Quote from: Christopher on Wednesday 18 November 2020, 15:25Catoire wrote just one other orchestral work ("Mtsyri" symphonic poem"). It's probably the completist in me, but wouldn't those involved in both PC recordings be curious enough to record it too? (Admittedly I say this with no idea of how recording companies and orchestras work, so pace all!) Or maybe they did and it will one day appear on a separate CD. Or maybe they looked at it and it's a dreadful piece!
Well - as if by magic:
MTSYRI:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4HKnpx8tPw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4HKnpx8tPw) - fragment 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HSspscHCFc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HSspscHCFc) - fragment 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thVSifRKG3Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thVSifRKG3Q) - fragment 3
I think there are more fragments: it was recorded by Radio Orpheus in Moscow as part of a concert, and seems to have been split up over the course of the concert, which was also interspersed with readings. Hence the fragmentation. I haven't listened through the whole concert to ascertain how may fragments there are yet.
This is the concert - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TAv43-wsbo%5Cu0026feature%3Dyoutu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TAv43-wsbo%5Cu0026feature%3Dyoutu.be)
In an interview with the conductor Sergei Kondrashev - here - https://orpheusradio.ru/news/discussions/3642/sergey-kondrashev-muzyka-katuara-greet-dushu (https://orpheusradio.ru/news/discussions/3642/sergey-kondrashev-muzyka-katuara-greet-dushu) - he says they have also recorded "Rusalka". I will research that.
An attractive piece, what there is of it in these fragments. Reminiscent of late Rimsky-Korsakov, I thought, which I suppose needn't surprise given the 1899 composition date. I can't find out anything about the structure of the piece (whether the fragments are free-standing movements of a multi-movement piece, for example), its length, or indeed anything else, which might give clue about whether piecing together these three fragments, plus any more dotted about YouTube, would result in a complete work.
In the interview I mentioned (which is in Russian), the conductor (Kondrashev) says the intention is to put the recordings of Mtsyri and Rusalka out on a CD. However, in the Russian context, it's anyone's guess whether or when this will actually happen, unfortunately.
Quote from: Christopher on Tuesday 02 February 2021, 12:38This is the concert - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TAv43-wsbo%5Cu0026feature%3Dyoutu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TAv43-wsbo%5Cu0026feature%3Dyoutu.be)
Wondering if someone can help me out - the final moment of the concert in this youtube link includes a 90-second excerpt of music which certainly sounds like a Tchaikovsky-ending, but I just can't identify it. Can anyone identify it? It starts at 1:01:35....
Has it got anything to do with Catoire, though? If anyone can help, fine - let's hope so. But if not, let's keep to the topic, please.
That's actually what I'm trying to figure Alan. If it's not what I think it is and no one can identify it, maybe it's actually a part of Mtsyri. I should have been more explicit about that, sorry.
After the last reading the closing music is the final bars of Tchaikowsky's Pique Dame. There are also other Tchaikowsky excerpts - from Francesca da Rimini as well as another piece from Pique Dame. There is also a Gavotte by Mosolov and the tone poem Salome by Golanov. I can only find three fragments of Catoire's Mtsyri. At 13 minutes in total the fragments could make up the complete tone poem even though it ends pretty abrupty.
Well figured out! Thanks!
Not sure where a score of Mtsyri even is. The symphony (https://search.rsl.ru/ru/record/01001930257) at least is at Russian State Library - 213 pp.
Ah. "Conductor Sergei Kondrashev said (in August 2020) in an interview here - https://orpheusradio.ru/news/discussions/3642/sergey-kondrashev-muzyka-katuara-greet-dushu - that he recorded the symphonic poem "Mtsyri" and the cantata "Rusalka" by Georgy Catuar (1861-1926 ). He recorded these with the Orpheus Radio Symphony Orchestra. He also said:
"I really hope that before the New Year we will be able to release an album" (on
CD)."
This from a page on intoclassics; translated into English. Might be the same words as from the Youtube video...
Quote from: eschiss1 on Friday 12 February 2021, 02:34Ah. "Conductor Sergei Kondrashev said (in August 2020) in an interview here - https://orpheusradio.ru/news/discussions/3642/sergey-kondrashev-muzyka-katuara-greet-dushu - that he recorded the symphonic poem "Mtsyri" and the cantata "Rusalka" by Georgy Catuar (1861-1926 ). He recorded these with the Orpheus Radio Symphony Orchestra. He also said:
"I really hope that before the New Year we will be able to release an album" (on
CD)."
This from a page on intoclassics; translated into English. Might be the same words as from the Youtube video...
Also in my post just a few centimetres above this one, but hey....! The intoclassics page (http://www.intoclassics.net/forum/4-6032-1) was also written by me, as well as the youtube comment! Good to know these are being seen...
Quote from: eschiss1 on Friday 12 February 2021, 02:34Not sure where a score of Mtsyri even is. The symphony (https://search.rsl.ru/ru/record/01001930257) at least is at Russian State Library - 213 pp.
Radio Orpheus (Russia's state classical music radio) must have its own repository of scores - these articles describe how it is engaged in a project to revive forgotten Russian music:
https://www.icma-info.com/radio-orpheus-to-revive-the-heritage-of-russian-composers/ (https://www.icma-info.com/radio-orpheus-to-revive-the-heritage-of-russian-composers/)
https://www.pizzicato.lu/russian-radio-orpheus-engages-in-the-revival-of-musical-heritage/ (https://www.pizzicato.lu/russian-radio-orpheus-engages-in-the-revival-of-musical-heritage/)
It seems to have two websites: http://www.muzcentrum.ru/eng/aboutus (http://www.muzcentrum.ru/eng/aboutus) and https://orpheusradio.ru/ (https://orpheusradio.ru/)
This is the page about their library - http://www.muzcentrum.ru/eng/musiclibrary (http://www.muzcentrum.ru/eng/musiclibrary)
Just came across the original Orpheus orchestra recording of this work (not the YOUTUBE pastiche) - https://orchestra.orpheusradio.ru/audio/en - not aware it has any missing pieces as it seems to be a straight, uninteruppted run-through (unless I missed the glitches while I was briefly away from the PC).
Can't recall his symphony and PC (from when I first heard thse works a few years ago) but my impression is this work - Mtsyri - is nowhere near as attractive, seemingly quite repetitive, none too melodic and overly long (IMHO). Anyway, for any fans looking for a complete performance, hopefully this is it!
Bon voyage
Richard
Thanks for the link Richard. At 24 minutes Mtsyri is no doubt too long, which does lead to repetition of material and mood, but to me it's an attractive work very much in the Rimsky tradition. It's colourfully, if rather heavily, orchestrated and I think it's stronger thematically than several of Catoire's works I've heard, although that's very much down to the individual I know. The performance itself is a persuasive one and, for an internet stream, well recorded.
Good evening everyone, I hope it's not too late to add to this post (almost 2 years after the last comment), but I have something I think relates to the post.
I found a copyist's manuscript of the 2-piano arrangement of Georgy Catoire's Symphonic Poem "Mtsyri", Op. 13: https://glinka-iss.kamiscloud.ru/entity/OBJECT/75373?query=%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%83%D0%B0%D1%80&index=7. The score comes from the online archive of the Glinka Museum in Moscow (aka the Russian State Museum of Music named after Glinka), which has a lot of great manuscripts, including those by Rachmaninoff (though most of those are hidden). I figured I'd leave a comment with the score since I saw user eschiss1 mentioned how the scores location is mysterious:
Quote from: eschiss1 on Friday 12 February 2021, 02:34Not sure where a score of Mtsyri even is. The symphony (https://search.rsl.ru/ru/record/01001930257) at least is at Russian State Library - 213 pp.
I might make a new post with some of the manuscripts I've saved in an account on that archive, if it's all right with the admins. Anyways, Happy New Year everyone!
Interesting news, and welcome Theodore.
Quote from: Theodore S. on Sunday 07 January 2024, 06:35Good evening everyone, I hope it's not too late to add to this post (almost 2 years after the last comment), but I have something I think relates to the post.
I found a copyist's manuscript of the 2-piano arrangement of Georgy Catoire's Symphonic Poem "Mtsyri", Op. 13: https://glinka-iss.kamiscloud.ru/entity/OBJECT/75373?query=%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%83%D0%B0%D1%80&index=7. The score comes from the online archive of the Glinka Museum in Moscow (aka the Russian State Museum of Music named after Glinka), which has a lot of great manuscripts, including those by Rachmaninoff (though most of those are hidden). I figured I'd leave a comment with the score since I saw user eschiss1 mentioned how the scores location is mysterious:
Quote from: eschiss1 on Friday 12 February 2021, 02:34Not sure where a score of Mtsyri even is. The symphony (https://search.rsl.ru/ru/record/01001930257) at least is at Russian State Library - 213 pp.
I might make a new post with some of the manuscripts I've saved in an account on that archive, if it's all right with the admins. Anyways, Happy New Year everyone!
Thank you Theodore and welcome! Kondrashev and the Radio Orfei Orchestra also recorded Catoire's cantata "Rusalka" at the same time. Unfortunately, though, it seems that it hasn't been released. Might you have any idea of how to obtain it?!
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Sunday 07 January 2024, 07:23Interesting news, and welcome Theodore.
Quote from: Christopher on Sunday 07 January 2024, 23:29Thank you Theodore and welcome! Kondrashev and the Radio Orfei Orchestra also recorded Catoire's cantata "Rusalka" at the same time. Unfortunately, though, it seems that it hasn't been released. Might you have any idea of how to obtain it?!
Thank you both for your warm welcoming! Unfortunately, I don't currently know where to find a recording of Catoire's cantata "Rusalka"; the only piece by Catoire with "rusalka" in the name that seems to have been recorded so far (online anyway) is the song "Pesna Rusalki" for voice and piano. Actually, until yesterday, I wasn't even aware that the symphonic poem "Mtsyri" had a complete recording, though I'm glad one has been made and located (if only I could download it, though...). Perhaps the best thing is to keep an eye on Kondrashev and the Radio Orfei orchestra like before, they still might make the recording after all. But who knows, it's possible there is a Soviet vinyl with the cantata recorded on it, though I'm not aware of its existence...
Thanks!! Well, until a score turns up, a reduction is far better than the nothing I knew of, and might point to the location of a score if one still exists. (Not that I even have access to a performing ensemble if one does- I'm just curious, unfortunately- though hopefully someone reading this would be interested enough and able to organize a performance if they were intrigued enough.)
Quote from: Theodore S. on Monday 08 January 2024, 00:05Quote from: Mark Thomas on Sunday 07 January 2024, 07:23Interesting news, and welcome Theodore.
Quote from: Christopher on Sunday 07 January 2024, 23:29Thank you Theodore and welcome! Kondrashev and the Radio Orfei Orchestra also recorded Catoire's cantata "Rusalka" at the same time. Unfortunately, though, it seems that it hasn't been released. Might you have any idea of how to obtain it?!
Thank you both for your warm welcoming! Unfortunately, I don't currently know where to find a recording of Catoire's cantata "Rusalka"; the only piece by Catoire with "rusalka" in the name that seems to have been recorded so far (online anyway) is the song "Pesna Rusalki" for voice and piano. Actually, until yesterday, I wasn't even aware that the symphonic poem "Mtsyri" had a complete recording, though I'm glad one has been made and located (if only I could download it, though...). Perhaps the best thing is to keep an eye on Kondrashev and the Radio Orfei orchestra like before, they still might make the recording after all. But who knows, it's possible there is a Soviet vinyl with the cantata recorded on it, though I'm not aware of its existence...
Hi Theodore - I could have sworn I had previously put the recording of Mtsyri in our downloads section. But it seems I hadn't, anyway it's there now. Enjoy!
Re Rusalka - yes the song for voice and piano that you mention is a different work of about 3 minutes in duration, and available on youtube with at least 2 recordings - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TYuWc-5YJQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TYuWc-5YJQ) and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLKYLCUlTVQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLKYLCUlTVQ) - whereas the cantata is for women's chorus and full orchestra and presumably rather longer. I'd love to get that 2020 Kondrashev recording!
Quote from: Christopher on Monday 08 January 2024, 13:56Catoire, Georgy Lvovich (1861-1926)
Mtsyri - symphonic poem after Lermontov
Orpheus Radio Symphony Orchestra,
Sergei Kondrashev
rec 2020
As streamed on https://orchestra.orpheusradio.ru/audio/en (https://orchestra.orpheusradio.ru/audio/en)
https://www.mediafire.com/file/76zqht24inf7k8r/Symphonic_poem_Mtsyri_-_complete.mp3/file (https://www.mediafire.com/file/76zqht24inf7k8r/Symphonic_poem_Mtsyri_-_complete.mp3/file)
Thank you so much for doing this, I really appreciate it! "Mtsyri" is a great piece, I hope eventually it will be come more well-known.
It seems we have finally reached the conclusion of the search for Catoire's cantata "Rusalka", and by extension the search for the album in which it is included, along with the Symphony in C minor and the symphonic poem "Mtsyri". The much-discussed album (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_miaYN8dK_0cY90rMAuDR_EcBMdG58KmcU) was released in March of this year, performed by Sergei Kondrashev and the Orpheus Radio Symphony Orchestra, along with the Grand Choir Masters of Choral Singing and Anastasia Alyabyeva as a vocal soloist.
EDIT: Perhaps this comment should be its own post? Just because a lot of posts here in the "recordings & broadcasts" portion of the forum are about specific releases of new CDs and albums, and this is a new release of an album (I don't say CD because I can't find a CD version of this available atm).
Quote from: Theodore S. on Friday 06 September 2024, 03:25It seems we have finally reached the conclusion of the search for Catoire's cantata "Rusalka", and by extension the search for the album in which it is included, along with the Symphony in C minor and the symphonic poem "Mtsyri". The much-discussed album (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_miaYN8dK_0cY90rMAuDR_EcBMdG58KmcU) was released in March of this year, performed by Sergei Kondrashev and the Orpheus Radio Symphony Orchestra, along with the Grand Choir Masters of Choral Singing and Anastasia Alyabyeva as a vocal soloist.
EDIT: Perhaps this comment should be its own post? Just because a lot of posts here in the "recordings & broadcasts" portion of the forum are about specific releases of new CDs and albums, and this is a new release of an album (I don't say CD because I can't find a CD version of this available atm).
Thanks for this Theodore, this is a great spot! I doubt there will be a physical CD - with the various sanctions regimes against Russia, shipping items to and from there is going to be even more unreliable than it was previously, so they probably opted for the streaming model only.