Hi all
Bradford being the City of Culture this year has led me here. Bradford-born are few and far between, but even those we have (principally Delius) aren't terrifically well represented in the programme so far.
Which led me to Frederic Cliffe. I'm a (very amateur) pianist and singer, so I'm not going to be able to mount a performance of the symphonies. But I'm trying to find out more about some of his other works - whether they are performable, or could be adapted/arranged.
- Ode to the North-East Wind (Choral Ballad)
- A Silent Voice (song)
- Out of the Deep (anthem)
There appears to be a copy of North-East Wind at Huddersfield Uni, which I am trying to get access to. But I am otherwise drawing a blank.
If anybody has come across these works or has any ideas where to find them, I'd love to hear about it.
Thanks
Ian.
A quick search on WorldCat shows a number of locations for the Ode, and quite a few songs and the odd piano piece, apart from the orchestral works.
You will find WorldCat a useful online resource, especially the Advanced Search.
Supplemented maybe in this case by the catalogs of RAM and RCM, I think (correction- Worldcat now contains at least part of the RCM catalog, at least- this has not always been the case at all). (RAM only has two Cliffe items - the Ode to the North-East Wind, yes, in one loanable (vocal score) and one reference (string parts) form, and The triumph of Alcestis (reference - vocal score).) The latter work was republished by Recital Publications in 2009. Indeed RCM, according to Worldcat, also has the Alcestis vocal score, likewise U North Texas. And yes, indeed, Worldcat lists 8 locations for the vocal score to the North-East Wind, and the choral parts at National Library of Scotland.
Also, of course, don't forget JISC/COPAC (https://discover.libraryhub.jisc.ac.uk/) which lists yet more locations for the Ode in various versions? Will see what else I can find.
JISC turns up Out of the Deep only at U. Oxford Libraries, in 2 editions.
Thank you both so much. If I can get to Leeds Uni library, then it looks like I might be onto something.
An update - I've progressed quite a lot in the last couple of weeks.
I've managed to buy an original copy of the Ode, which is great to have. And I bought a copy of Alcestis from Recital Publications - thanks for that tip - apparently I'm the only person to have ever bought one! It's quite an odd piece, hopefully it will grow on me :)
The Bodleian are sending me a copy of Out of the Deep this week and I'm going to see a bunch of stuff at another library on Friday. There is one set of four songs that are only available to view in London, which I'm hoping to do next month. But in the meantime I found one of the songs online - When I am Dead, words by Christina Rossetti. It's quite lovely.
Oh, and according to his birth certificate, his name is actually "Fred" ;D
Thanks again for putting me on the right track.
Quote from: irs101 on Saturday 25 January 2025, 10:56his name is actually "Fred"
Do you think that "Frederic" (which is the French spelling) was some sort of affectation - and have you any idea who came up with it?
I haven't got anything on that yet - every reference I've found so far, apart from his birth record, is Frederic.
I've asked the church where he was organist (at age 11 apparently) to see if they can find him in any of their records. So maybe I'll see if he had started using Frederic at that point.
I did wonder if he'd done it to avoid confusion with Fred E Cliffe (of When I'm Cleaning Windows fame). But the timing's not quite right.
Thanks, and keep going!
Hi all
Thought some might appreciate an update on my project.....there is going to be a concert of Cliffe's songs.
It's going to be on Sunday 12 October in Wyke, Bradford, at the church where Cliffe got his first organist position at the age of 11. The John Ireland Trust have very generously funded the bulk of the costs, as a tribute to Ireland's piano teacher at the RCM.
The programme isn't finalised yet, but will include most of Cliffe's 12 songs. There will also be a selection of Ireland's music - the piano piece he wrote while a student of Cliffe's, a setting of a Rossetti text that Cliffe also set, plus one or two songs from the current ABRSM syllabus - as a tribute to Cliffe's work as an ABRSM examiner. I might even slot in a couple of Delius's early songs. All subject to timings!
I will also recount Cliffe's life, including a few words from his brother Thomas, and Cedric Cliffe's view on Delius ;D
If any of you are in the Bradford area, you would of course be very welcome. Free tickets are at https://fredericcliffe.eventbrite.co.uk
Or you can follow developments on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/frederic.cliffe (and if the link doesn't work, search for "Bradford's Forgotten Composer"). There's not a lot on there at the moment - just a trailer featuring his 1st symphony (thanks to Sterling Records) - only confirmed the concert yesterday, so need to get on with advertising it now!
Thanks again for your collective early help.
Thank you for all your hard work - and for keeping us updated.
...I guess this question fits well with the name of the thread: Is anyone aware of an existant recording of his 2nd Symphony (E-minor)? On Youtube I can find recordings of the 1st, but have been unsuccessful in finding a recording of the 2nd there or on any other platform.
There is the (private) recording of the considerable Second that the late Chris Fifield conducted and produced. And it's well worth possessing,albeit performed by an amateur orchestra. I obtained my copy directly from Dr Fifield shortly before his death, and he told me that he still had a handful available. So,the remaining available CDs are almost certainly the property of his estate.
...ein Wunder ist geschehen! (German: a miracle happened!)... Thank you very much for this. The very first time I have been able to trace an actually existing recording of this piece.
This recordings seems to be available also here:
https://classical-music-online.net/en/production/206516
Not legitimately.
I've had this recording for some time, and as much as I applaud the late Chris Fifield for his efforts in resurrecting this piece, I also have to admit that after having listened to it I was sorely disappointed. Firstly because as a piece of music it doesn't come anywhere close to Cliffe's excellent and very atractive C minor First Symphony. The invention and inspiration that lifted its predecessor just aren't there, and that makes its full hour (15 minutes more than the first) a slog to get through. It doesn't help that it is played at an absolutely glacial pace by the Lambeth Orchestra, an amateur ensemble that sounds as though it's bitten off a bit more than it could chew.
We are going to lock horns on this one,Ilja.
Granted that it is an amateur orchestra,and no doubt a professional orchestra would have sounded a lot more polished, I would far rather have the CD than not. I have debated elsewhere with Alan that ,in my opinion,this is the finest British symphony between Sullivan and Elgar, a considerable piece of work- ,sonorous,profound,and with memorable themes.
Maybe our difference of opinion will lead some interested colleagues to try and obtain one of the few remaining CDs from Dr Fifield's executors - I totally agree with Eric that the pirated upload does nothing but a disservice to Dr Fifield's memory.
Between 1866 and 1908- ok, that's quite a span, but not having heard the work yet, I can't yet comment.
Quote from: terry martyn on Saturday 20 September 2025, 16:27[...] I have debated elsewhere with Alan that ,in my opinion,this is the finest British symphony between Sullivan and Elgar, a considerable piece of work- ,sonorous,profound,and with memorable themes.
I prefer to avoid absolute statements when it comes to music, because although I do believe we can risk a very limited number of assertions about quality (and even there...) after that it's pretty much down to individual preference and taste. For that reason alone, I'm wary to describe any work as "best" of anything.
Valuation obviously also depends on what one values in such a work. For me, in the category of "English symphonies between Sullivan and Elgar", Cliffe's 2nd lacks the variation or the fluidity to rate it as an equal to contemporary English symphonies such as, for instance, Parry's "English", German's "Norwich" or Cliffe's own C minor. In addition, it's simply much too long. The end result is something that feels self-indulgent and is cast into a form that is far too ambitious for its material.
As an experiment, I sped up to 15-20%, which I think takes away some (but not all) of the performance's issues and gives it a fairer chance.
I was speaking for myself, of course, although it is plain that Dr Fifield himself rated the work very highly, and the private recording he made (with the help of certain Forum members) was in part to celebrate his 70th birthday.
I don't.of course, know whether his wife or some other relative now holds the handful of CDs which were still available for sale when I approached him, but I would imagine that there are some amongst us who are enterprising enough to find out.
By the way, Cliffe's Coronation March is also on that CD, and I think it's a pretty good representative of its genre. I have just looked up Rob Barnett's review of the CD on Musicweb, and he tends to agree.
Well.....it happened. On Sunday, for the first time in over 100 years, around 100 people gathered to listen to a concert of songs by Frederic Cliffe.
Singers: Lucy Wormsley, Lucy Scriven, Fiona Smyth, Ian Smyth
Piano: Robert Sudall and Ian Smyth
Programme:
- 10 songs by Frederic Cliffe
- Spring Sorrow, Sea Fever and When I Am Dead by John Ireland
- Over the Mountain High and The Nightingale by Fredrick Delius
- Piano pieces - Daydream by Ireland, and First Cuckoo in Spring by Delius
Plus short talks about Cliffe covering:
- His early life
- His career and rise to fame
- His students - Benjamin and Ireland
- His other works
- His music at the Proms
- His examining career
- His son, Cedric Cliffe
- Memories of Cliffe
Next steps....finish engraving all the songs and get them on IMSLP :)