonie"...
It's always worth consulting Adriano about his conductor colleagues. He either knows them or has seen/heard them!
I know he's good with other composers but I've been (once again :) ) listening lately to my collection of the complete Johann Strauss II edition - and I detest most of the (CD- vol's) works that Wildner has conducted - lets face it these are waltzes not deep ponderous symphonic poems and instead of employing hopping faster tempos, in most cases he's opted for a very broad tempo sometimes stretching these pretty 8 - 9 minute pieces to 11 and above.
Well, I have a really good Schubert 9 under Wildner and then there are those super Dutton issues. I'm not worried...
He's also the conductor on some really intriguing new cpo issues I hope to hear (I would have said hope to hear over NML but... - still, I might still buy them) that are no longer part of our remit. (Music by J David, by Erich Zeisl, a recently mentioned disc of Braunfels, concertos by Frédéric d'Erlanger- more in our remit iirc - and one disc of his I've listed to (part of) and do mean to get sooner than later, Bruckner 9 with a reconstruction of the finale, on Naxos...)
Now I am of eschiss1's opinion :-) The Strauss Naxos discs with Wildner are rather boring, and without esprit. Put berhaps those Walzes should be played without esprit, in order to reflect the stiffness of its époque? I suppose this has also to do with the orchestras... Some of those Strauss Edition discs were also conducted by Oliver Dohnány (with Polish Orchestras, better ones than the Kosize one) and Alfred Walter... and are more sympathetic. Bruckner's Ninth under Wildner is considered so far, even by expert Brucknerians, the best version with the reconstructed finale; but this finale has, in the meantime, been revised once again. I also like Wildner's Braunfels-Dutton. I met Wildner in Vienna once in the 1990s - and he was very nice to me.
QuoteI met Wildner in Vienna once in the 1990s - and he was very nice to me.
Told you!
Spotify and iTunes offer a stream of Marx's Herbstsinfonie by Botstein with his ASO. Vladimir Jurowski and his LPO recorded the symphony in november 2017 for their house label - hope it'll be released soon - and rumours go cpo recorded this work already years ago with the Vienna SO under Cornelius Meister.....
Swierczewski's expansive Graz performance can be heard on YouTube here:performance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2vmv5v-Izs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2vmv5v-Izs)
...and Botstein's much fleeter performance here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU3aM7dcrPo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU3aM7dcrPo)
I much prefer Swierczewski: Botstein sounds rather apologetic by comparison. I mean, if you're going to perform this piece, you might as well give it everything you've got. Fully welly!
As for the Herbst Symphony:
1. Unfortunately, the LPO recording will not be released, as Jurowsky was not satisfied with the quality of the performance.
2. cpo recorded the Herbstsinfonie in June 2018 in Graz/Austria with Wildner conducting (this is not a rumor - I was a little bit involved in this). The recording is to be released in spring 2019, but we all know: cpo does not hurry up things.
3. JoAnn Falletta wanted to do a recording for Naxos in Berlin last year, but due to the quality of the material (handwritten parts!) the orchestra refused. In the meantime, Universal Edition decided to edit the material newly - let us hope that it is true and that JoAnn adheres to her plans! Anyway, a printed version of the orchestral material should really boost interest and readiness for the piece!
4. Forget about the rumors with Cornelius Meister - they are untrue. We tried to convince him of the piece for years but he remained stubborn here as everywhere (and we are very happy to have got rid of him recently!).
1) If it's Vladimir Jurowski, I will not miss this recording at all. I was so disappointed by his Zürich "Gezeichneten"! An intelligent reviewer even wrote that this kind of approach could even be interpreted as a not all too good omen for his 1921 Munich Opera GMD engagement. And this not only because of the many clumsy (really unprofessional) cuts he agreed to be done in the score.
2) The Wildner will be surely an excellent recording. Alas, cpo needs sometimes 4 years to have its CDs issued!
3) After my disappointment at Mrs Falletta's "Ilya Muromets", I am not keen on such a recording either.
4) Good!
Great news about Wildner's recording. He's a fine conductor.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Sunday 18 November 2018, 14:33
Great news about Wildner's recording. He's a fine conductor.
Indeed. And one who has proven his merit in other Marx recordings, most notably
Eine Frühlingsmusik and
Feste im Herbst, both works I vastly prefer over the
Herbstsinfonie, to be honest.
Marx' Herbstsymphonie will be released next week:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/joseph-marx-eine-herbstsymphonie/hnum/8848534 (https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/joseph-marx-eine-herbstsymphonie/hnum/8848534)
Woweeeeeeeeeee! Thanks for the news. Already on order - or will be in a tick...
Stupendous news! Let's hope it's the uncut version.
Oh, you were faster than me! @SymponicAddict: To my knowledge, it is indeed the uncut version.
Thanks for the conffirmation @der79sebas, at last we will be able to enjoy this robust piece in all its glory!
Now listed in this month's new releases @ JPC/cpo, too. Neat.
My copy arrived this morning: first impressions - excellent sound, conductor keeps things moving (TT 67:00), probably to the music's advantage. Swierczewski back in 2005 took 73:38...
I'd say that Wildner has got the work about right, avoiding excessive languor while allowing sufficient room for the music to breathe. If you see what I mean...
This new recording by Johannes Wildner is excellent.
What gorgeous music! I won't get rid of Swierczewski's version, but definitely of Botstein's.
But at the same time attentive music lovers should realize/admit that Marx's introductory music of Herbstsymphonie (written in 1921) would have not been possible without Schreker's "Prelude to a Drama" (written in 1914), or its reduced form, the Prelude to "Die Gezeichneten" (written in 1915). Let's call this a "homage" or a "reminiscence" to be mild :-).
I am happy that the author of the (excellent) CD liner notes also mentions this influence. Many years ago, I once dared to reveal this to two German musicians who disliked Schreker but are Marx fans; they felt offended and walked away from our conversation.
As far as Marx's musical style is concerned, there is also an influence of Respighi, particularly in his "Castelli Romani".
Do you think that Ravel's Daphnis et Chloé (first performed 1912) is an influence too, Adriano?
Of course, Alan, but let's not destroy the piece :-)
Respighi's music too has a lot of Debussy, Ravel and other French composers (including Franck and Saint-Saens). Not to speak about his youthful Richard Strauss and Russian inspirations...
I was thinking of the opening of Herbstsymphonie - very Daphnis-like, surely?
The opening is 1:1 the opening of Schreker's "Die Gezeichneten" (Prelude to a drama, respectively). Later in the symphony, also Franz Schmidt (think e.g. of the notorious "Notre Dame"-Intermezzo) is there. In fact, when I heard the piece for the first time, I thought "Pfitzner goes Scriabin" - more than a decade later I have arrived at "Schmidt goes Schreker"!
Let's say 0,8:1 :)
I'll settle for that!
... On the other hand I suspect Respighi to have been inspired by Marx in writing the first movement of his "Pini di Roma" (1924) - Just listen to the opening of the 4th movement of "Eine Herbstsymphonie"! He may not have heard the Vienna 1922 premiere, but he could most probably hire or peruse its score, since Respighi had also a contract with Universal Edition ("La campana sommersa", "Sinfonia drammatica", "La Primavera" and "Concerto gregoriano" were published by Universal).
And here are some reviews of Jurowski's 2017 interpretation (a good idea to couple "Herbstsymphonie" with Respighi's "Poema autunnale"):
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/nov/30/lpo-jurowski-review-marx-autumn-symphony-london-philharmonic
https://bachtrack.com/de_DE/review-marx-autumn-jurowski-fischer-london-philharmonic-november-2017
A final personal note: I am sure I won't re-listen this Symphony as often again as Glière's "Ilya Murometz" :-)
QuoteI am sure I won't re-listen this Symphony as often again as Glière's "Ilya Murometz"
Richtig! Zuviel Sachertorte!
What's Paul gone and done now?
Wrong Sacher:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Sacher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Sacher)
Good gag, though.
:)
If Schreker had written a symphony, it might have sounded something like this.
Franz Schmidt's 3rd symphony of 1928 occupies the same sound world as the 3rd movement of the Herbstsymphonie.
Botstein didn't do much for me, but Wildner's version sounds just ideal. The delightful orientalism of the last movement comes out very well indeed.
Schreker's op. 1 is, in fact, his early Symphony attempt. It was available on Koch Schwann in 1999. Of course, his "Kammersymphonie für 23 Soloinstrumente" is also a Symphony - and a masterwork.
New recording now reviewed on Musicweb (http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2019/Apr/Marx_Herbst_5552622.htm).
I'm amused (in a good, not annoyed way) that Mr. Barnett brings in Cuclin - as in "The music might even remind you of Scriabin or early Miaskovsky or Cuclin, or of Bax in his Spring Fire or Nympholept." - be told, I shouldn't mind if the comparable Cuclin works become well-enough known that that makes sense.
I wonder which works by Cuclin he means?
His First Symphony perhaps? It's a rather turgid thing too...
There's a performance on YouTube, but turgid is certainly the word...
And dull. Marx is a much superior composer to Cuclin, from what little of the Romanian composer's music I have heard and he was certainly a much finer orchestrator, IMHO. Incidentally, I read somewhere that Cuclin's 12th symphony for large orchestra, chorus and soloists, lasts 6 hours!!!
Ooooooooooooooooh boy.
I was thinking the works I'm more familiar with - symphonies 9 (cut and condensed) and 11 - and I'm aware that they don't at all take many people here the same way they sometimes do me (and apparently Mr. Barnett) . As to symphony 12, no way of knowing how long it takes. One only knows how long Sorabji's 2nd (once 3rd) symphony (within a range, even, to choose another famous/infamous and long* symphony) takes because someone finally performed it (synthetically, not live); no one's yet performed Cuclin 12 in any form to my knowledge.
*I quite like it but for the purposes of this forum it's infamous, fine. I like it just fine... Anyhow, apologies for bringing that all up.
...and so back to Marx, J.
... and I am coming back with this (for those who still don't know):
http://www.joseph-marx.org/en/herbstsymphonie.html