For release in March 2021 on the Bridge label. A most welcome release for this rarely recorded work!
https://www.europadisc.co.uk/classical/150455/Piano_Protagonists:_Music_for_Piano_and_Orchestra_by_Rimsky-Korskaov,_Chopin_and_Korngold.htm
What an odd coupling. What does Chopin, Rimsky-Korsakov and Korngold have in common, I wonder. Besides Korngold is on the fringes of the forum spectrum. I've come to blows with admins here in the past reg. what's romantic and what's not. Despite being included in the Hyperion RPC, this work is a very odd duck.
I thought the key word in this forum was 'unsung' and not 'romantic'. Alan will correct me...if I am wrong.
Works written in the romantic vein from the first half of the 20th Century by other composers are welcomed and discussed here - from Gal to Franz Schmidt, with Egon Kornauth and Franx Schreker and many others.
If you consider Korngold's remarkable concerto an 'odd duck' (not a musicalogical term with which I am overly familiar) you are of course entitled to your opinion. But that is not a valid reason for the piece receiving a welcome recording, to be ignored or expunged from these lists.
As for the connection between the 3 work on the disc, there is none except that ALL were performed by these forces at various BARD festivals in the last few years.
QuoteI thought the key word in this forum was 'unsung' and not 'romantic'. Alan will correct me...if I am wrong.
The key words in this forum are to be found in our Guidelines:
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,3681.0.html
Quote'odd duck'
Evidently a familiar phrase to some of us:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Odd%20Duck
Quotenot a musicalogical term with which I am overly familiar
Not a spelling I'm familiar with either! ;)
Speaking purely personally, I won't be buying this new release - it'd be pure duplication. But if people haven't already got these pieces in their collection...
The connection between them? All three protagonised the piano?!
It looks an interesting disk. I don't think I will buy it, but that is only because I already have good versions of all three works and, in the case of Korngold, two different ones. But I am always pleased to see multiple recordings becoming available of relatively (at least in the case of the Rimsky-Korsakov and Korngold concertos) unsung repertoire.
I could actually see R-K and Korngold coupled given they are both single-movement concerti...and both in C# for that matter (though granted different modes).
Adding Chopin to the mix kinda makes it a 'this is what the pianist wanted to record' type of disc...
from that point of view it would have made more sense to add a (more popular) one-movement concerto in D-flat major composed by Sergei Prokofiev than the (even more popular) Chopin... (or perhaps Emanuel Moór's one-movement concerto Op.57 in D-flat.)
The Chopin Variations do seem oddly out of place.
I agree that it's a bit of an odd coupling. However, still pleased to see the Korngold (and R-K) recorded again. Every recording improves the chances that the works become better-known.
I have always found the Korngold concerto interesting, but at the same time also a little strange – do others agree that it seems surprisingly modernist or less pleasing the ear compared to K's other works from this period? It does not make the work less good or less genius, but this has always struck me since I first bought the Chandos CD in my teens.
As a side question, has anyone ever had the chance to hear the R-K or Korngold live? Probably an even rarer occasion than a recording. If yes, how did the public react (esp. for the Korngold, given my thoughts above)?
Best wishes,
ewk
I find the Korngold a rather schizoprenic work, with modernist elements I dislike, but that's just my view.
I still don't like it - it doesn't seem to me to 'add up'. But, as I said, that's just my view.
As far as the 2nd Viennese School is concerned, there are works that I (sort of) like and certainly admire, e.g. Berg's Violin Concerto, works that fascinate, but I just don't get because the language is so alien, and works that positively repel me. And overall, I think it was an aberration because tonality is where music's really at...
However, that's a debate for another day, on another forum. And with that, back to Korngold's PC.
I have heard Korngold's Piano Concerto "live" twice, both in Manchester.
The first was at the old BBC Studios in Oxford Road before an invited audience. That marked its UK premiere in 1985, a performance I arranged. The second was in 1987 at the Free Trade Hall with the Halle. The soloist on both occasions was the fabulous Gary Graffmann who was superb. The audience went wild after each performance. The conductor at the BBC was Georg Lehel and Korngold's son George attended the rehearsals and actually produced the broadcast gratis. The conductor at the Free Trade Hall was Sir Edward Downes, a big Korngold fan.
As for its 'modernist' aspects, this work was a natural development of Korngold's style after Die tote Stadt, that had already flirted with bitonality in the lush slow movement of his first string quartet (the preceding opus).
I think it also reflected his response to Wittgenstein's tragic disablity. Graffmann memorably described the concerto as a 'keyboard Salome'
I would add that one can never have too many recordings of a work, especially one as rarely performed as this. Each will reveal something new.
QuoteI would add that one can never have too many recordings of a work
Really? Fancy another 1812 Overture? Not me!
Of course, if it's unsung, further recordings are always welcome, although there are so many unrecorded masterpieces waiting to be done, I'd rather have
them. Example: Berger Symphony No. 2 or another Kormgold PC? I know which I'd choose.
Of course, I was not referring to standard repertory or the orchestral warhorses.............
Still, let's venture beyond Korngold a little, eh? I mean, ArkivMusic lists 37 recordings of the Violin Concerto; and the PC has now been recorded at least five times - by Stavy, De Groote, Shelley, Hamelin and Weiss. Unsung? Yes. Rarely recorded? Would that any number of major works I could mention had been recorded just once.
and as to the Chopin, there are many unrecorded and perhaps quite good Romantic Polish concertos worthy of a look- how about Sowinski's, for example- but one gets the idea. (Or Stojowski's Rhapsodie symphonique, for that matter .. Fortunately Zelenski's is no longer on the completely commercially unrecorded list, likewise Rozycki's 2, ... hrm :) )
Alan, I totally see your point that other composers are recorded less. But isn't Korngold just a fabulous success story of an unsung composer finally getting some attention (well-deserved I think, but that's surely a matter of taste)? In expert circles like here, he is not so unsung anymore, of course.
I understand you do not like some of his works, which is perfectly fine. What I do not understand, to be very honest, is the amount of criticism Mr Carroll earns every time he opens a thread on this board... But maybe I'm just prejudiced as a Korngold fan.
However, you are of course very much right that the money doing unto duplicate recordings could also go into first recordings! That it does not is probably because of economic reasons, as always...
Best wishes, ewk
I think Korngold is overrated, personally speaking - and is verging in some respects on the over-exposed (do we need another recording of the VC?) Now that he's emerged from his (undeserved) obscurity, I just don't find it all that interesting to pursue a thread such as this, focusing on the fifth recording of his PC. Compare, for example, this thread with others on this board and you'll mostly find instances of discussions of music receiving first recordings - or mentions of music which has never been recorded at all. Another example last year was the thread on the VC and String Sextet, with the latter receiving its fourteenth recording, according to Presto at the time.
If new threads are going to be started on Korngold, they should IMHO concentrate on unrecorded works (if there are any), or pieces that have received barely any attention. That would be of greater interest to me personally, although, of course, I accpet that some members come fresh to these discussions and appreciate the perspective that they offer.
OTOH it's very hard to say much at all about music receiving its first recording in -most- cases, even when the score is public domain, beyond announcing "look, this much anticipated work will finally be recorded."
Well, how about Grimm's Symphony? According to Chris Fifield, this is a pivotal work in the history of the Symphony in Germany: he discusses it at some length in his book, the score has been republished in an up-to-date edition and yet it's never been recorded. I mean, it doesn't even require a soloist, for crying out loud...
I agree that a recording of Otto Grimm's Symphony would be a very good thing indeed. We might be able to interest CPO once the world returns to nomality.
QuoteWhat I do not understand, to be very honest, is the amount of criticism Mr Carroll earns every time he opens a thread on this board
Let me just state where I stand:
1. Some of Korngold's music is just not unsung any more - and some has been recorded quite a lot by now such that comparisons between multiple versions is possible. However, we can, of course, continue to bring them to the notice of a wider audience at UC.
2. With regard to opera recordings, criticism inevitably focuses on two aspects - the quality of the singing and, in the case of DVDs, the type of production (the latter being all-too frequently the victim of the Regie culture in many opera houses/theatres). This, I think, is inevitably the case when studio-made recordings have become much rarer and live productions released on DVD have taken their place.
Was the Korngold Concerto ever recorded by Wittgenstein or is there something like a broadcast recording?
Quote from: ewk on Yesterday at 10:12
QuoteQuoteWhat I do not understand, to be very honest, is the amount of criticism Mr Carroll earns every time he opens a thread on this board...
I thought I was the only person who noticed.
...which means that I have overstepped the mark here. Accordingly, I apologise profusely for the offence that I have evidently caused.
A lot of people have messaged me privately expressing concern that I may have been upset by certain critical remarks made about my posts concerning Korngold and the new recordings of his music. I appreciate these kind concerns.
Rest assured however that I am very thick skinned and that, given the ever increasing interest in Korngold and his fine music, I shall continue to post news of new recordings and perfomances that I believe are significant. Of course I will not be listing every new release of his (by now) ubiquitous Violin Concerto which, at the last count, has racked up some 87 recorded versions!
In the case of the Piano Concerto, while there are indeed 5 recordings available, this highly original work almost never appears in live performances anywhere, which is why I posted the link. It is 'unsung' as a piece, so I believed it qualified for this forum. I consider it a significant work because it not only was the first LH Concerto to be commissioned by Paul Wittgenstein in March 1922, long before Ravel, Prokofiev, Strauss et alia, but it addressed the significant technical challenges of writing for the left alone to create the illusion of two hands playing, and solved the many probems therein, thereby offering the blueprint for those composers that followed him.
Yes, I am well used to Korngold being dismissed, criticised and sneered at as being second rate, overrated, lacking originality and whatever else. It will not deter me from being his chief advocate. And I am grateful for this forum offering a viable and pertinent source of information for -and about- him, from time to time.
BRENDAN CARROLL
Thanks to both Alan and Brendan for their messages. I'm now drawing a line under this area of debate.
Let's move on.
Now that we're back on the subject of the PC, perhaps, Brendan, you could offer your thoughts on the available recordings, especially the new one?
Alan, I will be glad to do so, once I have heard the new CD which is not due to land on my mat until mid March!
I believe there may be some such dissertations.
Scanlon, Emma (2017) Pianism Reimagined: an analytical inquiry of left-hand piano through the career and commissions of Paul Wittgenstein. PhD thesis, National University of Ireland Maynooth. (http://mural.maynoothuniversity.ie/10040/) (Downloadable dissertation) is one.
Wittgenstein made no visits to the recording studios in his prime so consequently, we have no recordings of him playing any of the works he commissioned. There's a filmed fragment of him playing part of the Ravel concerto from Paris in 1933, a longer sound recording of the same work made in 1937 and some early piano rolls for the Hupfeld company, and that is about it.
He did make a few solo recordings in the late 1950s of operatic transcriptions and the Bach-Busoni Chaconne (which he did not commission, incidentally) but these were hardly circulated and are now almost impossible to find.
The fact that he never recorded the Korngold concerto is therefore not a reflection on the work, or indeed his opinion of it. It was not recorded by other pianists because Wittgenstein owned its exclusive copyright that forbade anyone from performing or recording it during his lifetime. He died in 1961. This copyright applied to all of his commissions incidentally, which is why the Prokofiev did not receive its world premiere until 1956 (after Wittgenstein finally relented, not ever having played the work himself, and allowed Siegried Rapp to perform it).
As for published research, there have been a number of scholarly dissertations about Wittgenstein and some of these I listed in the bibliography of my biography of Korngold.
A proper biography of the artist has yet to be written however. I am not sure that this forum is the correct place for a specific thread on the subject. It would be an immense challenge to bring detailed analysis to a survey of the many left hand works he commissioned.
Quoteit not only was the first LH Concerto to be commissioned by Paul Wittgenstein in March 1922
Quite an honour, although his teacher Josef Labor had composed a Concert Piece in form of variations in D major in 1915 which Wittgenstein took up after he returned from WW1 during which he had lost his right arm (not a commission, obviously).
In fact, Labor - himself blind - seems to have been at least partially instrumental in Wittgenstein pursuing a career as a one-armed concert pianist:
Special mention must be made of the fact that Josef Labor's musical gift to the young amputee included a Konzertstück, a concert-piece, for piano solo with full symphony orchestra. This was not a little sonatina for piano solo, not something that Paul Wittgenstein would play at home by himself, or in front of the family. Josef Labor's gift was an unmistakable career-challenge. And while it is possible that Paul Wittgenstein would have required no urging to continue with his piano playing, it is also possible that he would have chosen another direction for his life.
https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/bitstream/10125/58341/835.txt
Wikipedia in fact lists three Konzertstücks for the left hand composed by Labor (1915, 1916, 1923):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Labor
QuoteAnd all yet to be committed to disc!
Quite. Yet another scandalously neglected composer.
And with that, back to Korngold's PC.
Well if we are going to discuss the history of compositions for the left hand alone, Josef Labor (while a great pioneer) was certainly not the progenitor of the genre.
The first ever LH Piano Concerto was composed in 1902 by Count Géza Zichy a pupil of Liszt who lost his right arm in a hunting accodent aged 15. He composed a large number of works and was a formidable pianist. I suspect it was his example that gave Wittgenstein the confidence to pursue a career as a left handed pianist. Zichy died in 1924 but I have no idea if the two ever met.
I would also cite the famous Brahms arrangement of Bach's Chaconne in D minor and Scriabin's wonderful Prelude and Nocturne as highly significant works, both of which Wittgenstein mastered and performed in recitals.
Josef Labor was a great influence as teacher and as well as his pupil Julius Bittner, he was a very close friend of Franz Schmidt who composed SIX works for Wittgenstein, one of which includes a set of variations on a theme by Labor.
Vienna was a very small world.
The history of one-handed keyboard music without orchestra goes back centuries further, to one of Bach's sons, much earlier than Brahms. Anyway.
QuoteJosef Labor (while a great pioneer) was certainly not the progenitor of the genre.
No, indeed not. It was his connection with Wittgenstein that interested me, not what had happened prior to that.
Anyway, let's return to the Korngold PC, shall we? Of the available recordings, which do members prefer?
Thanks for that. I have Hamelin - superb pianism, as one might expect, but is he too ruthless? Some think he is in the Marx coupling...
There are other (non-commercial) recordings too:
Gary Graffman/New York PO/Zubin Mehta (1985): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L0k0n-H2Vo
Artur Pizarro/Danish National SO/Andrew Manze (2014): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfelJcLYLuA
By the way, Steven de Groote's recording (cpo) appears to be well over five minutes longer than the other commercial recordings. Does this matter?
The de Groote recording was made following a concert in Berlin in 1983. I was at the concert with the composer's son George who told both de Groote and the conductor Gerd Albrecht that it was far too slow. Both would not be swayed and these slower tempi carried over to the Cpo recording conducted by Werner Andreas Albert a couple of years later.
The score is quite meticulous in its myriad instructions to the performers by Korngold (who did not trust conductors) and is like a road map of the Viennese 20th century style of that time. Korngold always preferred a forward, upbeat tempo. Taking a leisurely, more portentous approach and ignoring his markings saps the life from his music more than practically any other composer I know.
As a note for historians, the very first performance of this concerto in modern times (ie after Wittgenstein's death in 1961) was given in Vienna by Hans Kann in 1965. It was broadcast and I do have a tape of what was a very dull and lackustre perfromance.
For me, Gary Graffann's accounts (I have 3 separate performances on tape) have yet to be bettered.
Orion Weiss has a lot to live up to.....
That's very helpful - thank you. So, in effect, we should probably rule out de Groote when considering which version to buy.
How do the remaining versions (apart from the yet-to-be-released Weiss) stack up, in your view?
is Graffman the US premiere?
If you're referring to my YouTube link, then yes, it is.
The Shelley recording is somewhat lacklustre, not only because the soloist had injured his shoulder a week before recording and had not rehearsed enough - but because Bamert ( a difficult man to persuade) constantly slowed things down at the sectional transitions, thereby making the concerto very episodic.
The Stavy recording is marred by the very poor and muddy sound quality, especially for the orchestra. One of the glories of this work is the extraordinarily iridescent orchestration and some very unusual instrumental combinations and effects. Most of that is lost here. It is a little more faithful to the score as regards to tempi, dynamics and phrasing, but the soloist is not served well either, with many crucial details lost, especially in the lower register.
Which leaves us with Hamelin and Vanska. This is still the best respresentation of the concerto on a commercial recording - the best recorded, with some very fine orchestral playing and of course, Hamelin who is fearless in facing the technical challenges. He comes closest to obeying Korngold's markings, especially the frequent changes of metre (sometimes even mid bar) which make this work such a demanding roller-coaster ride. Vanska gives him his head and the results are exciting.
I wish Graffmann had made a commercial disc. Whenever I asked him about it, he demurred saying he needed to play it more in concert before he felt confident enough to commit himself. Now, he is 93 and apparently not in the best of health. He was due to give the Japanese premiere of the concerto in 2016 but had to cancel at the last minute. I doubt he will play it again and a CD is probably out of the question. A pity, because he really understands the piece better than anyone and even consulted the original manuscript in the Library of Congress to correct some errors in the printed score.
Thanks for this detailed analysis, which is very helpful for non-expert listeners such as myself. I bought the Hamelin CD partly because of the Marx coupling, although some commentators have preferred David Lively's recording of the latter. However, it seems that, as far as the Korngold is concerned, Hamelin is king of the hill.
Alan, I belong to the crowd that prefers Lively's Marx purely for the unhurried interpretation. However you are right as far as Korngold is concerned; Hemalin is the best version available so far. Also (since I've just read all the posts here) I know this is a closed chapter but I'd like to apologize to @brendangcarroll since it was a small query from my end in response to his post that seems to have started about 3 pages of spirited discussion/debate. It was never my intention to criticize his choice and obvious love for this work, I was just wondering mainly about the coupling of works on the disc. I would have thought that the Korngold PC would have gone well with something like Bowen's 4th PC or something from that sound world, but then again the market is full of oddly matched repertoire
On a different note, Jorge Bolet's live performance recording of Marx's 1st is amazing; pity he never made a studio recording of it.
Don't worry. Actually, the thread's turned out to be very enlightening.
@FBerwald: no apology necessary. I have much enjoyed writing about this work. In fact I am currently writing a detailed analysis of the Korngold for a planned book on left hand repertoire.
I do not know David Lively's recording of the Marx (but I do have a TV broadcast of him doing the Korngold!) I must look it out. Thank you.
I love the Marx - it's an amazing score with about a million notes. The score is extraordinary. One day, I hope someone records the original Two Piano version!
Quote from: brendangcarroll on Wednesday 10 February 2021, 19:34
I love the Marx - it's an amazing score with about a million notes. The score is extraordinary. One day, I hope someone records the original Two Piano version!
We're getting a bit off-topic here, but that sounds intriguing – do you mean a two-piano version, i.e. 2d piano as orchestra replacement, or two pianos+orchestra?
I'm sure this'll be a 2-piano arrangement. 2 pianos plus orchestra would have to be a new composition, surely?
Quote from: Alan Howe on Thursday 11 February 2021, 10:07
I'm sure this'll be a 2-piano arrangement. 2 pianos plus orchestra would have to be a new composition, surely?
Obviously it means the former, but I have seen a couple cases of a two piano & orchestra version of a piece and orchestra piece (that being at the least a version of Rhapsody in Blue, though it was a modern-ish arrangement)
IMSLP lists Gershwin's concerto in F arranged for 2 pianos and orchestra, yes.
And earlier on, Mozart had a concerto that could be played by 2 or 3 keyboards and orchestra.
According to Wikipedia, Op.88a (two-piano concerto) by Bruch is -not- related to Op.88 (clarinet & viola concerto), contrary to what I and many people thought.
Sorry for not being clear. The 2 piano version of the Marx is the same work but not with orch. I have never seen the score of this early version which is how the work was originally premiered! Marx orchestrated it later.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0581/3921/products/9547_traycard_rgb_3000_large.jpg?v=1610567861)
This, to my knowledge is a new recording I received from Naxos. Sorry for the size but I was not able to change.
No problem, Tom. I found another, smaller image.
Ah, I'd forgotten that the Chopin Op.2 was in question, not one of his piano concertos.
I understand. I thought the other thread was discussing the Korngold, sorry
No problem, Tom. It was an outgrowth of this thread.