Recently Vol. 4 of Ries' PCs has been released by Naxos. See Piano Concertos (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Ferdinand-Ries-Klavierkonzert-op-115/hnum/2461130)
Also Vol. 3 of Ries' Piano Sonatas by Susan Kagan is available on Naxos since some time, see Piano Sonatas (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Ferdinand-Ries-Klaviersonaten-Sonatinen-Vol-3/hnum/9617115)
I'm sincerely hoping these releases might form some kind of revival of Ries's music. He seems like the natural link between Beethoven and Chopin to my ears. Here's hoping...
Quote from: Delicious Manager on Tuesday 05 October 2010, 08:50
I'm sincerely hoping these releases might form some kind of revival of Ries's music. He seems like the natural link between Beethoven and Chopin to my ears. Here's hoping...
Agreed, have been enjoying a good deal of his music lately and hearing a lot more of it than I could have guessed when I first started seeing and skimming his scores. (Saw the Garland Publishing edition of his syms. 1, 2, and 7 - misnumbered- a couple of decades ago; thanks to cpo and Howard Griffiths etc. have now heard them and most of the others, most recently, no. 7 in A minor on TV (!).
The Telefunken LP of the A major/minor cello sonata (op.21?) gave it a good deal of conviction and enjoyability- I kept being put in mind of Beethoven op.69 though in only the best ways; I hope more recent recordings (in general where appropriate but of that work in particular, I mean) have some of that conviction, for it did sound like a great piece under those performers.
Eric
Ries'symphonies are very obviously indebted to Beethoven - but are no less enjoyable for that. The piano concertos are more varied, I find: there is the same influence, but, as with Hummel, there is definitely the feeling of Chopin lurking somewhere in the near future. Ries is certainly a major unsung and cpo and Naxos are doing him proud at the moment.
As a postscript, I would say that the Concerto Pastoral on the latest Naxos CD is one Ries' grandest and most consistent inspirations; there is, for example, some wonderfully evocative - and also exciting - writing for horns and the piano part is by turns scintillating and gently reflective. This could easily enter the regular repertoire...
I find his solo/tutti writing to be miles behind Beethoven, and his themes far less memorable than Hummel, or even Herz. But I'll probably pick this one up, too.
Well, considering he was Beethoven's assistant and student, is it REALLY that surprising?
All of Ries' PCs are choc full of memorable material - I'm listening to the PC in C sharp minor, Op.55 (Naxos again) from 1812 and, while it isn't Beethoven, its themes stay obstinately in the memory. And perhaps it's not so far behind Beethoven after all....
Ries had the great good fortune -- or perhaps misfortune -- to be close to Beethoven during precisely those years when Beethoven found his own inimitable voice, the years between the first symphony and the third. That Ries "got" Beethoven's achievement from the get-go was irksome to the older composer, himself still up and coming, and who, as we all know, complained about Ries's borrowing from the still developing stylebook.
There can be no doubt that Beethoven's noble and tuneful idealism left a deep imprint on Ries's creations. Yet I find it hard to justify the extent to which this complaint has weighed on Reis over the past two centuries. (Was there ever a composer who did not begin with [from the Renaissance perspective] a healthy imitatio?) As Alan says, Ries at his best writes at not so great a distance from Beethoven.
A side word about Susan Kagan: I had the luck to work with her on an edition of Archduke Rudolph, which she also recorded for Koch, accompanying the estimable Josef Suk. Rudolph's work is hardly pastiche, but like Ries, Czerny, and others, clearly born in the shadow of Beethoven's achievement. Ms. Kagan has a particular affinity for the very gifted composers who have been measured almost exclusively against their Olympian mentor, and I would recommend her Ries sonatas to all.
Quote from: chill319 on Thursday 07 October 2010, 00:03
Ries had the great good fortune -- or perhaps misfortune -- to be close to Beethoven during precisely those years when Beethoven found his own inimitable voice, the years between the first symphony and the third. That Ries "got" Beethoven's achievement from the get-go was irksome to the older composer, himself still up and coming, and who, as we all know, complained about Ries's borrowing from the still developing stylebook.
There can be no doubt that Beethoven's noble and tuneful idealism left a deep imprint on Ries's creations. Yet I find it hard to justify the extent to which this complaint has weighed on Reis over the past two centuries. (Was there ever a composer who did not begin with [from the Renaissance perspective] a healthy imitatio?) As Alan says, Ries at his best writes at not so great a distance from Beethoven.
A side word about Susan Kagan: I had the luck to work with her on an edition of Archduke Rudolph, which she also recorded for Koch, accompanying the estimable Josef Suk. Rudolph's work is hardly pastiche, but like Ries, Czerny, and others, clearly born in the shadow of Beethoven's achievement. Ms. Kagan has a particular affinity for the very gifted composers who have been measured almost exclusively against their Olympian mentor, and I would recommend her Ries sonatas to all.
There's a preface by Kagan to an English translation to the Franz Wegeler/Ferdinand Ries "Beethoven remembered : the biographical notes of Franz Wegeler and Ferdinand Ries" (the translation pub. by Great Ocean Publishers in 1987. For such an important Beethoven resource, it has very little circulation- as Kagan writes in her preface, if one didn't know German one had to get a translation of this excellent pair of personal reminiscences by two close friends of the composers commissioned. The Ries section especially is filled with some interesting historical detail and is probably the origin of such stories- whether ultimately accurate or not, they've entered Beethoven myth since then- as that of Ries' ears being boxed when he pointed out the early horn entry in the
Eroica. But less famous too, like the time he asked Ries to stop presses on the
Hammerklavier, because he wanted to insert two bars - the two bars right at the opening of the slow movement, not finalized or inserted until the work was actually at the publisher's. )
Eric
BTW, the Violin Concerto and Double Horn Concerto on cpo (http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product//7773532.htm) are also delightful works. I think even Jim will like it ;)
I can't get enough of the Ries variations on Rules Britannia
Vol. 4 of the Piano Sonatas played by Susan Kagan is announced, please view here (http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.572299). I think a must-buy, because the other three volumes are most delightful.
Indeed! I received my copy last week. Truly delightful, well played (and recorded) music. None of those charming sonatinas this time, but two quite extended sonatas - Op 9/1 in D major, and right at the end of Ries' life Op 141 in A flat major. Hats off to Naxos for this wonderful series, eh?
Peter
Got my copy of Vol. 4 yesterday, and what a delight. Even if there are no traits in these pieces that inspire you to cries of "unmistakably Ries, I'd know his stuff anywhere," the evidence of an cultured and often inspired musical mind is everywhere. Really one of the most interesting minor Romantics I can think of. Hope there's more on the way.
David
Hrm. I forget if the concerto opus 55 in C-sharp minor has appeared yet in the Naxos concerto series - I -assume- it will be, even though it has received several recordings on other labels (one of Ries' few works to receive such treatment, though not his only one.) This leads me to guess in turn that the series is not yet done.
The cpo series of Ries' string quartets was not intended to be complete, was it? (I would have hoped it would be, but I recall someone saying here or elsewhere that it was not - unfortunately. I hope there will be more than 2 volumes. I have only heard a movement or two, broadcast on Belgian radio, so far, if I remember correctly. Good stuff though- not a fact that surprises :) )
Eric
Quote from: eschiss1 on Wednesday 15 December 2010, 06:12
Hrm. I forget if the concerto opus 55 in C-sharp minor has appeared yet in the Naxos concerto series - I -assume- it will be, even though it has received several recordings on other labels (one of Ries' few works to receive such treatment, though not his only one.) This leads me to guess in turn that the series is not yet done.
The cpo series of Ries' string quartets was not intended to be complete, was it? (I would have hoped it would be, but I recall someone saying here or elsewhere that it was not - unfortunately. I hope there will be more than 2 volumes. I have only heard a movement or two, broadcast on Belgian radio, so far, if I remember correctly. Good stuff though- not a fact that surprises :) )
Eric
Yes. The 3rd Concerto, Op. 55 has been done. I think it was the 2nd or 3rd in the series.
ah, thanks- sorry about that. Concerto no.3 in Naxos 8.557844, volume 2. To judge from the Naxos website (http://www.naxos.com/person/Ferdinand_Ries/24316.htm (http://www.naxos.com/person/Ferdinand_Ries/24316.htm)) , concertos 3-8 have all been recorded in the Naxos series. I remember that the concertos are numbered in publication order - trying to remember if concertos 1 and 2 still exist, and if there are more than 8... the Naxos series is also supposed to include other works for piano and orchestra besides concertos, so there's the question whether all of those have been covered as yet (Hill's book?)...
ok, no, according to the notes for 8.557844 there definitely is a concerto no.2 (in E-flat, published 1812)... not yet recorded by Naxos, I think. I'm guessing but do not know that concerto no.1 may survive. Naxos may elect to record the violin concerto too for all I know even though cpo has already done so - who knows... they mention it enough in those notes.
Hi All,
We've recently bought one of the Naxos CDs of the piano concertos (volume 4 with the concerto pastorale) and think they are lovely works - looking forward now to getting the whole set!
The one of Ries' sonatas I hope that Naxos do not pass by is the superb Op160 sonata for piano duet, which in my mind is amongst his best work, and also being one of his later contributions, falls well within that interesting period of developing romanticism. Apart from that it is an excellent example of quality 4-hand writing and most entertaining, having had the good fortune to have been involved in several perfomances some years ago now!
Some may remember this work from a BBC Radio3 broadcast from 1984 (Ries bicentenary year) but to date has never had a commercial recording. To round off a perfect prospective CD one would hope for the earlier (and slighter) Op47 4-hand sonata and perhaps one or two of the 4- hand polonaises! I have already suggested this as a possibility to Naxos and hope that the idea may be taken up, but I am sure that similar requests from other interested parties would not go amiss!
Vol. 5 looks mouthwatering.., see here (http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Ferdinand-Ries-1784-1838-Klaviersonaten-Sonatinen-Vol-5/hnum/1151944)
Does the Ries Piano Concerto Exist? I mean the listing of concertos on the net is as follows
Concerto for 2 Horns in E flat major WoO 19 (1811)
Concerto No. 1 for Violin and Orchestra in E minor op. 24 (1810)
Concerto No. 2 for Piano and Orchestra in E flat major op. 42 (1808)
Concerto No. 3 for Piano and Orchestra in C sharp minor, op. 55 (1812, pub. 1826)
Concerto No. 4 for Piano and Orchestra in C minor, op. 115 (1809, pub. 1823)
Concerto No. 5 for Piano and Orchestra in D major, op. 120 'Concerto Pastoral' (c.1816, pub. 1823)
Concerto No. 6 for Piano and Orchestra in C major, op. 123 (1806, pub. 1824)
Concerto No. 7 for Piano and Orchestra in A minor, op. 132 'Abschieds-Concert von England' (1823)
Concerto No. 8 for Piano and Orchestra in A flat major, op. 151 'Gruss an den Rhein' (1826)
Concerto No. 9 for Piano and Orchestra in G minor , op. 177 (1832/33)
So is the Concerto No. 2 for Piano and Orchestra in E flat major op. 42 (1808) in fact Piano concerto No. 2 [assuming the numbering follows the order of the Concertos he composed] or is it the elusive Piano concerto No. 1?
Also since the list clearly shows a Piano Concerto No. 9 why do all articles mention that he composed ".. eight piano concertos.."
Quote from: FBerwald on Thursday 14 June 2012, 08:02since the list clearly shows a Piano Concerto No. 9 why do all articles mention that he composed ".. eight piano concertos.."
It seems a peculiar system, but the concertos were apparently numbered irrespective of the solo instrument employed and thus there isn't, and never was, a 'Piano Concerto No.1'. The summary in Grove -
Orchestral
8 syms.: op.23, op.80, op.90, op.110, op.112, op.146, op.181, woo30 (1822)
5 ovs.: op.94 'Don Carlos'; op.162 'Die Braut von Messina'; op.172, with triumphal march; woo24 'bardique' (1815); woo61 'L'apparition' (1836)
Vn Conc. (Conc. no.1), op.24; 8 pf concs. (numbered 2–9), op.42, op.55, op.115, op.120, op.123, op.132 'Farewell to London', op.151 'Salut au Rhin', op.177; Concertino, pf, orch, woo88; 3 variation sets, pf, orch: op.52, on Swedish national airs, op.116, on 'Rule, Britannia', op.170 'brillantes'; 2 rondos, pf, orch, op.144 'brillant', woo54 (1835); Polonaise, pf, orch, op.174; Conc., 2 hn, orch, woo19 (1811)
???
According to Naxos, the numbering of the piano concertos very definitely follows publication order, not composition order.
There is a incomplete (only up to op.169 maybe or so - "Seiten 108-147 sind leer" - I'll check my copy) partially composer-maintained Ries worklist in manuscript with incipits and work dates and places of composition that has been scanned in by the State Library (Stabikat) of Berlin (and is at IMSLP.) At IMSLP it can be downloaded here (http://imslp.org/wiki/Catalogue_Thematique_(Ries,_Ferdinand)) - it may be of some interest - not sure whether or not it clarifies. Hill's book on Ries' works probably does. I don't think any of his unpublished works are there though (hrm, I really need to give it a -good- read-through- sigh :( ...) , but of those that are, yes, op.42 written in Petersburg in 1811 is the first piano concerto mentioned, written (unless Bonn means place published- I'm actually not positive... !! - but I think composed is meant...) a year after the violin concerto... (by then he'd already written 30 piano sonatas...)
Actually, I notice that the opus numbers in this worklist are successive but the dates go to and fro (the opus 40s-ish works associated mostly with dates between 1809 and 1812- except for one 1824... hrm... not sure what the dates refer to, in the strict and usable sense- ah well. And conversely, op.120 is associated with "London 1814" but the concerto op.123 with "Bonn 1806"...) (The 7th concerto unsurprisingly has London 1823, though- "Farewell to England" does tend to suggest the London part.)
Any news of the last volume in Naxos' Ries PC series?
My understanding is that the piano concertos are usually numbered 2-9, albeit the Richault Edition of the Op.42 clearly marks it as the 1st.
Thal
If that's the case then Naxos has got the numbering all wrong!
Hrm. Hill, Ries, and Naxos all agree, far as I know... Richault is the odd one out-- therefore Hill, Ries and Naxos are all wrong?
Follow me through your reasoning :)
Take for ex. Concerto No. 7 for Piano and Orchestra in A minor, op. 132 'Abschieds-Concert von England' . If we assume the correct numbering system [by instrument] then this would actually be Piano Concerto No. 6. Naxos Lists it as " Piano Concerto No. 7 in A major, Op. 132, "Farewell to London" "! Follow my reasoning Count Jim Moriarty....
to misquote any number of people, you're looking for logic where logic is not going to be (and exactly missing my point). You're right- Naxos calls it No.7. You forgot that Ries, in his Catalogue Thematique which I already mentioned, -also- calls it No.7 as I recall (... I'll double check. It's definitely true that he calls op.42 no.2). You can download the Catalog from SBB or from IMSLP.
I should think the composer's opinion counts for something here.
There are cases (Dvorak symphonies) where consensus has agreed that it does not go as publishers or composer would say, but consensus, such as it is, with Ries, seems to be to stick with the Hill (compiler of the Ries incipit/werkverzeichis etc.)/Ries/Naxos numbering, not other numberings (of which there are several more natural ones.)
BTW my name is Eric, not Jim, though I'm flattered to be confused with him.
I agree. In any case what's in a number? Its beautiful music anyways.
I know that you ARE NOT Jim. Moriarty [aka Spoke Milligner ... the well known typing error!] incase you didn't know, was a Goon! check him out if Surrealistic Comedy is your cup of Indian TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeee!
Agreed re the music of Ries I know so far :)
Oh, the Goon Show. I know of it, but haven't yet seen it. Anyhow. Right as Ries...
Must go see if I can now go hear one of the concertos (well, aside from in my head- I've seen several in reduced score or rather just the piano part only with indications in some cases...- and I have heard the Vox LP of the C-sharp minor op.55, some time back!) so that I can make penance for dragging the conversation offtopic. Apologies...
(Since Concertzender broadcast one of the Naxos discs last year, I'll see if I can listen to it :) )
Badley's notes to volume 4 of the Naxos series specify that the date of the opus 120 concerto pastorale is unknown. The Ries "Catalogue Thematique" states definitely that he composed it in London in 1814 - which raises some questions:
did Ries himself, and alone, put together the Catalogue as we have it;
when did he put it together (how reliable was his memory, was it at one point in time, etc.);
...
anyway- hrm.
I mailed Badley @ Artaria (probably not the right place exactly) to ask his opinion (probably could have been clearer about it, too) but will see...
Listening to it right now, though. Nice piece indeed, thanks for the prod :)
Badley responded to me just this morning with a polite and convincing answer, to the effect that the Catalogue Thematique was drawn up decades after these works were written (1829-1831 or so? I don't know) and his memory for those exact dates and places was probably uncertain.
His email also noted this, fwiw, maybe germane to this thread...
"Volume 5 will be out soon (the lucky last) and I think it will be a big hit."
Thanks for this news, Eric. I look forward to Vol. 5 very much.