I really enjoyed this! Completely new to me
http://sdtom.wordpress.com/2010/12/15/rhapsody-on-ukrainian-themeslyapunov/
Thomas
Thomas, I appreciate the Rhapsody more than both PCs, but to be honest, none of the 3 works for piano and orchestra gets my applause.
Quote from: sdtom on Wednesday 15 December 2010, 19:57
I really enjoyed this! Completely new to me
http://sdtom.wordpress.com/2010/12/15/rhapsody-on-ukrainian-themeslyapunov/
Thomas
Nice review, but there are some emendations you could make:
1. Your review solely discusses the Rhapsody, but there are 3 works on the CD, and you never mention which one you're talking about at the outset, nor at any point in the review.
2. The first theme appears in English horn, not oboe. A technicality, but still, the timbre is unmistakable.
3. The PC 1 is in E-flat
minor, not Major.
Other than that, bravo!
Quote from: JimL on Wednesday 15 December 2010, 23:12
Quote from: sdtom on Wednesday 15 December 2010, 19:57
I really enjoyed this! Completely new to me
http://sdtom.wordpress.com/2010/12/15/rhapsody-on-ukrainian-themeslyapunov/
Thomas
Nice review, but there are some emendations you could make:
1. Your review solely discusses the Rhapsody, but there are 3 works on the CD, and you never mention which one you're talking about at the outset, nor at any point in the review.
2. The first theme appears in English horn, not oboe. A technicality, but still, the timbre is unmistakable.
3. The PC 1 is in E-flat minor, not Major.
Other than that, bravo!
I only wrote about the Rhapsody which was the title of the review so whatever I talked about was the Rhapsody. You're correct about the English Horn of course :-[ but I believe the Rhapsody starts out in E-Flat Minor which is what I was talking about.
Tom :)
Are we talking about http://imslp.org/wiki/Rhapsody_on_Ukrainian_Themes,_Op.28_%28Lyapunov,_Sergei%29 (http://imslp.org/wiki/Rhapsody_on_Ukrainian_Themes,_Op.28_%28Lyapunov,_Sergei%29) here? That opening looks like F-sharp minor to me (and the rhapsody op.28 - that is the work in question?... ends in F-sharp major) - the first piano concerto, I thought, was the E-flat minor work in question... but then I'm easily confused.
Eric
The Rhapsody is in F-sharp minor. The 1st Piano Concerto is in E-flat minor. The 2nd Piano Concerto is in E Major. In your listing of the works on the CD at the bottom of the review you have the 1st PC as being in E-flat Major. That's what I'm talking about.
SDTom likes the Rhapsody and is communicating that. :)That, to me, is the most important thing.Its got a distinct NAME, non-confusable with the PCs by dint of the NAME alone.Steve. PS I like it too :)
In the review I didn't talk about any key at all and Lyapunov didn't include one in the title. I'm easily confused so I meant to say F sharp minor. Steve is correct that I am communicating that I really like the work. Right now I'm not sure how I feel about the other 4 works I've heard from him in the last day.
Thomas :)
Is the Vox Box (2) CD set that contains the Rhapsody worth having? I've got both of the Naxos releases for now.
Thomas :)
Thomas, the VoxBox, including the Liapunov is DEFINITELY worth acquisition, for the fire of Ponti in Liapunov but also for the sensitivity AND nervile passion of His Medtner "Ballade "Concerto, and for the Goetz PC(though, as Jim will point out, this is cut in one movement, but it has LIFE). the first movement of the Balakirev PC is also quite exciting and passionate and the Sinding(Keller, this time )has its moments but not a patch on the VC for melodic memorability. The orchestras are variable, but keen and idiomatic(ie. match Messrs Ponti and Kellers' passion); acoustic a bit dry but very immediate for piano AND orchestra. The sadly missed Richard Kapp wrote on the previous incarnation of this forum of the woefully inadequate rehearsal time for these Ponti recordings(he quite often was the conductor). There is a supportive review on Music Web.And its very cheap!Steve
Quote from: sdtom on Thursday 16 December 2010, 15:50
In the review I didn't talk about any key at all and Lyapunov didn't include one in the title. I'm easily confused so I meant to say F sharp minor. Steve is correct that I am communicating that I really like the work. Right now I'm not sure how I feel about the other 4 works I've heard from him in the last day.
Thomas :)
Tom. On the bottom. After the word "Recommended". You list the works on the CD. #1 on the list is the first piano concerto. You wrote "in E flat major." It is in E-flat
minor. That's all I'm pointing out. Fix it if you want. Or not.
Enough, Jim.
Mark it is ok as far as Jim is concerned. I can always accept criticism and improve. The track listing was a cut and paste from the Naxos/Classiconline web site which I just changed. I know better than to just assume. Either way I like the work and am getting the Vox Box on the recommendation of Steve B. I'll look forward to hearing the difference as well as being introduced to some new works. Amazon had a copy for under $10
Thomas :)
Quote from: Peter1953 on Wednesday 15 December 2010, 21:42I appreciate the Rhapsody more than both PCs, but to be honest, none of the 3 works for piano and orchestra gets my applause.
Which just goes to show how tastes vary, as I adore Lyapunov, not just the rhapsody and concerti, but the symphonies and studies as well.
In contrast, Brian's violin concerto, which is praised in a nearby thread, does nothing for me at all, nor do I appreciate his symphonies.
My signature in my email use to be some music I just don't understand. I changed it to the Spencer quote because it is something I'm so guilty of.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation"
Herbert Spencer
That is also very appropriate for new listening material. I'm listening to Lyapunov's Symphony No. 1 now and trying to get a good feel for it.
Thomas :)
thomas, let me know what you think of the other stuff on the VoxBox(though don't expect miracles of current-day perfection from Vox east European orchestras!). Interested if you like my hero(Ponti's) style!
Take care. happy listening and keep up the reviews! Steve
Quote from: Steve B on Saturday 18 December 2010, 16:22
thomas, let me know what you think of the other stuff on the VoxBox(though don't expect miracles of current-day perfection from Vox east European orchestras!). Interested if you like my hero(Ponti's) style!
Take care. happy listening and keep up the reviews! Steve
Will do. Quite familiar with the Vox/Turnabout as I owned quite of few lp's from that time and some Ponti who I enjoyed.
tom :)
I collected Ponti recordings as well - as many as I could. He was one of the few actually playing these obscure concertos and, for the most part doing it very well. OK he was heavy on the barn-storming and pretty charmless but you couldn't deny the impact of the pieces when played to the hilt. Of course with each recording I bought I always hoped that the recorded sound would be better and I was always disappointed - they are just so bad.
It is Ponti's swash-buckling approach that I miss with Milne - his recording of the Liapunov Rhapsodie has many good points but the finale is so careful. I found the same with the Naxos Balakirev Concerti with Seifetdinova - poerty but for what are big-boned romantic pieces (especially the finale of the second) very low-key, understated pianism. Where is the Russian fire???
I am going to get the Naxos Liapunov just in case - they are so cheap after all.
Rob
hammyplay, we may have to agree to disagree here :)but Ponti can be anything but "charmless"; most of the slow movements of the Romantic concerti are played delicately and sensitively(and passionately!). Ok the speeds are spmetimes too fast but this maybe pressure from Vox for timings. The slow movement of the Scriabin PC is delicacy incarnate; and the orchestra actually plays well on that particular recording, the solo instruments interweaving with Ponti's delicate filigaree. Its nice you agree on his passionate barnstorming suiting these pieces :)
I DO recommend the Dante re-visits of these concerti, cos the orchestras are so much better; is a shame they are so elusive to find now. There seems to be a respectably large weight of opinion now that some of the Hyperion pianists are too sedate in these pieces. But I know we all have different tastes........ :)
Steve
I bought the Vox set Of Ponti playing the Scriabin sonata's from reading these kinds of comments. It's like with Glenn Gould's Bach,(going a bit off topic),some people don't like his eccentricities and humming,but other recordings seem a bit tame and predictable afterwards,even if the musianship is superior.
musicianship!
Quote from: Pengelli on Sunday 19 December 2010, 19:08
musicianship!
(?) "Intermission!" (apologies to Sondheim.)
Pengelli, not sure what you mean by "musicianship"; used usually in terms of interpretative practice(eg. amount of rubato, arpeggiation in Romantic period music; whether to play Bach on piano or not). But that changes so much with academic, ie musical academy, fashion: Reinecke(recorded on a piano roll, but you still get a clear enough picture)played Schumann with rubato "all over the place". Horovitz and Ponti and Paderewski(who wrote an excellent essay on the two types of rubato, available on the net)all bring these matters to a head. Of course, Ponti was what was considered "behind his time"; his Paderewskian flexibility of tempo(of the outside the barline division type) was more typical of pianism, particuarly in Romantic era pieces, prior to-what?-1930s. But as a player using heavy rubato, upto his last recording in 1997(Rach 3), he is seen as having less/inappropriate "musicianship"(in , I stress, SOME, quarters!:). Not getting at you, Pengelli:) But I think we have to look at how this phrase is historically shaped and determined. Cf. heavy vibrato in string playing; portamento in singing, all much decried now but fashionable and considered appropriate upto-what?-1930s. Just listen to the swooping-upto-note strings in Elgar conducting his own orchestral music!.
Then, I realise, a lot of it, at least, is personal taste; and whether one likes unfettered emotion, thinks added emotion suits the text; or whether there IS an ur-text. Some of my piano pupils have got fairly good marks for departing(eg in tempo/dynamics) from the text; others, with fashion-conscious, "by the book"(in my opinion) examiners have been undermarked for "inappropriate additions" to the "text". Anyway, I think i have made my point........ BUt I think, if we use words like "musicianship", we should think about what they means to US as INDIVIDUALS. This is just meant to be a stimulus for discussion, not an attack for using a casual word....:) Hope, you take it as such, Pengelli!. Steve
My copy of Romantic Piano Concerto Vol. 5 arrived yesterday in the mail which includes the Ponti recording of the Lyapunov work. In my opinion the Ponti playing is superior to the more conservative approach that Shorena took. Expecting the worst as far as the Westphalian Symphony was concerned I was surprised that they were adequate. The transfer/remastering wasn't the best, however. Overall this is a welcome addition to my collection of material.
Tom :)
Great, Tom; its exciting isnt it!?Hope u enjoy other pieces. Let me/us know what you think. Steve
As a result of this thread, I bought the cd of Lyapunov's 2 PCs and the Rhapsody. Personally, I too prefer the Rhapsody to the PCS but the whole CD makes for pleasant listening. I also have the Lyapunov symphonies, so I am familiar with his work. I must say though that the Rhapsody is a delightful work, in rondo form, with charming melodies and also a little bit of muscle. I like it a lot.
Cheers
Dennis
So out of curiousity, if price were irrelevant, which disc is better -- the Hyperion or the Naxos? They both have the same three pieces.
Quote from: Steve B on Sunday 19 December 2010, 16:03
hammyplay, we may have to agree to disagree here :)but Ponti can be anything but "charmless"; most of the slow movements of the Romantic concerti are played delicately and sensitively(and passionately!). Ok the speeds are spmetimes too fast but this maybe pressure from Vox for timings. The slow movement of the Scriabin PC is delicacy incarnate; and the orchestra actually plays well on that particular recording, the solo instruments interweaving with Ponti's delicate filigaree. Its nice you agree on his passionate barnstorming suiting these pieces :)
Actually listening to them again, maybe with the benefit of age(?) or experience(??). I do find that Ponti can be delicate. The slow movement of the Scharwenka 2 has always impressed me. I think I was coloured more by his ride-em-hard style in faster music. The final movement of the Scharwenka 2 loses a lot of its dance quality compared to Lewenthal who always finds grace even in the fastest sections, Ponti's Eugene Onegin paraphrase (Pabst) suffers greatly compared to the light and elegant touch of Ginsburg, and his Tausig Halka is technically great but very little in the way of piano colour (ok the recording is atrocious but I'm sure its not only that - for example Gunnar Johansen's Friedman recordings are in very bad sound but you can still hear his tone). I think I let these and other isolated examples of Ponti's playing colour all my listening - I did enjoy a lot of his playing and he certainly introduced us to a huge number of unknown pieces.
Rob