Just stumbled upon this new CPO release that includes the works displayed on the thread title:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nSgfJaAp-ipplN5iMR_YJHKcAxMx0MrUY
It never ceases to baffle me why these releases appear first on streaming platforms rather than on the official website. Anyway, looks like a new and promising project that hopefully will record all of his symphonies and orchestral works.
Yes, almost like a preview, except that one can hear the whole thing! Very strange. Symphony No.2 in G major dates from 1908, incidentally. Right up my street - thanks!
Download details here: https://www.prostudiomasters.com/album/page/305338
Büttner's 2nd Symphony is predominantly a good-humoured work demonstrating a real command of the late-romantic orchestra (e.g. gorgeous writing for the brass). It is in three movements (10:31; 10:42; 14:44), with a central movement Scherzo.
This has really lightened my mood this evening. Thanks so much to Tapiola for spotting it!
Looking forward to. I've heard his 3rd (in D-flat, ending in c-sharp minor) recently while borrowing the interesting score. Thanks! And I agree, hope cpo intends to, or already has, recorded the first and third for release in a reasonable timeframe ;)
Quote from: eschiss1 on Friday 25 October 2024, 21:54And I agree, hope cpo intends to, or already has, recorded the first and third for release in a reasonable timeframe
Well, yes: we can hope, but this new recording isn't even listed at jpc - yet.
This looks like a mishap; it's surprisingly easy to set a YT video to "public" by accident.
In which case it cannot help but ponder the coincidence that one of the two bridges in the cover image (the Carolabrücke, or rather its second incarnation) spontaneously collapsed earlier this year.
This CD is available for streaming first, it seems. Spotify also have it now.
I absolutely love the heroic overture. Now we get another commerical release after the one on Sterling and a broadcast!
Also I just discovered that the Sterling version of the Heroic Overture is cut. The new recording has more music in the second subject section.
The vibrant triangle is also to be welcomed, which is inaudible in the Sterling version.
Looks like this'll be an altogether excellent release.
This is unusual practice for cpo, who tend to restrict access to other formats for the first weeks after the physical CD release. I can only assume that the orchestra preferred this way.
But whatever the marketing considerations, thankfully the symphony is excellent, and so is the performance. This is a prime example of how a good recording can really bring out the best in a musical work. Not that the old Pflüger recording (with the Leipzig RSO) was awfully played, but the sound was quite bad and the recording balance was also off (favoring the left side of the orchestra). Also, it contained sizeable cuts in the second and third movements, which partly explains the six-minute difference. Weigle's recording with the as-usual excellent Frankfurt/Oder orchestra, appears to be complete, and all these differences make the work sound notably more substantial than it might have appeared from the old recording.
The setup of the symphony is somewhat unusual; the outer movements contain both faster and slower sections, while the middle movement is rather fast. Büttner is often cast as a Brucknerite, but the evidence here points at a different inspiration in the form of Richard Strauss, and when looking for other influences it made me think most of Emil von Reznicek. Listen to this, and then to Reznicek's Wie Till Eulenspiegel lebte, for instance. The delightful, fleet-footed Scherzo middle movement is perhaps the clearest example, and it is full of humorous, quirky play with rhythm. There are some Brucknerian moments, most notably at the slow beginning of the finale, but they never last long.
Bruckner's influence returns in the understandably much more sombre Eine Vision (1920). However, it sounds much more modern than the symphony, let alone Bruckner himself. The work opens with a reference to Beethoven's Eroica, which then quickly dissipates into a faux regimental march in what one assumes is a reference to historical events. Particularly in the Fugue middle movement Büttner plays around with dissonance, and the end result comes across as somewhat similar to the way in which Ravel's La Valse reflects on the carelessness of pre-WW1 Vienna. The Epilogue third movement is more tangibly Brucknerian, however. The piece as a whole feels intensely bleak but is perhaps also the most powerful of Büttner's works. It contrasts very well with an almost jolly symphony.
That bleakness had apparently evaporated when Büttner wrote the Heroische Ouvertüre in 1925. It could have been written ten or twenty years earlier, and despite all its earnestness it sounds not nearly as personal as either of the other works on offer here.
Altogether, without a shadow of a doubt, my recording of the year sofar. Five days until Stöhr #2. This'll be a good week.
Great review, Ilja - thanks. Büttner's really gone up in my estimation as a result of this release. And don't the orchestra play brilliantly? You're right about the influences on the Symphony - there's certainly Strauss, and also something of Reznicek's sardonic humour, and I detect Draeseke too (Büttner was one of his pupils, of course).
Presto are now listing the download:
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9730076--paul-buttner-symphony-no-2-vision
Has anyone noticed the Rosenkavalier-like section from around 8:30 in the first movement of the Symphony? Except that Büttner got there first...
The CD has now suddenly appeared out of nowhere at jpc:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/paul-buettner-symphonie-nr-2/hnum/11166104
And the CD has now arrived here in the UK from jpc...
I note, by the way, that this recording wasn't made in connection with a radio broadcast. I don't know whether that's significant.
The playing and sonics are very good: I rather like the spacious acoustic of the Messehalle No.1 in Frankfut (Oder) - the town is located close to Germany's eastern border with Poland, incidentally.
I hear a lot of Draeseke in the music on this CD, mostly in the contrapuntal mastery of the writing on display. I suppose the Symphony is the most Straussian of the three works included and, for that reason, and for its generous spirit, it is likely to be the most widely appreciated of the trio recorded here. All in all, a most interesting and attractive disc of late-romantic music.
now listed at JPC and streaming on Amazon Music.
Started giving the symphony a listen, first movement so far, rest later. Nice!!!
(I might be wrong but I'm getting the impression here that Draeseke was a good teacher...)
Quote from: eschiss1 on Thursday 21 November 2024, 00:56I'm getting the impression here that Draeseke was a good teacher...
Yes: the new Büttner CD is proof of that!
The Symphony is, I believe, a major find. It has a distinct personality, expressing a wide range of sentiments, all clothed in masterly writing for the orchestra of a facility rivalling his great contemporary Strauss. And this within a 36-minute span. Miraculous!
It's been one of the most jocular, carefree symphonies I've listened to recently. It just oozes good vibes from start to finish, conveyed through an outstanding use of the orchestra and a strong sense of development. I hasten to add that, much as I enjoyed it, I prefer the most heroic and 'Wagnerian' 4th (I also listened to it recently and wow, this is exceptionally brilliant music, quite eloquent when needed too).
Eine Vision is not far behind in greatness. This is the most serious piece in the CD and not for that less attractive. In fact, it could be the work that gave me the most favorable impression overall. The structure of Prelude, Fugue and Epilogue sounded quite convincing and compelling. The Heroic Overture, on the other hand, was entertaining, but not at the same level of inspiration as the aforementioned pieces.
One of my favorite recordings of this year. Can't wait for the next installment of CPO project.
One of the features of the recording is what sounds like a rather sparing use of vibrato by the string section. Has anyone else noticed this? (I'm not complaining, just observing; I think the performance is terrific.)
Like you, Alan, I noticed that Rosenkavalier-like section in the first movement. And, now you've pointed it out, Mark, yes sparing vibrato in the strings.... It's a marvellous recording, and does full justice to the fine music.
Here's a rather lukewarm review which demonstrates a poor understanding of Büttner's idiom and importance:
https://musicwebinternational.com/2025/02/buttner-symphony-no-2-cpo/
Where's the influence of the composer's teacher Draeseke? Where's the comparison with his contemporary Strauss? Very disappointing. IMHO, of course.
Also, the reviewer implies that the new recording of the Overture is slower rather than uncut...
Quote from: eschiss1 on Monday 24 February 2025, 23:22the new recording of the Overture is slower rather than uncut...
Oh dear. A case of consulting the sleevenotes rather than the music? Are you able to check this out for us, Eric?
(http://quiosq.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/buttner-ov-waves.jpg)
If we look at the waveforms (Weigle at the top and Pflüger at the bottom) the image seems pretty conclusive. Weigle is even a bit quicker in passages, particularly during the first third. About a minute of music cut by Pflüger can be found around the four minute mark in Weigle, and there's another minute or so at 14:00.
Thanks, Ilja. And all missed by Mr Woolf! There should surely be a correction...
I remember this being talked about right here awhile back. Yes, I agree re correction: -nota bene!- Musicweb message board policy for awhile now is to bring this sort of thing directly to the attention of the reviewer rather than posting it publicly on the board, as i recall ( one can do so through Mr. Mullenger since it's not as though all their addresses are public knowledge.)
(I recently forgot that recently when a reviewer claimed that Krenek was one of Schoenberg's pupils, but my mistake was easily fixed... (and I have edited the mistaken webpage which seems to have served as the author's source, though I doubt the article will end up edited, ah well. That's irrelevant, though.))
If I remembered correctedly the cut of heroic overture is in exposition of the second subject (by the way I'm so sad that there's no literal recap of the second subject) and before the coda. The latter one is actually meandering in my opinion and the piece does not suffer much from this omission.
A solution to my mind would be to have two excellent recordings available, one uncut, one cutting that latter section. Cuts are, as Walker notes Liszt pointing out in the former's fine biography, a tool, not a bad thing - Liszt referred to the cutting process itself as a work of art of a kind (or as part of the work of art, if you prefer!), and I understand what he meant (or I suppose I do!) especially since he made a point of trying to create condensed works that still "worked" formally/logically as music rather than as distressing chunks. It's possible, I realize, as with other composers besides Liszt (Reger too, e.g.) that the Buttner cuts might be authorized...
We're in danger, though, of missing the point here. It appears that the MusicWeb review failed to realise that the older recording was cut whereas the new one isn't. This isn't an argument about the validity of cuts, but rather about the failure to compare like with like...
.
Rereading the review: Buttner atheist? Drat, I missed services and prayers again. (!??!? People who don't know the meanings of the words they use are the least confusing kinds of reviewers, ...
I imagine he wishes to use the word "skeptic", not a word which means "not believing passively or actively in any deity" and which makes zero sense in context- but wth do I know.)
It's not.. wholly clear whether he's heard the Sterling recording.
Quoting the review "He may have been a near-contemporary of Strauss, and a decade older than Mahler". My math fails...
Quote from: tc on Wednesday 26 February 2025, 13:47and a decade older than Mahler
I'd missed that. Another factual error in an inadequate review.
The reviewer did me a good turn. He encouraged me to listen both to a cut version (Pfluger) and to the cpo (three times).
And the result is that ,although I am no fan of mature Richard Strauss or later Mahler, I will be ordering it.
As Alan says, it is a winner.
Quote from: Alan Howe on Wednesday 26 February 2025, 16:51Quote from: tc on Wednesday 26 February 2025, 13:47and a decade older than Mahler
I'd missed that. Another factual error in an inadequate review.
I did notice it but I'm sure it's a typo. And as a writer of sorts I've made the same kind of error so I'm hesitant to judge him too hard there. The misjudgments regarding the overture are more egregious in my view because it is likely due to laziness.
Quote from: Ilja on Thursday 27 February 2025, 19:01I'm sure it's a typo
Aren't unchecked typos proof of laziness?
Can be. But generally of an inadequate editorial process. That's what you have final editing for.
Quote from: Ilja on Friday 28 February 2025, 10:35That's what you have final editing for
Oh, quite. Just wasn't done in this instance.
Quote from: Ilja on Tuesday 25 February 2025, 11:21(http://quiosq.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/buttner-ov-waves.jpg)
If we look at the waveforms (Weigle at the top and Pflüger at the bottom) the image seems pretty conclusive. Weigle is even a bit quicker in passages, particularly during the first third. About a minute of music cut by Pflüger can be found around the four minute mark in Weigle, and there's another minute or so at 14:00.
Now everyone seems to believe the overture was conducted by Pflüger due to an apparent "typo". But the conductor is actually Hans-Peter Frank according to the Sterling CD cover.
Indeed. Raspberries all round!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeAYOimTGjM
Quote from: tc on Friday 28 February 2025, 12:27Quote from: Ilja on Tuesday 25 February 2025, 11:21(http://quiosq.eu/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/buttner-ov-waves.jpg)
If we look at the waveforms (Weigle at the top and Pflüger at the bottom) the image seems pretty conclusive. Weigle is even a bit quicker in passages, particularly during the first third. About a minute of music cut by Pflüger can be found around the four minute mark in Weigle, and there's another minute or so at 14:00.
Now everyone seems to believe the overture was conducted by Pflüger due to an apparent "typo". But the conductor is actually Hans-Peter Frank according to the Sterling CD cover.
You see, that's why I'm tolerant towards innocent mistakes. Ahem. This is on me.
I had no axe to grind against anyone. The point is just that the internet is a sea of misinformation, intentional or unintentional. Love life (or unsung compositions) and consume electronic waste wisely if one must.
Quote from: tc on Saturday 01 March 2025, 14:17I had no axe to grind against anyone
No, quite. I'm glad you drew attention to the error. The issue is that it was a mistake in a review that made a much more serious error with regard to the comparison of the two recordings of the Heroic Overture.