Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Friday 09 September 2022, 22:45

Title: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 09 September 2022, 22:45
From Leon Botstein:
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9370053--bristow-fry-classics-of-american-romanticism
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Justin on Saturday 10 September 2022, 07:01
I like Bristow's second symphony so I am looking forward to the fourth, although it doesn't sound uniquely American to me. It was recorded before by Karl Kreuger but in lackluster sound quality.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 10 September 2022, 09:16
Very little music written in the 19thC sounded 'uniquely American', I'd venture to say.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: terry martyn on Saturday 25 March 2023, 10:14
Although David Hurwitz favourably reviewed this CD , released last year and conducted by Botstein, it has been very difficult to purchase. I had it on order from Presto for a long while, until they informed me that the label (Bridge) had stopped manufacturing CDs of this performance.  But amazon.com notifies me today that my copy has shipped, and it seems that the CD is still available on their website.
The YouTube recording is severely cut, but I gather that no such gelding occurs on this CD.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Mark Thomas on Saturday 25 March 2023, 10:50
"gelding" - thanks for the word of the day, Terry!
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: TerraEpon on Saturday 25 March 2023, 12:17
It's on streaming sites, so there's that.

It also includes William Henry Fry's Niagara Symphony (which is also on the Naxos disc dedicated to Fry...)
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: terry martyn on Friday 31 March 2023, 12:07
My copy arrived from the States this morning.

The Bristow is a swirling,rollicking, High-Romantic symphony, painted with a broad brush. I thought that I was listening to Raff in the rousing Finale. Do not expect profundity, but go with the flow.

Both this and the Mirecki Symphony have been very pleasant surprises for me in recent weeks.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 27 May 2023, 19:36
A fun release, to be sure. The Fry is a noisy curiosity which I never want to hear again (!), but the Bristow, given here uncut and running to 42½ minutes, is worth the price of the CD on its own. It's an attractive and often exciting score, well worth resurrecting, the idiom being akin to, say, Rubinstein, i.e. 'conservative-German plus', with hardly a hint of anything truly American-sounding. 

To my ears the Mirecki is a vastly superior work - original and never for one moment outstaying its welcome, which the Bristow teeters on the edge of doing, especially in its opening movement. And there's no comparison with, say, Raff, here either.

Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Gareth Vaughan on Saturday 27 May 2023, 20:38
I tend to agree somewhat with Alan here. The Bristow is a bit long for its material, I feel, though pleasant enough. The American symphony I really would like to hear is Chadwick's Symphony No. 1, which exists in ms. I enjoy Chadwick's music.
The Fry I know from a Naxos disk and it is entertaining but weird.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 27 May 2023, 21:04
Agreed, Gareth. Chadwick is an altogether more sophisticated composer.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 30 May 2023, 12:22
Listening again to the Bristow - enjoyable opening movement, but far too long at 15:47. Extended loud climaxes do not a symphonic argument make! Beautiful viola solo, though...

I do hope that Botstein takes an interest in some of our colleague Reverie's realisations of symphonies by Bristow's contemporaries.

Meanwhile the Bristow is added to the pile of yawn-inducing symphonies labelled 'Please Cut Me' and the CD is probably filed somewhere dark and dusty.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Ilja on Tuesday 30 May 2023, 15:51
Quote from: Alan Howe on Saturday 27 May 2023, 21:04Agreed, Gareth. Chadwick is an altogether more sophisticated composer.
Purely personally, for me this is a classic case of where the "better" (i.e., more accomplished and, yes, more sophisticated) composer is perhaps the less interesting one. For all its technical skill, there is also a generic quality to much of Chadwick's music. Bristow and Fry, for all their imperfections, tried to tread new ground, and with far less of a musical infrastructure than Chadwick could fall back on.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 30 May 2023, 16:03
Chadwick's first has a chapter to it in "George Whitefield Chadwick: His Symphonic Works" and one that can be skimmed by Google Preview fairly substantially. (It now occurs to me that we discussed this in a thread devoted to the Chadwick first, July of last year.) I get mixed feelings from that: it looks like an interesting early work as early works go. (It did have the benefit of a premiere from ms in March 1882 at the Harvard Musical Association. Faucett has found no record of any performance since. Obviously not counting Rêverie's digital rendition of the first movement (have later movements been added to that?))
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 30 May 2023, 17:04
QuoteBristow and Fry, for all their imperfections, tried to tread new ground

Fry, to my mind, is not a serious player at all - more a purveyor of curiosities. Bristow's problem is that his ambition far outstrips his abilities; you just can't inflate a Mendelssohn + idiom and produce a satisfactory symphony. Chadwick, however, is an altogether more competent and consistent composer of symphonies - and he never wrote beyond his means, symphonies 2 and 3 both coming in at around 35 minutes. It's amazing how much more confident and persuasive his 2nd symphony (completed 1885) is than Bristow's 4th (composed 1872). Of course, Chadwick (b.1854) is a generation later than Bristow (b.1825) - and it shows.

<<...the New England native is just a damn fine composer. Period.>>
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/chadwick-symphony-no-2-symphonic-sketches
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Ilja on Wednesday 31 May 2023, 08:43
I don't entirely disagree with you on Fry, although on must make allowances for his lack of formal education and it's perhaps not entirely fair to compare him to Chadwick (whose difference of a generation meant he could enjoy a much better musical education). That's a bit like comparing a naïve local painter to a pupil of Rembrandt's. On the other hand, Fry is ... interesting because his lack of education led him to ways of expression that are quite unique. It's just a pity he seems unable to build up narrative tension in a piece, so they all end up as chaotic jumbles. Interestingly, the same problem affects his writing.

Bristow is, of course, a different case. For me, the Arcadian is by far Bristow's least successful symphony; the 2nd D minor and (particularly) the 3rd F# minor are both better, even if the former shares the issue of an over-long 2nd movement with the 4th. The 3rd is just a fun "little" symphony, that works pretty well: not too long, and not too pretentious (unlike the 4th).

I really tried to get into Chadwick a few years ago, and the symphonies probably show him at his best (even if the 2nd leans a bit too much toward Stanford for my taste). That endless string of overtures and symphonic poems, on the other hand, seems to come out of the least inspired corner of the Second New England School.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 31 May 2023, 09:43
Chadwick comes across as a properly schooled composer, which is exactly what he was. Bristow, by comparison, is very hit-and-miss, as befits an adventurous pioneer. I must go back to his other symphonies as No.4 is a bore of almost Rubinstein proportions (apologies in advance to fans of the latter's symphonies to which I am probably unusually allergic).
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 31 May 2023, 11:45
Quoteeven if the 2nd leans a bit too much toward Stanford for my taste
This is a bad thing, Ilja?
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Ilja on Wednesday 31 May 2023, 12:19
I'd rather have original Stanford and Chadwick than the latter taking perhaps a bit too much inspiration from the former, that's all.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 01 June 2023, 09:21
I don't think that Chadwick owes much to Stanford (directly, that is). It's more a question of shared musical education in Leipzig under Reinecke (Chadwick went in 1877, Stanford for the first time in 1874).
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Ilja on Thursday 01 June 2023, 11:32
That could certainly be a factor, even if I don't hear a lot of Reinecke in either composer. But education is an often underappreciated factor, so that's a very good point.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 01 June 2023, 17:55
It's more a question of the sort of musical conservatism (anti-Wagner, even anti-Brahms) in general that both composers imbibed at Leipzig than any direct influence of Reinecke's style.

Stanford said of Reinecke, "Of all the dry musicians I have ever known he was the most desiccated. He had not a good word for any contemporary composer... He loathed Wagner ... sneered at Brahms and had no enthusiasm of any sort."
(Source quoted here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Villiers_Stanford)

This may, of course, explain the sense that Chadwick was composing 'to a plan', whereas Bristow (at his best) was trying to strike out on his own. As far as I can tell, the latter never ventured outside America.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 01 June 2023, 22:41
According to Katherine Preston's Bristow biography, Bristow did- as a pre-teen, joining his parents to the family home of Kent, England in 1832 briefly; "this would be the composer's only known travel outside the United States". So you're essentially right :)
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 01 June 2023, 22:43
Thanks - but no evidence of travel to Europe for study purposes, evidently.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: eschiss1 on Thursday 01 June 2023, 22:59
The next person who finds evidence that he visited Europe after age 6 or so may be the first, apparently.
Title: Re: Bristow Symphony No.4 & Fry Niagara Symphony
Post by: Sharkkb8 on Saturday 03 June 2023, 05:38
Quote from: terry martyn on Saturday 25 March 2023, 10:14...it has been very difficult to purchase. I had it on order from Presto for a long while, until they informed me that the label (Bridge) had stopped manufacturing CDs of this performance.  But amazon.com notifies me today that my copy has shipped, and it seems that the CD is still available on their website.....

The Bristow/Fry album is also available from Apple Music.

https://music.apple.com/us/album/bristow-fry-classics-of-american-romanticism/1641135428 (https://music.apple.com/us/album/bristow-fry-classics-of-american-romanticism/1641135428)