Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Friday 12 February 2021, 10:59

Title: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 12 February 2021, 10:59
...forthcoming from cpo:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/anton-rubinstein-klavierkonzerte-nr-2-4/hnum/9735537
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 12 February 2021, 11:53
Most welcome. Dare we hope for recordings of the other three concertos? It would be especially good to finally have a recording of No.5 which realises its potential, and I could at last retire Adrian Ruiz's ex-LP recording for Genesis, in which he is rather let down by a lacklustre orchestral contribution.
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 12 February 2021, 12:15
I agree entirely, Mark. A really top notch performance of the 5th would be hugely welcome.
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Christopher on Friday 12 February 2021, 12:22
Quote from: Mark Thomas on Friday 12 February 2021, 11:53
Most welcome. Dare we hope for recordings of the other three concertos?

And indeed for more recordings of all his works eh Alan?  ;D
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 12 February 2021, 12:27
Oh, absolutely. I wish the symphonies could be re-done by better orchestras and conductors, for example.
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: eschiss1 on Friday 12 February 2021, 19:43
MDG did release a 2-CD set of his orchestral music (various works including (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/8313299--anton-rubinstein-orchestral-works) symphony 2, the A minor cello concerto, Don Quixote, an overture and this that...)  3-odd years ago. No idea if that was intended to launch a series, but if so, the continuation would probably be delayed.

(Ah, the 2-CD set listed at Presto Classical combines a "Vol. 1" and a "Vol. 2" separately released by them earlier, reviewed so by Musicweb.) (There's also a more recent? - 2019-published? - recording of piano concertos 3 & 5 conducted by Neeme Jarvi on Sorel Classics, Anna Shelest, piano, which is part of a series by them- preceded by concerto no.4 and Caprice russe. Anotther Rubinstein piano concerto series from the 2010s that seems to have been mostly complete was on Centaur.)
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: dhibbard on Saturday 13 February 2021, 02:45
I love my Marco Polo recordings of those..
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 13 February 2021, 11:14
Yes, I like them too. Excellent pianist - the (now) veteran, Joseph Banowetz.
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: MartinH on Saturday 13 February 2021, 15:15
Good news - I like the Banowetz recordings, too, but new ones are always welcome. Now if pianists would enliven the repertoire and start putting these back in live concerts!
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Mark Thomas on Saturday 13 February 2021, 22:20
Yes, I have the Centaur recording but Zamparas is no Banowetz, never mind Ruiz. Every recording of this magnificent piece is flawed: either the soloist, conductor, orchestra or recording lets them down, which is why I hope that cpo may have found the right combination. Does anyone know anything about Schaghajegh Nosrati? According to cpo she has an "outstanding reputation as a Bach interpreter", which doesn't on the face of it seem to have much relevance to getting the best out of Rubinstein, but still....
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 13 February 2021, 22:53
Would her having recorded Alkan (concerto from op.39 and other works), as shows up on Google early on, point more in that direction? (She performed the Alkan concerto at Carnegie hall two months ago, also. Edit: I apparently cannot see the word "Cancelled" in front of my face.)
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 13 February 2021, 23:21
How about Schaghajegh Nosrati in Rachmaninov's Paganini Rhapsody?>>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocTaVFEirN0&t=1184s

Sounds pretty good to me...
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Mark Thomas on Sunday 14 February 2021, 08:49
Yes, I agree. Fingers crossed, then. Let's hear how PCs 2 and 4 come out.
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: 4candles on Sunday 14 February 2021, 11:20
Nosrati's Bach and Alkan recordings have both received excellent reviews and I can attest to the quality of the latter. She is a protege of both Rainer Maria Klaas (I think) and Andras Schiff, so her technique and musical pedigree have plenty of upside and potential. I think she will be more than up to the task. As ever, the results will come down to personal tastes.
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 01 March 2021, 20:25
This is a very beautiful recording of PC4. Does it lack elan? I did wonder about this, but the orchestral contribution is very fine, with plenty of heft when needed (to be honest, this is probably as good a rendering of the orchestral part as we have yet had). So, it remains to be seen what listeners think of the soloist's playing (no problem with her technique!) She's certainly not Hamelin in this music, but I wonder whether his performance is just too much of a good thing - not to mention simply too fast (e.g. in the finale).

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice...
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: John Boyer on Tuesday 21 February 2023, 02:18
Quote from: Alan Howe on Monday 01 March 2021, 20:25This is a very beautiful recording of PC4. Does it lack elan? I did wonder about this, but the orchestral contribution is very fine...

I agree, Alan.  You called it.  The orchestral sound is indeed vivid and detailed, but as a whole the performance lacks spirit.  It's curiously emotionless.  We've heard better.

I also took exception to two points of interpretation.  First, in the coda of the finale they play a little fast and loose with rubato, which does little to liven up what to that point has felt like a note-perfect but perfunctory run-through.  Second, I don't like the way the pianist voices the second half of the first theme of the first movement.  (As a side light, Barlow and Morgenstern, in their indispensable Dictionary of Musical Themes, label this "1st Theme B", and I've always wondered if the opening theme, labeled "1st Theme A", should be considered entirely separate.)  In the development section of the work, the violins and the piano engage in a dialogue, the violins playing what at first glance is a new theme, the piano answering with "1st Theme B".  You can see and hear this just after the 5:30 mark in this YouTube post of the Lewenthal/Carvalho recording:

Lewenthal/Carvalho recording of the Rubinstein 4th (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLpg39XnBaQ)

However, the violin part is not a new theme.  It's actually the counter-melody of 1st Theme B that plays in the bass when the theme was first introduced in the exposition.  Go to 1:49 of the above, and you'll see it in the bass and hear Lewenthal give it a good deal of prominence.  When 1st Theme B returns in the development, Rubinstein removes it from the bass.

In this latest CPO disc, the pianist treats that counter-melody strictly as a harmony part, reducing it to near inaudibility.  All attention is on the treble line.  The effect is that when we come to the violin/piano dialogue in the development, we lose the connection between the violin melody and the piano's response.  Rubinstein, in one of his cleverest passages, is breaking apart his material to show that the counter-melody, originally played simultaneously as counterpoint, can now stand independent of of its original purpose.  This emphasis, as I said, is missing in the new disc.

Alan's assessment is correct: beautifully recorded, but no elan.
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 21 February 2023, 16:41
Just shows: we really do need first-class performances of unsung music. How often do we have to accept second-best?
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Ilja on Thursday 23 February 2023, 10:38
Of course, a first-class (in terms of the class of performers) performance can still be unsatisfying. For instance, I don't think anyone can complain about the stature of the performers in Hyperion's Romantic Piano Concerto series, but it still had its duds. This is a similar case because having heard it I can only agree that it lacks the necessary urgency. This isn't necessarily deep music, but it should be played with energy and conviction. In that respect, the difference between Nosrati and Hamelin (in PC4) is night and day.
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 23 February 2023, 11:29
Agreed. We need first-class performances whoever the artists involved may be.
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 25 February 2023, 14:40
And the pieces, too! :)
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Saturday 25 February 2023, 14:44
I agree entirely with the criticisms of Nosrati's performance of PC4. However, by contrast I rather like her in PC2 - the tempi are brisker and lighter (the orchestral contribution is excellent) and the whole concerto seems to take on a new life, at least compared with the rather stodgy performance by Banowetz.
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: eschiss1 on Saturday 25 February 2023, 15:06
That said, I still remember when we weren't spoiled for choice in complete recordings of these concertos, even if of course it would be good to have a really excellent complete set. Not an expert though myself. (I've heard the piano sonatas he wrote more often than his concertos- and a "definitive" complete set of those would be nice, too, though the Hyperion one is very good.)
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: John Boyer on Saturday 25 February 2023, 15:09
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Saturday 25 February 2023, 14:44...However, by contrast I rather like her in PC2...the whole concerto seems to take on a new life...
Agreed.  I will never like the 2nd Concerto, but this is the most convincing performance of it that I have heard.  Credit, then, where credit is due.
Title: Re: Rubinstein Piano Concertos 2 & 4
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 25 February 2023, 21:06
I had a listen to Hamelin's recording of PC4 - great pianism, but I found the orchestral contribution somewhat lacking in glamour.