Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Sharkkb8 on Tuesday 15 October 2019, 02:24

Title: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Sharkkb8 on Tuesday 15 October 2019, 02:24
Apple's music app is announcing Auguste Dupont's Piano Concerto #3, and Benoit's Symphonic Poem for Piano & Orch as #80 in Hyperion's Romantic Piano Concerto series.  Howard Shelley playing; release date Jan 31.  This is not the first time I've seen something announced within Apple's sphere and nowhere else, including on Hyperion's own website....at least I didn't find anything with a first try.  Seems curious to me, as if it's a right-hand-unaware-of-the-left-hand kind of timing.  But what do I know?   ::)   

(Still can't make the insert-picture function work with Dropbox, don't know why it just reveals tiny blue question mark image)

https://music.apple.com/us/album/dupont-benoit-piano-concertos/1483043767 (https://music.apple.com/us/album/dupont-benoit-piano-concertos/1483043767)

Gregory
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Sharkkb8 on Tuesday 15 October 2019, 02:39
I was unfamiliar with Auguste Dupont; here's his Wikipedia entry:

Auguste Dupont, full name Pierre-Auguste Dupont, (9 February 1827 - 17 December 1890) was a Belgian pianist and composer.[1]

A laureate of the Royal Conservatory of Liège, where he was a student of Jules Jalheau, he travelled for a time as a musician in Germany, England and the Netherlands. While performing in Berlin, he was introduced to Giacomo Meyerbeer who gave him work for a time and who often mentions him in his diary.[2] In 1850, he became a professor at the Royal Conservatory of Brussels. He composed several major pieces for concerts and pieces of chamber music.[3] He was also the editor of the series École de piano du Conservatoire de Bruxelles, forty booklets of classical masterpieces.[4] He became a teacher of chamber music in 1886.[5]

His brother was the violinist and composer Joseph Dupont.


Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: FBerwald on Tuesday 15 October 2019, 06:32
Wonderful news! I particularly like the Benoit Piano Concerto. It seems from the Antwerp Conservatoire website that they have been trying to get Hyperion interested in recording the piano concertos of  Benoit and Charles-Louis Hanssens and that the Benoit concerto was to be recorded in early 2018. I'm not familiar with the second composer but look forward very much to this release.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: 4candles on Thursday 17 October 2019, 10:15
Delighted to hear this! I remember being in touch with Mike Spring about the Dupont some years ago and before his departure from Hyperion, so I'm very glad to see this is coming to fruition. I admit to not knowing about the Benoit piece, but I'm always interested in concertante works of the 'symphonique' variety!
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Revilod on Thursday 17 October 2019, 16:56
So, the Benoit "Symphonic Poem" is the same work as the Piano Concerto which is currently available on Naxos. That's right, isn't it? It's a very fine work indeed. The finale in particular is a real Lisztian tour-de-force.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 17 October 2019, 20:28
Yes, that's right.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 18 October 2019, 01:26
I think some works by Dupont have been mentioned here before and _a_ piano concerto of his is at IMSLP but I didn't know he wrote more than one :)

Belated edit: oh, whoops: Auguste, not Gabriel- edit 2: yes, Auguste's piano concerto in F minor op.49 pub.1882...
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 27 October 2019, 09:09
Excerpt available here:
https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/ym.asp?ym=2020_02 (https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/ym.asp?ym=2020_02)
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: FBerwald on Thursday 14 November 2019, 04:54
Soundclips of all the movements available...
https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68264 (https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68264)
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 14 November 2019, 10:08
I had confused this Dupont with the much later Gabriel. Note to self: must read thread properly!

I think this is a most enterprising venture - how on earth does Howard Shelley do it? Conducting too...
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Droosbury on Thursday 14 November 2019, 13:29
I did too when I first saw mention of this disc! We desperately need more of Gabriel's work on disc, following on from the disc of orchestral works released earlier this year.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Ilja on Thursday 14 November 2019, 14:01
Benoit's Piano Concerto is the second half of a "symphonic poem", the first of which is made up by the Flute Concerto, Op. 43a (written two years earlier, in 1864). The Naxos recording combines these, although inexplicably with the entirely unrelated Elzenkoning (King of the Aulders) Overture in the middle.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 14 November 2019, 14:57
The Hyperion notes quote Fetis as the authority for 2 earlier PCs plus a Concerto Symphonique for piano & orchestra. A quick and superficial trawl through online catalogues of likely libraries reveals only a Concertstuck (sic) for piano & orchestra in addition to the PC on this disk. Any clues as to whether the works Fetis mentions have survived?
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 14 November 2019, 19:37
ah ok, Dupont's concerto is given in Hyperion's PDF as op.49 in F minor- the same work IMSLP has in full score.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Thursday 14 November 2019, 20:11
That's right, Eric. The Concertstuck is Op. 42, according to catalogue data.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: 4candles on Friday 15 November 2019, 12:42
The Conservatoire de Liege also seems to have the Concerto en mi mineur – presumably the 'Concerto symphonique' – although it seems they only have the string parts and full score rather than a full set of parts.

The early concerto mentioned by Fétis is presumably his Op.11, of which only the first movement seems to exist (for e.g. in the British Library) as a reduction/arrangement for piano.

Finally, the other 'concerto' mentioned by Fétis and marked in the liner notes as Op.31, may be an error by Fétis. The opus is actually a 'Grande étude de concert pour le piano. Op. 31' according to the BnF catalogue.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: FBerwald on Friday 15 November 2019, 15:39
This Concerto symphonique in E minor seems worthy of further investigation considering that Berlioz thought so highly of it... according to the booklet! If the Full score is available then the parts can be made.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 15 November 2019, 15:51
Well sleuthed, 4candles. Yes, that concerto symphonique is intriguing. I wonder if they would copy the full score. I shall ask. Do you have the catalogue number to hand?
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: 4candles on Friday 15 November 2019, 16:19
On looking again, it looks like were looking at a manuscript rather than a printed copy.

The various materials are in 'Fonds Dupont, August (60) / Location: BLc 02 (mezzanine) / Cote 0211 / Barcodes 1056006 (carton 11 - string parts) , 1056008 (carton 4b - string parts) and 1056009 (carton 4a - L'harmonie)'. Where's 007 I wonder?!  ;)

Hope that helps.

Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 15 November 2019, 22:10
QuoteWhere's 007 I wonder?!

Indeed.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ0Sbqhf8w_23JEzFcEIt1iPCfInncyg43g11mBVO-lREO7d5Aw5g&s)
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Saturday 16 November 2019, 03:27
Thanks, 4candles. I found it. Yes a MS full score. Well, one can but ask.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 16 November 2019, 09:42
Best wishes for the attempt, Gareth...
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Sharkkb8 on Tuesday 28 January 2020, 04:23
This Hyperion "Romantic Piano Concerto" thread has understandably quieted down a bit, but....the recording is scheduled for release at the end of this week.

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8697038--dupont-benoit-piano-concertos (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8697038--dupont-benoit-piano-concertos)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Romantic-Concerto-Shelley-Sinfonieorchester-Hyperion/dp/B07ZW9Y395/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=benoit+dupont&qid=1580185122&s=music&sr=1-1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Romantic-Concerto-Shelley-Sinfonieorchester-Hyperion/dp/B07ZW9Y395/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=benoit+dupont&qid=1580185122&s=music&sr=1-1)

https://www.amazon.com/Romantic-Piano-Concerto-Vol-80/dp/B07ZW9Y395/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Romantic+Piano+Concerto+80&qid=1580185248&sr=8-1 (https://www.amazon.com/Romantic-Piano-Concerto-Vol-80/dp/B07ZW9Y395/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Romantic+Piano+Concerto+80&qid=1580185248&sr=8-1)

https://music.apple.com/us/album/dupont-benoit-piano-concertos/1483043767 (https://music.apple.com/us/album/dupont-benoit-piano-concertos/1483043767)
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 31 January 2020, 14:04
Auguste Dupont's Piano Concerto No.3 turns out to be a very worthwhile and enjoyable, if anonymous, discovery. The expansive first movement is properly dramatic, although I suspect that its material may prove to be unmemorable, and the finale avoids tail-chasing while still being chock-full of pianistic fireworks, but the slow movement is an absolutely gorgeous gem of a piece, sensuously lyrical and heartfelt. I'd certainly welcome an opportunity to hear more of Dupont's music. Needless to say Howard Shelley gives his all in a very committed performance.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: 4candles on Tuesday 21 January 2025, 12:00
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Saturday 16 November 2019, 03:27Thanks, 4candles. I found it. Yes a MS full score. Well, one can but ask.
I'm curious, Gareth, whether you had any success with the Dupont from Liege? I've been looking at his early Allegro du Concerto, Op.11, (with markings for instrumental groups in the introductory harmony and throughout) and it would surely make an obvious disk coupling with this MS Concerto in E minor above.

Best wishes.
4c
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: 4candles on Tuesday 21 January 2025, 15:17
Quote from: 4candles on Friday 15 November 2019, 12:42The Conservatoire de Liege also seems to have the Concerto en mi mineur – presumably the 'Concerto symphonique' – although it seems they only have the string parts and full score rather than a full set of parts.

The early concerto mentioned by Fétis is presumably his Op.11, of which only the first movement seems to exist (for e.g. in the British Library) as a reduction/arrangement for piano.

Finally, the other 'concerto' mentioned by Fétis and marked in the liner notes as Op.31, may be an error by Fétis. The opus is actually a 'Grande étude de concert pour le piano. Op. 31' according to the BnF catalogue.

Interestingly (and perhaps Gareth has in the intervening time discovered this for himself), since my earlier post I have now seen that the Conservatoire de Liège also has a 'Fantaisie pour piano et orchestre. Esquisse', his Op.13 - in their supporting notes it says 'Concerto pour piano'. Perhaps this was the early concerto that Fétis mentioned in his writings? In any case we now potentially have two early works for piano and orchestra (this 'Fantaisie' and the earlier 'Allegro du Concerto', Op.11) which have the potential to join the Concerto in E minor on record. Only time (and an enterprising pianist and record label) will tell!

4c
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: promusician on Thursday 23 January 2025, 22:21
Thanks for the information! Upon asking Conservatoire de Liège librarian, they agree to digitize the scores with a cost of 0.20€ per page, which is more than reasonable. If anyone wanted to join this project, please let me know. First priority of digitization will be the Concerto in E minor (196 pages)
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: 4candles on Monday 27 January 2025, 11:25
I don't know how I missed it, but Dupont also has a 'Fantaisie Dramatique pour piano et orchestre', Op.79, to his name in Liège. The supporting notes give 'piano seul', but that is also the case with the early 'Allegro du Concerto' (ie it is possible individual instruments/instrumental groups are indicated in the score.

4c
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: promusician on Tuesday 28 January 2025, 09:34
Quote from: promusician on Thursday 23 January 2025, 22:21Thanks for the information! Upon asking Conservatoire de Liège librarian, they agree to digitize the scores with a cost of 0.20€ per page, which is more than reasonable. If anyone wanted to join this project, please let me know. First priority of digitization will be the Concerto in E minor (196 pages)

I have asked in detail for this material.

Unfortunately, the material score contains all the parts : 2 flutes, oboe, clarinet, four horns, basson, 3 trombones, trumpets and kettledrum. There is no conductor but all these parts.

So another carton have the strings parts but no full score and piano part
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: 4candles on Tuesday 28 January 2025, 11:05
How very frustrating! Perhaps the missing boxes (007, and 005 or 010? - presumably piano and full score) were used for the last performance of the work, if that could be established.

Were they able to help regarding the two 'Fantaisies', Op.13 and 79?
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 28 January 2025, 13:42
Who published the work, or is it unpublished and only in MS? If published there is a chance the publisher will have the piano part in their archives (if they can be bothered to look!) even if no full score was printed.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: 4candles on Tuesday 28 January 2025, 14:27
The only information I currently have is that this work (the Concerto in E minor) is in manuscript, and was not published. If it was ever passed under the nose of a publisher, I'd say Schott in Brussels would have been a very likely contender. Their archive is partially online, but is going through a complete review and so their full archive won't be online/available for at least another few months.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: promusician on Tuesday 28 January 2025, 14:39
Very unfortunate, I think the parts are from copyist handwriting, for a performance. There must be a full score originally from Dupont but we need more investigation on where it may be. There is no opus number so very unlikely it was ever published, but there is a chance Dupont sent it to Schott
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: promusician on Tuesday 28 January 2025, 15:05
Quote from: 4candles on Tuesday 28 January 2025, 11:05How very frustrating! Perhaps the missing boxes (007, and 005 or 010? - presumably piano and full score) were used for the last performance of the work, if that could be established.

Were they able to help regarding the two 'Fantaisies', Op.13 and 79?

Their reply:
The two fantaisies are sketches as archival pieces : they are not completed and ready to use for a performance.

Unfortunately..
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 28 January 2025, 16:21
There need not necessarily be a full score. Often only the piano part with cues, or a 2-piano score were produced, plus a set of orchestral parts of course. This is true of Dreyschock's PC and some of those by Herz and Moscheles - others too.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 28 January 2025, 21:23
Not what they said, though. Difference between Spohr sym 1 which for the longest time was published only as parts, and a work they can only find in sketch...
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: promusician on Wednesday 29 January 2025, 10:22
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Tuesday 28 January 2025, 16:21There need not necessarily be a full score. Often only the piano part with cues, or a 2-piano score were produced, plus a set of orchestral parts of course. This is true of Dreyschock's PC and some of those by Herz and Moscheles - others too.

The problem is we are missing the most crucial element (piano part), no where we can reconstruct the piece with only orchestral parts. The other two fantasies are survived in sketches (esquisse). So we are left with three concertante works: Concerto in F minor Op.49, premier allegro du concerto op.11 (piano solo with cues) and concertstuck op.42

Very unfortunate!
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: 4candles on Wednesday 29 January 2025, 12:32
I've gone down a bit of a rabbit-hole and, interestingly, I've just come across a contemporary French review mentioning the performance of a "Ballade and Minuetto Scherzo from his concerto in E minor...". It appears that these pieces were the ones Berlioz praised - his review is noted in an article from 1873 here (https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1177768h/f406.image.r=dupont).

The leading question now, for me, is whether the music of the published Concertstück, Op.42, which has these movement headings, bears any resemblance to that of the manuscript Concerto in E minor. Another later review mentions a performance of the Concerto in E minor by Dupont in Louvain, 1875, but no movement titles are given. A performance by Dupont in 1862 gives the first movement as 'Allegro', but no final movement title is given.

Finally, at least one other concerto is mentioned in earlier reviews from 1862-63; in the latter year, the key of D minor is attributed. So Fétis may have been correct after all!

More questions than answers then, but perhaps we are getting closer!?
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: promusician on Wednesday 29 January 2025, 13:38
Excellent research! If these are the two middle movements of the concerto symphonique, then we are left with first movement and final movement. We do not know without looking at the surviving manuscript parts of concerto en mi mineur. I have a 2 piano reduction of the concertstuck, will look through.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: 4candles on Wednesday 29 January 2025, 15:38
I have checked with the Schott Archive and they appear to hold the materials for the Concertstück, Op.42 and the already-recorded concerto, op.49, but they have no other concertante works.
Title: Re: Hyperion RPC #80 - Dupont PC #3 and Benoit Symphonic Poem
Post by: promusician on Thursday 30 January 2025, 22:47
Out of curiosity, I asked further for the two incomplete fantaisie sketches.
"The sketches of the op. 13 contains 30 pages without a music end and only the piano part. The sketches of the op. 79 contains only 4 pages with an end but only the piano part too."