Unsung Composers

The Music => Recordings & Broadcasts => Topic started by: Alan Howe on Friday 09 June 2023, 17:28

Title: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 09 June 2023, 17:28
Sounds terrific to me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcgPNcqK7eo

Here's the CD - website in Hungarian:
https://webaruhaz.rozsavolgyi.hu/hu/kotta/death-and-the-maiden-symphony-orchestra-version-cd

Unfortunately it's impossible to follow the 'help' advice to put in an order. I have emailed them...
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: 4candles on Friday 09 June 2023, 18:59
Does this translated website (https://webaruhaz-rozsavolgyi-hu.translate.goog/hu/kotta/death-and-the-maiden-symphony-orchestra-version-cd?_x_tr_sl=hu&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp) help?

4c
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Friday 09 June 2023, 19:40
No - but thanks for trying.
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Mark Thomas on Friday 09 June 2023, 23:07
There's also at least one other orchestration, by Andy Stein, available on Naxos (https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7933893--schubert-death-and-the-maiden-symphony-no-8) and played by the Buffalo Philharmonic conducted by JoAnn Falletta. "At least" because I'm fairly sure I already have two, maybe three, recordings of different orchestrations but I can't check at present as I'm away from home.
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: semloh on Saturday 10 June 2023, 03:13
...maybe you have the arrangement by Mahler, Mark!  ;)
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: terry martyn on Saturday 10 June 2023, 09:14
I have the excellent Mahler, on LP!!
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 10 June 2023, 10:22
I have the Naxos/Falletta recording, but had never come across the Vass arrangement.
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: CelesteCadenza on Saturday 10 June 2023, 13:18
Patricia Kopatchinskaja has made an arrangement for the Saint Paul Chamber Orchestra which was recorded in concert and released on Alpha-Classics:
https://outhere-music.com/en/albums/schubert-death-and-maiden
The concert had music by others interspersed within the Schubert and that is reflected in the CD release but  that can easily be reprogrammed on most CD players and on your computer if you find that concept distasteful.

Some, if not all, of the Schubert is on Youtube; the first movement is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPlWstUaHAE&t=8s
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 10 June 2023, 13:43
The Alpha release features an arrangement for strings only, however. Speaking personally, I'm looking for a convincing version for full orchestra - hence the Vass.
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 12 June 2023, 09:08
Well, through a combination of helpful advice from the Hungarian retailer and Google Translate (!), I've managed to order the CD.

Please don't ask me to explain the process, though, because I can't remember it!

Info about the Pannon Philharmonic Orchestra here:
https://www.pfz.hu/en/zenekar
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: eschiss1 on Monday 12 June 2023, 19:52
That orchestra's name is familiar- I think we may have discussed another of their discs, with a serenade and a symphony. (A search reveals they've (or the Pannon Chamber Orchestra- related?...) recorded Volkmann's serenades- not what I meant, but good!- oh, Pannon is the _label_ that Beliczay's symphony was recorded on. My bad.)
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Monday 12 June 2023, 21:10
To me they sound like a pretty fine band. The performance of the Schubert is extremely convincing - and exciting.
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 13 June 2023, 12:53
I'm asking myself why this orchestration sounds so much more convincing that the Brahms/Holloway piece recently released. Perhaps it's got something to do with the performance: the Schubert sounds very 'live', whereas the Brahms doesn't - in fact the July issue of Gramophone magazine attributes this to the 'rehearse-record' process involved.
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: eschiss1 on Tuesday 13 June 2023, 16:42
Not having heard the Schubert orchestration, I couldn't possibly say, though my problems with the Brahms/Holloway had to do with choices of instruments; Brahms was a better orchestrator than he is given credit for (consider, though it's a later work, the second movement of his first symphony, Breitkopf 1926-7 score: bars 38 (one before B) - 48 (first flute, bassoon and horn also enter), and how those bars would sound with different instruments than the first oboe and clarinet (up to 48) above the string accompaniment. I maintain that those are just the right instruments for that moment, whereas in the piano quintet arrangement as I heard it, I didn't much get that feeling of the content leading to the [instrumentation].)
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 13 June 2023, 19:14
Do give the Schubert a listen, Eric. The YouTube link's in my first post.
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Wednesday 28 June 2023, 17:46
After a few more listens I can't help thinking that this is a magnificent piece. Is this not one of the most convincing orchestrations of a chamber work?
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: gprengel on Thursday 29 June 2023, 01:15
It seems to me that this arrangement by A. Stein is maybe even better:
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Mark Thomas on Thursday 29 June 2023, 07:09
I find Vass' full-blooded orchestration preferable to Stein's, good though that is, because it does a better job of bringing out the symphonic potential in Schubert's original. Admittedly neither could be mistaken for Schubert's mature orchestral idiom (unlike Joachim's orchestration of the Grand Duo) but both are satisfying works in their own right. I just find Stein's a little "safe" and less exciting than Vass'.
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 29 June 2023, 09:29
I too find Vass' version more exciting - and more excitingly played.
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Reverie on Thursday 29 June 2023, 22:13
As regards the Vass - on a different tangent I find the actual recording annoying because of the excessive reverb which hits you from the outset. Why do they think we want to hear this work in an vast empty cathedral?
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Thursday 29 June 2023, 22:18
I understand that objection but I quite like it. I may feel differently when the CD arrives, of course.
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Tuesday 04 July 2023, 14:59
The CD has taken just over three weeks to arrive!

The recording is of a live performance given in the Kodály Centre in Pécs, Hungary in May 2013. I find that the extra resonance of a large concert hall adds significantly to the excitement of the performance, which is palpable. To my mind this is vastly preferable to the recording of the Stein arrangement on Naxos
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 18 May 2024, 19:10
I decided to give this another listen after all these months and I'm as convinced as ever about the merits of this orchestration. It's absolutely majestic - finally we have a mature-sounding symphonic statement by Schubert to put alongside the Unfinished and the Great C Major.

When you hear this, it seems as if Rufinatscha is just round the corner...
Title: Re: Schubert 'Death and the Maiden' orchestrated by Vass
Post by: Alan Howe on Saturday 18 May 2024, 19:23
By the way: the Pannon Philharmonic (from Pécs in south-western Hungary) are a very fine orchestra. There's an exciting performance of Nielsen 3 on YouTube conducted by Gilbert Varga.