I hope the moderators won't mind if I give a shout-out to this very worthy website - https://ukrainianlive.org (https://ukrainianlive.org)
U-Live is a project aimed at recording for the first time the music of Ukrainian composers across the ages, as well as unearthing older recordings which have remained locked-up and out of reach.
Contrary to what many outside the country would have people believe, Ukraine has always had its own composers writing music across the full range of the classical spectrum, not just folksy operas of limited appeal. Their late romantic music, for example, easily holds its own against Russian/German/Polish etc composers of the same period and would be a revelation to the musical world. And yet they remain unknown. It's telling that a large number of them were repressed (ie murdered or imprisoned, and their scores burned) by the NKVD in the 1930s.
I understand that U-Live is driven by Collegium Musicum Lviv under the conductor Ivan Ostapovych and the poet Taras Demko (http://collegiummusicum.com.ua/ (http://collegiummusicum.com.ua/)), with whom I am in touch.
If you go to https://ukrainianlive.org/composers (https://ukrainianlive.org/composers) you will see the composers they have worked on (many many of which are from "our" preferred era, and the many recordings they have which you can listen to if you download the app.
But - they need financial support, and have a fundraising page where you can make one-off or regular donations. If 1,000 people gave $5 a month...etc (I'm one of them..). Please do consider it! https://www.patreon.com/UkrainianLiveClassic (https://www.patreon.com/UkrainianLiveClassic)
Works by the composers Kosenko, Barvinsky, Stepovy and Bortkiewicz are among the newly-discovered unsung works that members of this Forum have taken the trouble to say have given them much pleasure.
The current political situation and a possible invasion of the country by Russia gives an added poignancy to this request: if Ukraine should be turned into scorched earth, its cultural legacy risks being lost forever without projects such as these.
QuoteTheir late romantic music, for example, easily holds its own against Russian/German/Polish etc composers of the same period
I have yet to be convinced of this, but I'm willing to be persuaded. Perhaps you could name
the best five works by Ukrainian composers in this period, so that we can judge - in your opinion, of course.
It might be helpful to name major works, such as symphonies, concertos, sonatas, operas, etc. Thanks!
This is one work suggested at U-Live: Vladimir Sokalsky/Volodymyr Sokalskyi (1863-1919) - Symphony in G minor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USDGp5I2sAc
Thoughts, anyone?
Will do Alan. Am heading out for the evening out so will think on it. Kosenko, Bortkiewicz and Barvinsky are likely to feature. May I ask, what do you mean by "convinced of this"? Convinced of a crowdfunding programme, of the concept of Ukrainian classical music, of U-Live, or..? Also, the caveat that I am useless at describing at WHY I love a piece of music, especially compared with the eloquence of many on here.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Friday 21 January 2022, 19:20
This is one work suggested at U-Live: Vladimir Sokalsky/Volodymyr Sokalskyi (1863-1919) - Symphony in G minor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USDGp5I2sAc
Thoughts, anyone
I THINK we have a thread on Sokalsky on here...
What I meant was that, apart from Bortkiewicz, I have not been convinced that any composition by a Ukrainian composer mentioned so far is even close in quality to those by Russian/German/Polish composers of the same period. Which is not to say that they're not enjoyable...
QuoteI THINK we have a thread on Sokalsky on here...
Indeed - my apologies:
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,6750.msg81530.html#msg81530
...which seemed to indicate that his music wasn't really up to much.
Lysenko; Gliere & Bortkevich.
Glière is a known quantity, of course, as is Bortkiewicz. Both are unsung composers thoroughly worthy of exploration. But are there any others of that stature?
For example, Mykola Lysenko (1842-1912) was mentioned by Mike...
Also: I have just posted about Kosenko's VC in the dedicated Kosenko thread:
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,7562.msg89114.html#new
What do you think of Akimenko or Iuferov for example?
I take it you mean Fjodor Stepanovich Akimenko (1876-1945) and Sergei Vladimirovich Iuferov/Yuferov (b.1865 - d.?).
I'd never heard of either, so no idea!!
I think we're groping in the dark here - no recordings (to speak of), so opinions are hard to offer.
Akimenko has been mentioned a few times in this forum, I think, and likewise Yuferov I -thought-, but I'll check? :) I know Matesic has recorded a couple of works of the former, anyhow...
(Search reveals a few brief mentions of Akimenko but only one actual thread, a decade ago - http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,4020.msg46338.html#msg46338 (http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,4020.msg46338.html#msg46338).)
There is one 6-year-old very substantial recording of Akimenko's music, on Toccata Classics- his 2 violin sonatas. You're right that there's practically nothing more, but the sonata I've heard is worth hearing.
... has anyone mentioned Felix Blumenfeld in this thread, btw? His symphony and allegro de concert have certainly come up before, among other works, and deservedly in the case of the former - I don't know the latter yet.
I had obviously missed the Akimenko Violin Sonatas CD - perhaps I should investigate it. Thanks, Eric.
I hadn't realised Blumenfeld was born in Ukraine. He's a known quantity, of course.
Iuferov/Yuferov has been mentioned here, but with the spelling Youferov:
http://www.unsungcomposers.com/forum/index.php/topic,8295.msg86668.html#msg86668
The latest Fanfare has a detailed review of that CD. Dyck was also Ukrainian-born by the way.
And of course I have that CD. Multiple spelling options don't help!
Darn that Cyrillic alphabet :)
No: darn the multiple different attempts at translitteration!
I like Boris Lyatoshynsky's Symphonies. They were recorded in Kyev in 1993-4 and issued on Marco Polo.
Quote from: Christopher on Friday 21 January 2022, 19:22
I hope the moderators won't mind if I give a shout-out to this very worthy website - https://ukrainianlive.org (https://ukrainianlive.org)
U-Live is a project aimed at recording for the first time the music of Ukrainian composers across the ages, as well as unearthing older recordings which have remained locked-up and out of reach.
Contrary to what many outside the country would have people believe, Ukraine has always had its own composers writing music across the full range of the classical spectrum, not just folksy operas of limited appeal. Their late romantic music, for example, easily holds its own against Russian/German/Polish etc composers of the same period and would be a revelation to the musical world. And yet they remain unknown. It's telling that a large number of them were repressed (ie murdered or imprisoned, and their scores burned) by the NKVD in the 1930s.
I understand that U-Live is driven by Collegium Musicum Lviv under the conductor Ivan Ostapovych and the poet Taras Demko (http://collegiummusicum.com.ua/ (http://collegiummusicum.com.ua/)), with whom I am in touch.
If you go to https://ukrainianlive.org/composers (https://ukrainianlive.org/composers) you will see the composers they have worked on (many many of which are from "our" preferred era, and the many recordings they have which you can listen to if you download the app.
But - they need financial support, and have a fundraising page where you can make one-off or regular donations. If 1,000 people gave $5 a month...etc (I'm one of them..). Please do consider it! https://www.patreon.com/UkrainianLiveClassic (https://www.patreon.com/UkrainianLiveClassic)
Works by the composers Kosenko, Barvinsky, Stepovy and Bortkiewicz are among the newly-discovered unsung works that members of this Forum have taken the trouble to say have given them much pleasure.
The current political situation and a possible invasion of the country by Russia gives an added poignancy to this request: if Ukraine should be turned into scorched earth, its cultural legacy risks being lost forever without projects such as these.
Given the recent developments in Ukraine, the guys at Ukrainian Live have decided to make all the scores which they hold publicly available, free of charge. Follow this link - https://ukrainianlive.org/ukrainian-scores (https://ukrainianlive.org/ukrainian-scores) - you make the request (name of composer and piece of music) and enter your email address. If they have it they will send it.
Thanks Christopher. I imagine IMSLP will put in a bulk order!
Quote from: Alan Howe on Friday 21 January 2022, 19:25
I had obviously missed the Akimenko Violin Sonatas CD - perhaps I should investigate it. Thanks, Eric.
I hadn't realised Blumenfeld was born in Ukraine. He's a known quantity, of course.
And Gliere is another composer that people might not realise is from Ukraine. His staggering 3rd "Ilya Murometz" symphony being the subject of one of the longest threads on this forum. Born in Kyiv, of mixed Ukrainian German and Polish heritage. Studied at the Kyiv School of Music which later became the Kyiv Conservatory - he was appointed its director in 1914.
and Lyatoshinsky's teacher, iirc; the latter completed Gliere's violin concerto, I believe...
IMSLP doesn't put in orders at all, afaik, but editors/uploaders (and sometimes there -are- IMSLP-organized projects, it's true...) do...
Amidst all the other destruction, I expect the universities and libraries in Kharkiv, e.g., are probably lost :(
Excusez-moi, but calling Bortkiewicz or Gliere "Ukrainian composers" is ridiculous, as it would be to call Mahler a Czech composer (with the difference that Czechia sort of existed then, whereas Ukraine did not).
I think more to the point is less "where were they born" but "how did they regard themselves."
Eg whether Kuhlau was actually Danish, ...
From Wikipedia:
Sergei Eduardovich Bortkiewicz was born in Kharkov, Russian Empire (in present-day Kharkiv, Ukraine) on 28 February 1877 in a Polish noble family (father, Edward Bortkiewicz; mother, Zofia Bortkiewicz née Uszyńska) and spent most of his childhood on the family estate of Artemivka, near Kharkiv. Bortkiewicz received his musical training from Anatoly Lyadov and Karl von Arek at the Imperial Conservatory of Music in Saint Petersburg.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Bortkiewicz
Glière was born in Kyiv, Russian Empire, on 11th January 1875.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhold_Gli%C3%A8re
It's strictly anachronistic to describe Bortkiewicz or Glière as 'Ukrainian' in the modern sense as there was no independent Ukrainian state until 1917. However, I'm pretty sure they would have regarded themselves as Ukrainian by origin and culture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine
QuoteExcusez-moi, but calling Bortkiewicz or Gliere "Ukrainian composers" is ridiculous, as it would be to call Mahler a Czech composer (with the difference that Czechia sort of existed then, whereas Ukraine did not).
Well, Wikipedia describes Mahler as
Austro-Bohemian!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_Mahler
And with that - back to the topic, please.
I would add that more of the Bortkiewicz article needs to be read than that.
"I'm pretty sure they would have regarded themselves as Ukrainian by origin and culture."
This is exactly my point: Bortkiewicz and Gliere would definitely NOT have regarded themselves as Ukrainian, whereas Lyssenko and Lyatoshinsky surely/probably would.
They would probably have described themselves as both, given that Ukraine was in the Russian Empire, as also was Estonia, Latvia etc etc. However this is where English can't distinguish: there are two words for "Russian" in Russian - russky and rossiisky. The former refers to culture/literature/language etc, while the latter refers to officialdom - your passport/government/state/president. We can't know if any of them would have said one or the other.
der79sebas why do you use such strong words as "ridiculous" and "definitely"? What's the root of your certainty and vehemence? Putinversteher? There are ugly tones of denying Ukraine's existence as a state and a nation, which is exactly the cause of today's conflict (witness Putin's rambling and deranged 7000 word on precisely this topic of just a few months ago). Are you one of those who finds this "small faraway country's" claims to our attention irritating, believing it should just accept its fate at the hands of its larger neighbour? I note how you wrote "with the difference that Czechia sort of existed then, whereas Ukraine did not" - read Gogol and dare say that again.
What is certainly true is that where previously many in the country may have been ambiguous about their identity, they are now clear after everything they have witnessed over the past 8 years: they are Ukrainian, whether Russian-speaking or Ukrainian-speaking - and that Ukraine is therefore a state where civic identity, not ethnic, comes first. To bring this back to our composers - I believe it is highly likely that Gliere, Bortkiewicz and others, after seeing what Putin is doing to their home towns (Kyiv and Kharkiv) would come to the same conclusion.
Finally, this thread was made to draw attention to a team of Ukrainians who are heroically trying their damnedes t to save their country's musical heritage in the most challenging of conditions (and I and others are making donations to help them do this - how about you?).
QuoteBortkiewicz and Gliere would definitely NOT have regarded themselves as Ukrainian
I think they would have - at least, by origin.
Anyway, this aspect of the thread isn't getting us anywhere. Back to the
music, please. This is for the second and final time of asking.
There will be two concerts with music by Ukrainian composers to raise humanitarian funds for Ukraine, performed by Invicta Sinfonia:
- Sat 7th May, 7:00pm - St John the Baptist CE Church, London, SE6 2RP
- Sun 18th Sep, 7:00PM - Langley Park Centre for Performing Arts, South Eden Park Road, Beckenham, BR3 3BP
Programme:
Myroslav Skoryk - Melody
Boris Lyatoshynsky - Suite on Ukrainian Folksongs
and, er...Reinhold Gliere - Horn Concerto (soloist Joel Roberts)
https://www.ticketsource.co.uk/invictasinfonia/fundraising-concert-for-ukraine/2022-05-07/19:00/t-dydpvn (https://www.ticketsource.co.uk/invictasinfonia/fundraising-concert-for-ukraine/2022-05-07/19:00/t-dydpvn)
https://www.ticketsource.co.uk/invictasinfonia/fundraising-concert-for-ukraine/e-kxrokr (https://www.ticketsource.co.uk/invictasinfonia/fundraising-concert-for-ukraine/e-kxrokr)
https://www.facebook.com/invictasinfonia/posts/717457693032101 (https://www.facebook.com/invictasinfonia/posts/717457693032101)
Hope that goes great! thanks!