Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: dhibbard on Sunday 05 April 2020, 05:55

Title: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: dhibbard on Sunday 05 April 2020, 05:55
I just acquired the 5CD set on Chandos of orchestral works of d'Indy... what wonderful works... enjoying the CD#5 in the series... Symphonies sur un Chant montagnard francais... which is really a piano concerto in some regard. 
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: adriano on Sunday 05 April 2020, 09:06
There are some wonderful (and more French-touched) recordings from the 1970-90s on EMI, conducted by Pierre Dervaux, Georges Prêtre, Serge Baudo and Michel Plasson. They have all been reissued on CD. In my opinion D'Indy's "Symphonie Cévénole" (the one with piano) is not an unsung piece anymore. I also recommend his opera "L'Etranger" (on the label Accord) and the 3 volumes of his piano works on the German label Genuin.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Revilod on Sunday 05 April 2020, 09:18
I suppose the "Symphonie Cevenole" is as close to a "sung" piece by D'Indy that there is but it's still rarely performed in the U.K. It hasn't been heard at the London Proms since 1951 when Kathleen long played it. There's a fantastically exciting if rather brash recording/performance by Nicole Henriot-Schweitzer, Charles Munch and the Boston Symphony on RCA.  It  will knock your socks off!
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 05 April 2020, 16:51
From a British perspective I'd say anything by d'Indy (who he?) is unsung.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Rainolf on Sunday 05 April 2020, 17:35
Very interesting are the recordings Pierre Monteux made for RCA of d'Indy's Symphonie cevenole and Symphony No. 2 during the 1940s, because Monteux was a close friend of the composer. There is a recording of Istar by Monteux, too, but I do not know this.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: dhibbard on Sunday 05 April 2020, 19:20
this Chandos series features the Iceland Symphony Orchestra... which records as a  top-class orchestra,  however, young they appear in the market.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: dhibbard on Sunday 05 April 2020, 21:17
The conductor on these recordings is British conductor Rumon Gamba  studied at the Royal Academy of Music
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Joachim Raff on Monday 06 April 2020, 19:33
Im finding i like early d'Indy rather than later d'Indy. 
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 06 April 2020, 19:58
What about the great 2nd Symphony (1902-3)?
Here's the second movement under Gamba:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWgn4QLL3Mc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWgn4QLL3Mc)
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: adriano on Tuesday 07 April 2020, 07:16
The Second Symphony is just great. The old EMI CD has it coupled (under Plasson) with the Symphonie Cévenole (under Baudo).
I consider "Istar". "Dyptique méditerranéen" and "Poème des rivages" among his most notable works.
These three works have also been excellently recorded by Emmanuel Krivine on Timpani - in my opinion much better than by Gamba.
Of course, Naxos has also produced various D'Indy CDs in the past...
I also like D'Indy's opera "Fervaal" (which was broadcast last year from Montpellier and has still not been issued on CD). See "Downloads".
His "Third Symphony" and "La Légende de Saint-Christophe" are testimonials of D'Indy's strong chauvinism and anti-semitism.
Here an interesting study:
https://repertoire-explorer.musikmph.de/wp-content/uploads/vorworte_prefaces/4120.html
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Joachim Raff on Tuesday 07 April 2020, 13:28
I have listened to Symphony No2 and i thought it was so more advanced compared to his 1st. I think it needs more than one airing to appreciate the piece, so i want to reserve any opinion on my liking or disliking. Its was the Gamba recording that i listened to.   
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Ilja on Tuesday 07 April 2020, 15:10
Gamba's not bad at all, nor is Tingaud, but Plasson's old recording for EMI is still my go-to in spite of the somewhat muffled sound. I'm curious as to the Timpani recording with Krivine, but it's not listed on Timpani's D'Indy page (http://www.timpani-records.com/dindy.php).


As for the first symphony, I was mightily impressed with Bringuier with the Orchestre de Bretagne on Timpani. The coupling with the rarely-heard Concert for piano, flute and cello with string orchestra, Op. 89 is attractive too.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 07 April 2020, 16:09
I became a fan of d'Indy through his chamber music, myself.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: adriano on Tuesday 07 April 2020, 17:04
Here the infos, Ilja

https://www.allmusic.com/album/vincent-dindy-orchestral-works-po%C3%A8me-des-rivages-istar-diptyque-m%C3%A9diterran%C3%A9en-mw0001847761?1586275412317
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Ilja on Tuesday 07 April 2020, 17:35
Sorry Adriano, I interpreted your post to mean that Krivine had also recorded the 2nd Symphony - my mistake. This recording I know quite well and as you say, it's excellent.


A work that hasn't been mentioned sofar and may be my favorite d'Indy opus is La Foret enchantée, a "légende-symphonie" after a ballad by Ludwig Uhland, Op. 8. It's among his first works (1878) but already very accomplished. There are wagnerianisms here and there, but mostly it is already recognizably d'Indy. There are recordings by Dervaux and Gamba. To me, the Dervaux (with the Orchestre Philharmonique des Pays de Loire) is the vastly superior of the two.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: adriano on Tuesday 07 April 2020, 20:10
I fully agree with you, Ilja :-)
Dervaux does it with the necessary esprit françaix; and so do Baudo and Plasson.
I also like "La forêt enchantée" very much, it's actually the first D'Indy piece I would hear in my 20s.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: dhibbard on Wednesday 08 April 2020, 02:18
Yes the Enchanted Forest is wonderful.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: alberto on Wednesday 08 April 2020, 14:07
Literally historical in the d'Indy discography is a recording of "La mort de Wallenstein" (last panel of the early symphonic tryptich "Wallenstein") conducted by the composer himself . I have it on a vinyl of the rather esoteric  Canadian label "Rococo" (no credits for the orchestra or time of recording).
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: adriano on Wednesday 08 April 2020, 14:55
Alberto, this was a 2x10" 78rpm on the Pathé Label of 1931.
Catalog Number X-8806.
The orchestra is not even mentioned on the original shellacks.
Rococo was a bootleg label. They issued a lot of historical discs and also contemporary live concerts.

Here a nice page on D'Indy with work list and pictures:

https://www.musicologie.org/Biographies/i/indy_vincent.htm
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: adriano on Thursday 09 April 2020, 06:30
... and his disc features d'Indy's most unsung orchestral pieces:

https://www.amazon.com/dIndy-Symphony-Italienne-Concerto-Strings/dp/B00103E368
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Ilja on Thursday 09 April 2020, 13:49
Quote from: alberto on Wednesday 08 April 2020, 14:07
Literally historical in the d'Indy discography is a recording of "La mort de Wallenstein" (last panel of the early symphonic tryptich "Wallenstein") conducted by the composer himself . I have it on a vinyl of the rather esoteric  Canadian label "Rococo" (no credits for the orchestra or time of recording).


Fortunately, this recording (Les Autographes Vocaux) is on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/album/6QM9xcAev2eSeg2ewROM7Y?si=4yZU0oyIRhuJnbZ2DdYzxw), and contains the voice and the music (conducted by the composer) of d'Indy, Hüe, Büsser, Inghelbrecht, Widor, Ropartz, Roussel and Schmitt.


Edit: I see that this recording contains the first movement of Wallenstein (Wallenstein's Camp) rather than the last.



Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: alberto on Thursday 09 April 2020, 19:18
The concerto for piano, flute, cello and string orchestra quoted by Adriano in post 19 was released in 1982 by Erato with Rampal, Duchable, Lodeon, J.F.Paillard and his orchestra.
It has just now been released as Cd in a box dedicated to J.F.Paillard.......of 134 Cds! I remain satisfied with the Lp.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 09 April 2020, 21:46
I have an LP somewhere of the suite Op.24, the Concert and I think also the Prélude to Karadec...
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: alberto on Friday 10 April 2020, 14:48
The Lp above contains the Triple Concerto, the Suite en RE  dans le style ancien, and the incidental music for Karadec  op.34 (Prèlude-Chansone-Noce Bretonne). Some recordings of the last exist.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: dhibbard on Friday 10 April 2020, 15:17

alberto said   "  La mort de Wallenstein" I have it on a vinyl of the rather esoteric  Canadian label "Rococo"

I don't see this piece on any of the 5CD set of Chandos.. perhaps there will be a volume 6??
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 10 April 2020, 15:22
There already is a volume 6 (CHAN10585, released 1st March 2010) and "Wallenstein" is on that.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: alberto on Friday 10 April 2020, 15:41
Of the "Wallenstein" trilogy  there are also recordings of Dervaux, already mentioned, and Thierry Fischer (Hyperion). Of the last panel "La mort de Wallenstein" existed (also on Cd) an old Supraphon by Zoltan Fekete, coupled to "Istar" and two Berlioz overtures.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: dhibbard on Saturday 11 April 2020, 00:54
QuoteThere already is a volume 6 (CHAN10585, released 1st March 2010) and "Wallenstein" is on that.
I guess I didn't see that when I ordered the 5 CD set....   just ordered Vol 6   Thanks !!
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: semloh on Sunday 12 April 2020, 04:19
Many thanks to Adriano for the link to the commentary on La Légende de Saint Christophe. I had no idea of D'Indy's antisemitism.
La Foret Enchantée, is my favourite work by D'Indy, thanks to Radio 3 broadcasts many decades ago.

Would someone like to comment on his chamber music? It's time I revisited his Sextet.

[Apologies for late responses - I'm running a few days behind everyone else, despite Aus. being ahead on time difference!]
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: adriano on Sunday 12 April 2020, 07:56
My pleasure, semloh :-)

If Meyerbeer hadn't been of German origin, would D'Indy's anti-semitism have been less fanatical? It's the eternal French-German hatred, which had also caused wars!
Additionally to that, Meyerbeer had been extremely successful. And he was an offspring of a very rich family of bankers and sugar manufacturers. The D'Indy's were noble, but perhaps less rich. Anti-semitism is often grounded on purely personal envy and national hatred. And those, who theoretisize their anti-semitic feelings in pamphlets and books (see Wagner etc.) prove that they really have a personal problem!

Here a contemporary, very valuable study:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/737849?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

An interesting quotation: "D'Indy's most conspicuous fault is without doubt that of overbalance in the intellectual aspect of his art. His preoccupation in behalf of the architectural and stylistic elements often leads to a neglect of the emotional, and a consequent reproach that is music is 'cérebrale' "
This is perhaps quite apt as far as many of D'Indy's works are concerned, but the author of the study then makes a silly comparison with Brahms...

Again, I recommend a listening of D'Indy's (non-antisemitic) opera "L'Etranger": The theme (the libretto is by the composer) is that of a rich, but generous and helpful "foreigner", causing a lot of trouble in a fisherman's village. A sort of "Flying Dutchman" situation, but set into a more naturalistic milieu. This is, in my opirion, D'Indy's best opera, a very powerful work.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 17 April 2020, 01:27
If Meyerbeer had been of German origin? You mean if he'd been, say, born in Tasdorf, near Berlin? No, can't imagine ...
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: adriano on Friday 17 April 2020, 22:26
Of course he was, eschiss, my formulation was put in the wrong form; I've corrected it. My G*d, how careful one has to be in here with every word...
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: eschiss1 on Sunday 19 April 2020, 16:13
given that you went off on a long rant very recently indeed aggrieved by something I did not say, let's say I am not entirely sympathetic.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Alan Howe on Sunday 19 April 2020, 17:22
And, with that, back to d'Indy, please.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Sunday 19 April 2020, 20:27
And, gentlemen, please let's not quarrel. We are all friends on this forum... or ought to be. I am sure no-one ever really means to give offence. It's just that the written word does not convey the tone of voice, facial expression, etc of the speaker, so it is easy for a wrong impression to be given.

Now d'Indy, I must confess, is someone I have never really got to grips with. But only in the sense that I have not heard much of his music. Apart from the Symphony on a French Mountaineer's Song, that is. Could someone, more knowledgeable suggest a good place for me to start? There are certainly no dearth of recordings...
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: adriano on Monday 20 April 2020, 11:00
Gareth, try out the Istar Variations, Poème des rivages, la Forêt enchantée and Tableaux de voyage. And perhaps his Piano Sonata op. 63 :-)
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Kevin on Monday 20 April 2020, 11:10
Don't forget his L'Etranger - a satisfying opera if you ask me.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 20 April 2020, 11:59
Thank you very much for the suggestions.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 20 April 2020, 12:56
I'm sure it's not the best but I've been very satisfied with the Kodaly Quartet's recording of d'Indy's first two (of 3) string quartets.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: jdperdrix on Monday 20 April 2020, 17:50
I recommend the 2-CD recording of his 3 quartets and sextet by Quatuor Joachim. They range from his Franckian period (1 and 2) to his neo-classical period (3 and sextet). I'm not sure the physical CDs are still available, but it can still be downloaded.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: semloh on Wednesday 22 April 2020, 23:18
Yes, jdperdrix, I enjoy the JoachimQt recordings, too. What do you think about the Sextet?
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 23 April 2020, 03:01
I know that question was directed at jdperdrix but I have a question about the sextet. I may be thinking of someone else's but fairly sure it's d'Indy's finale whose variations finale is for want of a better phrase quite magical, neoclassical in its use of a fugue and concluding quodlibet but not classically especially "restrained", or does it strike others otherwise?
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: mjmosca on Friday 24 April 2020, 15:17
May I inquire if the recording of L'étranger that was made of the 2010 Montpelier Festival broadcast is still available? I have looked for it through the usual channels and can not find it anywhere. I thought that the performance of Fervaal available through the Download site, was very interesting- and beautifully cast, a fine presentation. Thank you.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: jdperdrix on Friday 24 April 2020, 17:28
L'étranger can still be downloaded from Qobuz for example.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: semloh on Friday 24 April 2020, 23:38
Eric - I'll have a listen, with your comment/question in mind, and get back!
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Wheesht on Friday 08 May 2020, 18:55
The 2010 recording of "L'étranger" will be  broadcast  (https://www.swr.de/swr2/musik-klassik/vincent-dindy-letranger-swr2-oper-2020-05-10-100.html) on German Radio SWR 2 this Sunday 10 May at 8.03 pm CEST.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: adriano on Friday 08 May 2020, 21:01
"L'Etranger": In he textbook of the Accord CD, on pages 38-39 they erroneously reproduced on the right side the original French again, so that page 39 has no English translation. The recording is very good and I like the singers.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: semloh on Wednesday 13 May 2020, 03:47
Eric said. of the Sextet:
I may be thinking of someone else's but fairly sure it's d'Indy's finale whose variations finale is for want of a better phrase quite magical, neoclassical in its use of a fugue and concluding quodlibet but not classically especially "restrained", or does it strike others otherwise?

The third movement sounds restrained to my ears, Eric, but perhaps more accurately 'relaxed', though not without some sparkle. Indeed, my impression of the Sextet as a whole is that it is the work of someone who is at peace with the world and happy with his life (whether or not that was actually the case, I don't know, but the ending surely suggests it).
I love it! :)
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 13 May 2020, 13:42
I guess you're right - I think I know what I meant (a different sense of the word) but should not ask people to be telepathic as it were :) (I get irritated when I find others doing so, after all!...)

Anyhow. There are many different ends toward which "neo-classicism" in the broader(est) sense (not to be confused with Stravinsky's fairly specific kind) can arguably be applied, whether (I imagine partially for period effect? please correct me, I don't yet know the whole opera!) it's the appearance of the "Jolly Miller" in a Henry VIII opera by another well-known French composer almost a century before Havergal Brian wrote variations on the theme (sorry :D), or - well, helping to achieve the (various, not the same, I know) overall effects of works like d'Indy's early suite or late chamber works and concert, etc. (and 3rd symphony too?...)
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: dhibbard on Wednesday 27 May 2020, 06:04
I did not notice that Vol 6 of the Chandos series was a super audio CD until I put it in the player... and wow...Wallenstein is a wonder.   Of the total 6 CDs in the set, only Vol 6 is the super audio.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 27 May 2020, 11:36
...doesn't matter to me. I can't play the SACD layer on any of my devices; in any case I'm probably too old to hear the difference.
Title: Re: Vincent d'Indy
Post by: Kevin on Thursday 28 May 2020, 08:24
Quotein any case I'm probably too old to hear the difference.

I can't even hear the difference between 320 MP3 and lossless FLAC *shrugs*