The coming Friday Deutschlandfunk Kultur will broadcast a concert with the Philharmonisches Orchester Bremerhaven conducted by Marc Niemann.
The main item will be Johanna Senfter's Symphony No. 2 in D minor, Op. 27.
Thanks! I see there's a link at WorldConcerthall.com (https://www.worldconcerthall.com/en/schedule/battistelli_strauss_with_serfling_and_senfters_second_from_bremerhaven/85580/#nogo) -- what I don't know is if this is a registration and pay site, or if, when it becomes available (24 January at 1900 GMT), it will be available for free?
(I see that's 2 pm EST on Friday, and I have a class/group at 2 pm Fridays, so that's me out. If anyone's willing to upload this, I know I'm interested in hearing it...)
It's here (scroll down to 20:03 Uhr):
https://www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de/programm?drsearch:date=2025-01-24
(It's possible that the WorldConcertHall link will still work after the concert, btw, I'll try then. They seem to have a lot of concerts at that site- I should have a look, if I can.. oh-kay, that site may deserve a thread all its own actually, if it doesn't have one; links to archive broadcast pages on different radio stations (like DR Denmark), etc. ...- looks very, very useful...)
Usually concert broadcasts are available for 30 days at Deutschlandfunk Kultur. But there are rare cases when this is not possible for legal reasons. Of course I will record this broadcast ,,live" but I mentioned it in case I should fail so other members can plan to record themselves.
Latvian radio itself keeps their broadcasts available after the concerts, at least a month I think. Latvian radio 3:
https://klasika.lsm.lv/lv/lr/arhivs/?curr_year=2021
Also World Concert Hall is wonderful, and Orchestra On Demand also offers archived broadcasts from quite a few orchestras.
https://orchestraondemand.blogspot.com/
Did anyone manage to record this?
Isn't it not broadcast until Friday? (I incidentally see that I have the SWR Kultur app and will see if I can listen to the archive there Friday night...)
Quite right, Eric. It's on Friday 24th. Apologies.
The broadcast is currently on air. I missed the beginning. But the audio is already on demand here:
https://www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de/musik-von-giorgio-battistelli-richard-strauss-johanna-senfter-100.html
Thank you, Mathias.
I've listened to the first movement and impressed by it so far! But try as I might I can't find a way to get an mp3 of this performance. Is anyone able to record it - or give any info on an app I can use (Mac)?
Ah, I should have checked the Downloads section! Many thanks for recording, britishcomposer
Thanks!
Did they give a list of movements? :)
I'm afraid that, for me at least, the continuous, restless chromaticism here makes for a very arduous listen, despite some rather beautiful interludes. Resolutions at the end of movements, e.g. the first movement here, come as something of a surprise. I'm constantly reminded of Reger...
From our friend and Senfter expert, Petteri Nieminen, some pointers to Senfter's style and compositional processes:
Quote2nd Symphony in D minor. Four movements, practically similar orchestration, about 40 minutes. She often did a 6/8 finale in her earlier symphonies. Was performed once in the early 1920's.
General characteristics of her symphonies.
-Usually they follow the sonata form very closely in the 1st and 4th movements (which makes typesetting easier as the first 30-40 bars of recapitulation are identical to the beginning).
-Senfter does dynamics with instrumentation. As the music intensifies, more are more instruments join a line (usually the woodwinds also in the manner that the 1st player joins first, then the 2nd) and they also exit a phrase in the same manner.
-In the earlier symphonies the woodwinds do not always show much independence but double the strings (as explained above), less so beginning with the 3rd and 4th symphonies.
-Senfter usually goes straight into business. No long introductions, the first theme groups starts at measure 1. No extended codas, either, once you reach the principal key in a reasonably satisfactory manner, it's OK and we can all go home (I like her endings).
-The horns are big players. They often introduce principal the groups (we.g., 2nd and 3rd symphonies) and for the remainder of the time, they have their own counter-melodies that add richness to the overall score.
-The trumpets are a bit more restricted for culminations of passages, trombones and tuba have interesting passages of accompanying especially woodwind solos and soli.
-Clarinets have a lot to do when it comes to woodwind solos, flutes next, oboes quite a lot of less and bassoons mostly double the cellos and double basses
-String parts are very demanding, requiring high passages for cellos (and also double basses), lots of divisi.
-The chromatism and accidentals are everywhere. A bar without an accidental is a rarity, a bar with a couple of double flats is the norm. Sharp accidentals perhaps only 20% of accidentals, its flat, flat, flat.
Quote from: eschiss1 on Saturday 25 January 2025, 16:34Did they give a list of movements?
I Mäßig rasch (= Moderately quick)
II Lebhaft (= Lively)
III Adagio ma non troppo
IV Ziemlich lebhaft (= Fairly lively)
https://www.schott-music.com/en/2nd-symphony-d-minor-no575350.html
Thanks!
"Usually they follow the sonata form very closely in the 1st and 4th movements (which makes typesetting easier as the first 30-40 bars of recapitulation are identical to the beginning)." --- is very much a Reger trait also, as against, e.g., Haydn or Beethoven whose recapitulations and codas are - it's often pointed out - further "development"-like. I do have conjectures why Reger's (and perhaps Senfter's) recapitulations are often so much more regular formally...
The issue I have is that Senfter's end-of-movement resolutions seem to come out of the blue, as it were. I find myself so lost in the maelstrom of evolving chromatic processes that I don't sense any logic in the eventual resolution. Maybe it looks right on the page, but it sure doesn't sound right - to my ear anyway.
I think the problem, like in the case of Le Beau, goes deeper than this. There's a crushing lack of necessity to this music; it all plows merrily along but very little of consequence happens and then, as Alan says, it's suddenly all over. It doesn't help that Senfter's orchestration borrows all the worst traits from Reger, with particular apparent hate for the woodwinds.
It might be that her upper-class and very sheltered existence played a role, as I'm convinced it did with Le Beau. But that's certainly not a rule, since we have upper-class women that did possess an individual voice and wrote very worthwhile stuff: Pejacevic and Kralik, to name two.
Look, I don't want to be as despondent as this sounds, and I do feel conflicted about it. The whole point of this forum is to bring attention to under-explored music, after all. But the composer's identity alone isn't enough if the art doesn't live up to the hype; if we don't want the current attention to music by women to be a passing fad, there has to be some kind of long-term qualitative assessment (with all the pitfalls that go along with that). This is not a new problem, by the way; in the past orchestras often played something by the "local guy" which in practice served to affirm the quality of the regular repertoire (and the prolonged exclusion of everything else). I see a lot of attention for women composers, but none of it appears to be gaining any traction in regular programming, and it'd be a shame if disappointment about mediocre works lead to the elimination of the better ones.
Having just been indulging in Reger's violin concerto very recently your remark makes me want to look through the score again with especial attention to details of the orchestration, apologies for the tangent.
Quote from: Ilja on Sunday 26 January 2025, 10:11There's a crushing lack of necessity to this music;
It seems to me that, if the musical 'journey' is a continually evolving chromatic process, then any eventual resolution is almost bound to sound unnecessary.
Quote from: Ilja on Sunday 26 January 2025, 10:11if we don't want the current attention to music by women to be a passing fad, there has to be some kind of long-term qualitative assessment
Objectivity is certainly sadly lacking at present if the comments of BBC Radio 3 presenters or Gramophone reviewers are anything to go by. Almost any work by a woman composer is routinely praised in the most extravagant terms. I recently heard Emilie Mayer's Faust Overture described as a "masterpiece" by a musical journalist whose views I generally respect. Well, it's arguably her best and most individual orchestral work, but it's no better than many a piece by male composers with whom we at UC are familiar. It's frustrating that a spotlight is being focussed on a small segment of unsung composers - women - amazement is being expressed at the quality of the work of some of them and the unjustness of their neglect, when in reality it only illustrates the riches which could be enjoyed if the same attention was also paid to the output of their unsung male counterparts.
Actually, I hadn't thought of the issue with Senfter's music in connection with her being female. I merely thought that the chromaticism was overdone - although I feel somewhat differently about her chamber music. Of course, maybe it's just that she wasn't a very good composer of orchestral music - and she wouldn't be the first of whom that could be said....
Eric, I expressed myself somewhat unfortunately regarding Reger's orchestration. In general, I think it is fine, but it is also very consistent; meaning that he doesn't vary much in his orchestral colouring. With Senfter, who uses very similar forms of expression, I feel that it becomes even more predictable and, honestly, unimaginative. Also, the dynamic plane stays very even within passages, which probably contributes to the lack of resolution that Alan mentioned. I've made a very quick 'n dirty alternative ending to the finale (https://www.mediafire.com/file/58yorby2jiw43n0/Senfter_finale_end.mp3/file) to show how just a little dynamic variation can be used for effect (although you're of course welcome to vehemently disagree).
Yes, it's better, Ilja, but there would have to be similar resolutions at other salient points for this to be anything more than suddenly pulling a euphonious rabbit out of the sludgy chromatic hat.
Oh, absolutely; I was just trying to illustrate a point. A more concise way of putting it would perhaps be that a Reger-esque way of composing requires Reger's talent (or similar). And even then it's rather hit and miss as far as I'm concerned.
Has anyone explored Senfter's chamber music and come to a different opinion about her music?
A good question since there is a CD of her violin works, a (digital?) set of her viola chamber works, and a 2-CD set of assorted chamber music, as well as a recording (LP? 1993) containing a cello sonata (Op.79) and clarinet sonata, and a few other recordings, so there's material to start with for comparison...
I have all of these and, although I'm not always convinced, I do find much that is both satisfying and moving in these works. I'm just not at all sure that her compositional processes transfer well into the complex field of orchestral writing.
Just wanted to add that I agree entirely with the reactions of Alan and Ilja to this symphony. I wanted to enjoy it more than I did, but it's a frustrating work. Luscious and inventive but seemingly devoid of any sense any logic; the beginnings and endings seem sudden and almost random. I couldn't help thinking of Jack Buchanan declaring that "everything stops for tea"! ;)