Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Justin on Saturday 06 February 2021, 23:24

Title: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Justin on Saturday 06 February 2021, 23:24
Britishcomposer uploaded a German recording of this work about 10 years ago, but I wanted to point to an out-of-print live Dutch recording from 1998.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goh3eGiTcIc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goh3eGiTcIc)

Mengelberg was a great admirer of Rembrandt, as was his role model Gustav Mahler, whose influence is clearly heard in this piece.

The work is programmatic in a sense, where the music covers 19 different sketches by Rembrandt, some of which are famous in their oil painting styles. Mengelberg intended for live performances of this work to include a screen that showed each drawing as it corresponded to a particular point in the orchestration.

A list of the sketches with timestamps:

1. [0:00] Introduction
2. [2:10] Abraham entertaining the angel (and the three holy men ) (1656)
3. [2:38] Abraham's sacrifice (1655)
4. [3:13] The triumph of Mordechai (c. 1641)
5. [3:56] Peter and John at the Gate of the Temple (c. 1629)
6. [4:35] The blindness of Tobit (c. 1629)
7. [5:47] David at prayer (1652)
8. [6:51] Simeon's Hymn of Praise (1630)
9. [7:10] Christ Disputing with the Doctors (1630)
10. [7:50] Christ Preaching (c. 1643)
11. [8:44] Christ and the Woman of Samaria (1658)
12. [9:12] The Agony in the Garden (c.1657)
13. [10:01] The Raising of Lazarus (c. 1632)
14. [10:40] Christ Presented to the People (1655)
15. [11:57] Christ at Emmaus (1654)
16. [12:54] The Three Crosses (1653)
17. [15:09] The Descent from the Cross by Torchlight (1633)
18. [16:15] The Return of the Prodigal Son (1636)
19. [16:58] Christ Healing the Sick (c. 1649)
20. [17:08] The Death of the Virgin (1639)

Also, here is the recording that Britishcomposer shared, with the slideshow of drawings as Mengelberg intended: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF_BerImbkI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF_BerImbkI)
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 06 February 2021, 23:32
Now that's what I call unsung music - thanks!
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Ilja on Monday 08 February 2021, 13:20
A bit of background here. After the split with Belgium in 1830-1, the Netherlands were suddenly without their "national" painter Peter Paul Rubens, since he was Flemish. In the search for a suitable replacement, they ended up with Rembrandt, who wasn't even particularly famous at the time. But he was versatile and "serious" (contrary to better-known 17th-century painters like Hals and Steen), had an oeuvre with a lot of biblical depictions. But most importantly, his use of clair-obscur fitted in very well with the aestehtic sensibilities of the age. And since this was also the time when national canons were formed, he became the Dutch national painter.


The largest Rembrandt manifestation took place in 1906, at the tercentennial of his birth. The Museumplein (the square between the Rijksmuseum and Concertgebouw) in Amsterdam was used for a huge Rembrandt event, and multiple artworks were dedicated to him. These include no fewer than four musical works (perhaps more): Bernard Zweers' Saskia overture (named after Rembrandt's wife and introduction to a projected opera), Alphons Diepenbrock's Hymn to Rembrandt Cantata, Kees Dopper's Third Symphony (originally composed 1892, but revised and retrofitted as the "Rembrandt Symphony") - and of course Mengelberg's Etchings.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 08 February 2021, 13:43
Fascinating. Thanks Ilja.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Ilja on Monday 08 February 2021, 14:59
By the way, from what I've read there have always been suggestions that Mengelberg was only a minor author of this work. Suggested collaborators include (his second-in-command) Kees Dopper, Alphons Diepenbrock, and even Gustav Mahler! We know that Diepenbrock, Mahler and Mengelberg met in 1906 in Laren (see the photograph here (https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2021/01/13/luister-toch-naar-diepenbrock-a4027344)), so it would certainly be possible (and some parts, e.g. the "The Return of the Prodigal Son" section, sound positively Mahlerian) that this was a collective effort between them.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Justin on Monday 08 February 2021, 16:01
I have read close to the opposite. Mahler requested to see a score of the work, and Mengelberg ceased composing because he couldn't find an original voice. But who knows which is true.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 08 February 2021, 16:15
btw Mengelberg's other works listed on Donemus' "Webshop", if no one has mentioned, include a Solemn (Feierlich) Mass from 1895, a Sinfonietta for Strings from 1888, and a miscellaneous collection of songs composed between 1888 and 1941 apparently (mostly composed before 1900- all except one, in fact, "Chasa Glockenliedchen" from 1941). A cantata for the Queen's 40th anniversary of her Reign in 1938 is mentioned in Donemus' biography, so he did not -wholly- cease composing. One can download a sample PDF for free of the Etching Improvisations from the webshop and purchase the whole thing therefrom for - less free (https://webshop.donemus.com/action/front/sheetmusic/10195). (I assume "Improvisationen über eine Original-Melodie zu Radierungen von Rembrandt" is the same work.)
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Ilja on Monday 08 February 2021, 16:36
Eric, yeah, that's the same thing.


I was careful in reproducing this bit of gossip, which I caught years ago when discussing Mengelberg with an older Dutch composer while at Donemus. It's feasible, but so is Justin's version. Still, the suggestion that this materialized in a period where Mengelberg was in close contact with both Mahler and Diepenbrock is certainly plausible. Dopper seems a less likely candidate - the piece doesn't sound Dopperian at all.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Mark Thomas on Monday 08 February 2021, 16:50
QuoteDiepenbrock, Mahler and Mengelberg met in 1906 in Laren
Great photo! I don't know why, and apologies for the digression, but I was surprised to see that Mahler was quite short - as confirmed by this discussion here (http://gustavmahlerboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=1312.0).
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 08 February 2021, 18:10
Ilja - sorry!
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Justin on Tuesday 09 February 2021, 00:14
Quote from: eschiss1 on Monday 08 February 2021, 16:15
A cantata for the Queen's 40th anniversary of her Reign in 1938 is mentioned in Donemus' biography, so he did not -wholly- cease composing.

Thanks for finding that, Eric. I was finding it a bit difficult to believe that Mengelberg would completely give up because there was influence in his works.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Ilja on Wednesday 10 February 2021, 10:47
Hi Eric, no apology necessary!


I have my doubts about the piece for Queen Wilhelmina's 40-year anniversary (not of her reign, which formally started in 1890, but of her reaching maturity in 1898), as I rather suspect this was composed by Mengelberg's nephew Rudolf. They're often confused, and Rudolf churned out cantatas on a somewhat regular basis; there's also his "Hymn to Amsterdam" of 1934, among others, a widely celebrated piece at the time.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: eschiss1 on Wednesday 10 February 2021, 11:12
Good point.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: M. Yaskovsky on Thursday 11 February 2021, 09:35
There's a 1998 recording on cd of Mengelberg's opus. Jaap van Zweden conducting the Orkest van het Oosten on the TNS records label (unknown to me): TNSO 198, coupled with Mussorgsky's Pictures orchestrated by Ravel. https://www.muziekweb.nl/Link/AFX4266/Etsen-van-Rembrandt
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 11 February 2021, 10:05
...probably no longer available, though. I can't locate the CD, or even the label (TNS Records).
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Wheesht on Thursday 11 February 2021, 11:48
It may be possible to get it from this site (https://www.boekwinkeltjes.nl/b/192930314/Etsen-van-RembrandtAll-the-Etchings/).

There is also this (http://www.attaccaproductions.com/product/willem-mengelberg-selected-compositions-2018-158/) set of selected compositions from 2018. The Sketches in this set were recorded in 1994 by the Radio Symphony Orchestra under Kenneth Montgomery. A review in Dutch is available on opusklassiek.nl (https://www.opusklassiek.nl/cd-recensies/cd-sr/srmengelberg01.htm).
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Ilja on Thursday 11 February 2021, 12:43
Last year, Donemus published a recording of Mengelberg's Sinfonietta played by the Ciconia Consort conducted by Dick van Gasteren. It is on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/album/3dz3UffE9R5jBNCXyqhLZD?si=brcFstf0Si2v59XTDi6Rgw), too.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 11 February 2021, 13:01
QuoteIt may be possible to get it from this site

Thanks - but there seems to be no credit card payment facility...
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Justin on Thursday 11 February 2021, 13:38
Quote from: M. Yaskovsky on Thursday 11 February 2021, 09:35
There's a 1998 recording on cd of Mengelberg's opus. Jaap van Zweden conducting the Orkest van het Oosten on the TNS records label (unknown to me):

That is the same recording as the YouTube link I shared.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 11 February 2021, 14:29
It'd be good to be able to purchase the commercial recording, though.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Wheesht on Friday 12 February 2021, 12:35
The 2018 set is a commercial recording - perhaps an alternative to the elusive CD on the TNS label?
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 12 February 2021, 12:40
Yes, indeed - but how do I actually purchase a copy?
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Wheesht on Friday 12 February 2021, 13:13
Well, I've just ordered a copy from the Attaca Productions website (http://www.attaccaproductions.com/url), and unless I did something wrong there is a flat rate  of 5 Euros for postage, which seems reasonable. I did feel odd to be ordering from a site that claims to publish 'a broader selection of the world's avantgarde'.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 12 February 2021, 14:32
This is 3-CD plus 2-DVD set! Contents:

CD 1 Songs, Barcarolle for Piano and Choral Music
Renate Arends Soprano
Geert Berghs Tenor
Jacob Bogaart Piano
Project Chamber Choir Willem Mengelberg
Geert van den Dungen conductor

CD 2 Orchestral Music
- Sinfonietta für Streichorchester
- Preludium over 'Het Oude Wilhelmus'
- Musik zu Radierungen von Rembrandt
Radio Symfonie Orkest
Kenneth Montgomery conductor

CD 3 Feierliche Messe
for Soloists, Choir, Organ and Orchestra
Lucy de Butts soprano
Michaela Unsinn alto
Zacharie Fogal tenor
Gerhard Nennemann bass
Wolfgang Sieber organ
Ensemble Corund
Luzerner Sinfonieorchester
Stephen Smith Conductor

DVD 1 Feierliche Messe
for Soloists, Choir, Organ and Orchestra
This DVD is the video version of CD 3 in surround sound

DVD 2 Zuort and Chasa Mengelberg
This DVD shows Chasa Mengelberg and Hof Zuort in Switzerland and tells the story of the chalet, the farm house and its famous owner, Willem Mengelberg.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Wheesht on Friday 12 February 2021, 14:44
Indeed, and at 22.31 Euros (presumably without VAT) it's good value, methinks.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 12 February 2021, 14:44
Thanks! I've ordered it!
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Justin on Friday 12 February 2021, 19:03
Ordered it as well. Hope that the documentary about Chasa Mengelberg is in English or at least has subtitles. Otherwise I will have to hire Ilja for the hour.  ;D
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 18 February 2021, 12:44
Well, that explains the title of his late song (Chasa Glockenliedchen), anyway, or sort of does.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Justin on Thursday 18 February 2021, 18:49
Quote from: Alan Howe on Thursday 11 February 2021, 14:29
It'd be good to be able to purchase the commercial recording, though.

Which version do you prefer, Alan?
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 18 February 2021, 20:13
I'm still waiting for my order to turn up.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Wheesht on Wednesday 24 February 2021, 20:16
Mine arrived yesterday.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 24 February 2021, 21:22
Mine arrived today. I haven't listened to anything yet.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 25 February 2021, 17:02
I'm afraid that, for all its sound and fury (and there's an awful lot of that), Mengelberg's Music to Etchings by Rembrandt is a pretty dreary piece, rescued only by the section approx 4 mins. from the end which sounds like a direct crib from Mahler 1. Not a work I'll be returning to, except to check whether it was really as bad as I thought it was.

Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 25 February 2021, 17:09
The Feierliche Messe (Solemn Mass) of 1895, on the other hand, is a much more grateful work, written in what is clearly a more traditional style. More when I've got the measure of it...
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Justin on Tuesday 02 March 2021, 03:25
Kenneth Montgomery's recording of the Rembrandt piece is a little too fast overall for my liking, although he takes the "Mahler" section at a perfect tempo.

For those who may purchase this 3 CD/2 DVD set, the documentary about his home is available in German, Dutch and English audio. It runs about 25 minutes. I haven't watched it yet.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 02 March 2021, 10:35
QuoteKenneth Montgomery's recording of the Rembrandt piece is a little too fast overall for my liking, although he takes the "Mahler" section at a perfect tempo.

I'm no expert. I just thought it was a very dull piece - until the Mahler episode came along.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Justin on Tuesday 02 March 2021, 16:21
Quote from: Alan Howe on Tuesday 02 March 2021, 10:35
I'm no expert. I just thought it was a very dull piece - until the Mahler episode came along.

Me neither, and it certainly isn't a masterpiece (I wouldn't go that far). I just happen to like it a bit more than you.

The Sinfonietta was written 15 years earlier and it seems underdeveloped.
Title: Re: Willem Mengelberg - Etchings by Rembrandt
Post by: Justin on Wednesday 10 March 2021, 03:56
Quote from: Alan Howe on Thursday 25 February 2021, 17:09
The Feierliche Messe (Solemn Mass) of 1895, on the other hand, is a much more grateful work, written in what is clearly a more traditional style.

Absolutely. Particularly the Kyrie, which is majestic to say the least. Here it is, as uploaded by the performers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW1YWw3p50o
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW1YWw3p50o)
It's a shame he didn't compose more like this.