Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: Justin on Wednesday 31 July 2019, 03:32

Title: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Justin on Wednesday 31 July 2019, 03:32
This question is mainly directed towards Mark since he is the Raff aficionado and guru (all flattery intended), but I'll ask everyone in case they have any information:

Will there be a performance of the third symphony this year or next? It was composed in 1869, and was first premiered in 1870. Therefore we have a 150th anniversary this year for its composition, and another one next year for its debut performance.

I would be surprised if there isn't anything planned to commemorate what is arguably his best work.
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 31 July 2019, 07:43
Thanks for the flattery, it's always welcome! Actually, I don't know of any planned performances of Im Walde, but like you I'd be very pleased to learn of one. I've only been to one myself, just over 10 years ago in a small Swedish town on the border with Norway. It made a terrific impression in the concert hall, I must say.
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Justin on Wednesday 31 July 2019, 15:11
Thanks, Mark. It's unlikely anything will be performed here in the States. Maybe I can catch one on my next trip to Europe.
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 31 July 2019, 16:25
Would that there were one to catch anywhere in Europe...
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 31 July 2019, 16:47
Indeed.
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 31 July 2019, 22:26
May 14 2020, Tapiola Sinfonietta, I believe. Conducted by Mario Venzago.
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 01 August 2019, 07:23
Oh, well done Eric. I must admit that my "Raff time" is at present so monopolised that I can't keep right up to date with concert performances.
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 01 August 2019, 10:15
Evidently the Tapiola Sinfonietta concerts take place in Espoo, in southern Finland. Could make rather an interesting trip...
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Justin on Thursday 01 August 2019, 19:13
Great to hear! May be going to Finland next year, then!
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 01 August 2019, 20:15
Would it be a problem that this is a 43-piece orchestra, though? Can they really do justice to Raff's great work or would we be disappointed?
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 01 August 2019, 21:58
The performance I heard in Karlstad was with a similar-sized orchestra and it made a terrific impression (read my review (http://www.raff.org/news/reviews/2009/karlstad.htm)). I'm sure that someone like Järvi conducting a world-class, full-size band would make even more of the work, but if the Tapiola Sinfonietta are of the standard of the Swedish orchestra, and if Mario Venzago understands Raff as well as Henrik Schaefer did, then the music itself is robust enough to work its magic, as it did in Sweden.
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 01 August 2019, 22:06
Well, Venzago has recorded Raff before (has anyone here heard those recordings of his late symphonies?)
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 01 August 2019, 23:08
Has Venzago recorded more than No.11?

That recording was made in 1981 - and my guess is that he's travelled a long way along the HIP route since then, so, as well as the size of his orchestra, the type of interpretation on offer might well be an issue. Or perhaps not...
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 01 August 2019, 23:12
The Tapiola Sinfonietta's Bruckner recordings for cpo have been rightly lambasted, I think. But Raff's a different matter, of course.
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 02 August 2019, 05:13
Ah, I see there's one other Raff performance/recording by Venzago available (online/YouTube, not on CD)- the recent Raff cello concerto no.1 with Croisé...
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: tpaloj on Saturday 03 August 2019, 10:17
Great find eschiss1. Espoo is only half an hour from downtown Helsinki and the venue is easily found and accessible. 25 euros for tickets is a steal, too.

QuoteWould it be a problem that this is a 43-piece orchestra, though?
The symphony requires 20 players for all other instruments discounting the strings. The other 23 players, for strings - with an arrangement of something like 8-6-4-3-2 - is less than Wagnerian but still in the realm of standard period section size. Although I'm not an expert, I'd like to think Raff would benefit from a smaller string section and it would not be detrimental, the music is so well written to work either way.

Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 03 August 2019, 16:26
I can (just about) accept that. But the question for me, as I said, is whether this would be a HIP-influenced performance, with vibrato-less strings, etc. I can go some of the way with smaller orchestras playing, say, Brahms symphonies (Mackerras' cycle with Scottish Chamber Orchestra makes sense), but going further down the HIP route (e.g. Ticciati's with the same orchestra) brings the law of diminishing returns, with poorly sustained legato from the strings, broken phrasing and a general lack of weight.

Incidentally, there's a lovely performance of Raff's 1st Cello Concerto on YouTube which Ilja kindly uploaded:
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,7153.msg75994.html#msg75994 (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,7153.msg75994.html#msg75994)
It's conducted by Venzago, but with the Bern Symphony Orchestra - a rather bigger ensemble than the Tapiola Sinfonietta.
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: FBerwald on Saturday 03 August 2019, 17:43
Christoph Croisé is committed to perform the 2nd cello concerto in 2022.
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 03 August 2019, 17:51
Well, the Espoo program also contains a Liszt symphonic poem and another work. If they're looking for historically-informed performance, it would behoove(?) them to augment the orchestra substantially and perform with a larger orchestra; an orchestra of such a small size suitable for a late-18th century or early-19th century work -can- be used for - but is not historically correct for - Liszt or Raff. Certainly it goes against Liszt's wishes for his poems, afaik. (Probably perfect for Schoenberg's slight enlargement of his own Chamber Symphony no.1, though - tangentially- and certainly for Strauss' Metamorphosen, which I'm guessing they've recorded... :) )

Edit: I see they have recorded Liszt's piano concertos under Jean-Jacques Kantorow. (The two reviews I've read don't tackle the question of whether they were augmented or not, or whether it was a problem.) Venzago and the Sinfonietta have recorded Bruckner 5 for cpo; if this was just the 41-player band, this is an interesting question too (... Bruckner 5 with 40 people?...) I'll see if I can catch a listen to that, maybe via NML.) Anyhow, I ramble bye.

Good news re Croisé.
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 03 August 2019, 22:34
Well, folk can listen to excerpts from Venzago's Bruckner 5 here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bruckner-Symphony-No-Mario-Venzago/dp/B00OTUP6W4/ref=tmm_msc_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1564867882&sr=8-3 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bruckner-Symphony-No-Mario-Venzago/dp/B00OTUP6W4/ref=tmm_msc_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1564867882&sr=8-3)

Note too the wildly varying opinions as regards his approach!
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 03 August 2019, 22:46
Other Raff works in 2019/20 include(d) the US premiere of De Profundis a few months ago (practice- I mean, Carnegie Hall)and (2/22/2020 in Livermore, California) a movement (only, unfortunately) of the 8th symphony. Also, someone did one of his Shakespeare overtures last week (7/24 and again 9/13,14- Konzert Sinfonieorchester Kanton Schwyz)... I agree the 3rd symphony is rarely done but his name generally is turning up more often than was. The 3rd piano trio was done last December in Geneseo NY, too ...
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Justin on Wednesday 27 November 2019, 04:34
Quote from: Alan Howe on Thursday 01 August 2019, 10:15
Evidently the Tapiola Sinfonietta concerts take place in Espoo, in southern Finland. Could make rather an interesting trip...

Yes, just bought my seat to attend the performance next year. Should be an interesting experience to see if it can capture the same magic a large orchestra can.
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: Justin on Friday 20 March 2020, 21:09
QuoteYes, just bought my seat to attend the performance next year. Should be an interesting experience to see if it can capture the same magic a large orchestra can.

Unfortunately the performance has been canceled due to Covid-19. There hasn't been any plans for this to be rescheduled or streamed online.
Title: Re: Raff - Symphony No. 3 - 2019-2020 Performances
Post by: dhibbard on Saturday 21 March 2020, 04:21
oh yes.