Unsung Composers

The Music => Composers & Music => Topic started by: eschiss1 on Saturday 31 October 2020, 12:52

Title: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 31 October 2020, 12:52
Breitkopf apparently has recently published a new study score of Raff's first two string quartets (perusable here (https://issuu.com/breitkopf/docs/pb_5622-07_issuu).) Don't know if it's a critical edition or just a modern reprint of material that is available (IMSLP only has the parts of No.2, fwiw), but may be useful.
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 31 October 2020, 14:11
Unfortunately they haven't commissioned a decent English translation of the German. Why do these companies think that German nationals can come up with idiomatic English? An opportunity missed.

Yours truly is available. Might even do it free of charge...
Title: Re: Raff & Breitkopf
Post by: Mark Thomas on Saturday 31 October 2020, 14:12
They're modern, critical editions and Breitkopf plan a whole lot more apparently. It's a pity that they're partially duplicating Edition Nordstern, though.
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 02 November 2020, 13:47
Kein Kommentar...
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Monday 02 November 2020, 13:48
Well done, John. Very amusing.  It gave me laugh.
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 02 November 2020, 13:52
It has to me also a laugh given...
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 02 November 2020, 14:19
 :) As someone here once explained to me: you get a native English speaker to translate German into English, a native German speaker to translate English into German - not the other way around (as is the case here, I suspect). Mind you, not too long ago I stopped a translation from German into English courtesy of Google Translate being used in CD booklet notes!
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 02 November 2020, 14:29
A native English speaker whose German is painfully inadequate to the task (of translating German to English, if this is unclear) is also sometimes the problem. Often, even.
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 02 November 2020, 17:55
Genau, Herr Boyer!
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Double-A on Monday 02 November 2020, 23:52
Looking at the original German (using the link above) I can state with conviction that the German original "Vorwort" is badly written (except for "Vorwort").  Very badly.  Using the kind of convoluted syntax that Mark Twain was poking fun at in his famous evisceration of the German language.  Don't you agree, Alan?

This makes the task of a translator harder than it needs to be.  This translator however--and I'd swear it was a native German speaker--left this syntax intact as much as possible or rather much more than possible.  You might almost say that the result is a German text in bad style using English words rather than German words.

Given the fact that there are plenty of Germans who indeed can write proper English1), 2) this is really quite embarrassing for B&H.  And there are even a few in Germany who can write proper German...

1)  More than the other way round I'd bet.
2)  You can be far inferior to Nabokov and still far better than this translator--or indeed than the writer of the German original.
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 03 November 2020, 11:47
As I said, I'm available....
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 03 November 2020, 13:07
... where did Nabokov enter, out of curiosity- was he as much known for his translations as for his "original work" (as some well-known authors really were, e.g. Tolkien's work with Gawain and the Green Knight etc.)?
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 03 November 2020, 17:22
ah, ok. Thanks!
(And that reminds me of a really interesting essay on translating Don Quixote and issues in translating Renaissance Spanish- just for example, but it really was unexpectedly fascinating- anyway, thanks again.)
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 03 November 2020, 23:50
At a guess, the new MDG recording uses the new critical edition which was probably written for this purpose :D
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 04 November 2020, 08:13
It's a coincidence, Eric. B&H are planning a whole series of Raff critical editions.
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 04 November 2020, 16:57
ah, ok. (Also, I'd have described this as Kammermusik 2.heft or something like that, though this way maybe we get new recordings of the sextet and (another new recording- I certainly don't mind!!! of the) piano quintet :) (Presto seems no longer to offer the 2003 recording, but Amazon does (CD and MP3) and MDG still lists it, though. (https://www.mdg.de/titel/1181.htm))
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 04 November 2020, 19:01
A new recording of the Piano Quintet, with tempi and phrasing more like those found on Adriano's old LP performance, would certainly be welcome.
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 04 November 2020, 20:29
Have you heard the Divox recording of the Piano Quintet played by il Trittico and others? It's a huge improvement on that from MDG's Ensemble Villa Musica, and has the added bonus of the Phantasy, a little winner of a work (oh, and Goetz's Quintet, of course).
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 04 November 2020, 22:17
Mark's 100% correct here. The Divox recording is far more energised than the MDG.
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Wednesday 04 November 2020, 22:25
Thanks, both. I will certainly check it out.
Title: Re: Raff String Quartets 1 & 2 study score/Breitkopf
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 27 January 2021, 20:54
How good's the English?