...a mid-August release in Germany:
https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/cipriani-potter-symphonie-nr-2-b-dur/hnum/11576874
Featuring: Symphonies in C minor (1834) and D major (1833), i.e. Nos. 8 and 7, highlighted in bold, below:
Symphony [No. 1] in G minor (1819, revised 1824–26 & 1833) [styled No. 1 by the composer]
Symphony [No. 2] in B♭ major (1821, revised 1839) [unnumbered by the composer]
Symphony [No. 3] in C minor (1826, revised 1847) [styled No. 6 by the composer]
Symphony [No. 4] in F major (1826) [styled No. 7 by the composer]
Symphony [No. 5] in E♭ major (1828, revised 1846 with replacement slow movement) [styled No. 8 by the composer]
Symphony [No. 6] in G minor (1832) [styled both No. 10 and No. 2 in G minor by the composer]
Symphony [No. 7] in D major (1833) [styled No. 2 in D major by the composer]
Symphony [No. 8] in C minor (1834) [unnumbered by the composer]
Symphony [No. 9] in D major (1834) [styled No. 4 in D major by the composer]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cipriani_Potter
Pity they didn't include the Piano Concerto No.3 as a filler, which is far more superior than the Ricercate
Perhaps that will be included in a later release. I am hoping so.
Quote from: promusician on Friday 18 July 2025, 02:05Pity they didn't include the Piano Concerto No.3
I think the series is pretty generous as it is - adding larger concertante works is likely to have slowed up its release. Cpo may also have had good reason to expect Hyperion to record the PCs...
CPO tends to plan out its series in advance, and these apparently are good sellers, particularly within Germany. The fact that Hyperion might do the PCs would be likely to keep them from engaging in such a project themselves.
I expect they will include as fillers with the other symphonies the duo concertante for violin, piano & orchestra, the remaining two overtures (E minor and "Antony and Cleopatra") and possibly the March - provided these scores are extant. They may omit the Rossini Variations for piano and orchestra, the only remaining concertante work, apart from the E flat concerto, since Hyperion has already recorded that. Whether there would be room for the concerto, or if they are considering it, I don't know. The concerto apart, that would mean all Potter's orchestral music will have been recorded. Whoever would have thought it?
Have either of these been recorded before?
Either of what?
Quote from: Gareth Vaughan on Friday 18 July 2025, 14:53I expect they will include as fillers with the other symphonies the duo concertante for violin, piano & orchestra, the remaining two overtures (E minor and "Antony and Cleopatra") and possibly the March - provided these scores are extant. They may omit the Rossini Variations for piano and orchestra, the only remaining concertante work, apart from the E flat concerto, since Hyperion has already recorded that. Whether there would be room for the concerto, or if they are considering it, I don't know. The concerto apart, that would mean all Potter's orchestral music will have been recorded. Whoever would have thought it?
I have MS of overture in E minor and 'Antony and Cleopatra' from RPS archives, not sure these have ever been recorded..
It's hard to say "no" for certain, but at least I don't see any recordings . (I thought for years that a particular recording of a 1950s symphony was a world premiere only to find out that there was a rare LP of it made around the time of its composition - not impossibly rare, mind. That should have taught me that lesson.)
Also, is the overture to his cantata "Medora e Corrado" (copy held at RAM) on one of these two discs?
Just to clarify: I was referring to the two symphonies in this ,the third cpo volume.
I don't think either appears on the Milton Keynes coupling of the Nos "8" and "10".
Not so sure about whether or not one of them appeared as a coupling with a Sterndale Bennett symphony.
Will check further....
{EDIT} No,that was the one in F major
Couldn't find the overtures on YouTube or on recordings mentioned on the new location of COPAC, either.
My copy has arrived,and I reckon the music is of a higher standard than the symphonies contained in volume two - particularly the D major symphony,the finale of which I am itching to play again after finishing typing here.
BTW now I'm curious about that cantata! :)
Quote from: terry martyn on Wednesday 06 August 2025, 10:45particularly the D major symphony
From the excerpts the D major Symphony would appear to be the more striking symphony on the CD. My copy's on its way...
The C minor symphony is growing on me too.
Four observations about both of them:
1) I don't detect much Beethovian influence;
2) He isn't a composer who particularly favours the woodwind section:
3) Unlike some others, he knows how to write finales;
4)Unlike Lachner, he is concise.
And the Ricercate is a superb entertainment sandwiched between the two Symphonies on this CD.
However, the stand-out item here is the absolutely stunning Symphony in D, stunningly well performed and recording. This is HIP at its best: sparing use of vibrato by the strings, but absolutely no lack of weight - this is the BBCNOW, of course! And then there's Howard Griffiths: is there a conductor to match him for his championing of unsung repertoire? I can't think of anyone. Try his webpage at Presto and keep your wallets out of reach!>>>
https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=howard%20griffiths
Quote from: terry martyn on Friday 08 August 2025, 10:131) I don't detect much Beethovian influence;
I know what you mean; however, I don't think it's possible to listen to Potter without any thought of Beethoven occurring. After all, he did make a deliberate stop in Vienna to visit the great man...
We now have two renditions of the C minor (8th) symphony: this one and this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4YVqLM6f2I&ab_channel=BomCabedal) performed by (I believe) the Ulster Orchestra and Jerzy Maksymiuk. While the sonics of the cpo recording are much more transparent, I have to admit that I also think the orchestral balance is a bit off; the brass is very dominant in the sound image, and even the woodwinds are a tad too prominent for my liking.
Maksymiuk seems to adopt a more lyrical and fleet-footed approach (he's also quicker apart from the Adagio) to the music, which I think suits it better. The differences are striking, and never more so than in the opening bars. But the sound in that recording is very muddy overall (I don't think it was ever released on CD), so that's not ideal either.
I didn't notice any undue prominence of either the winds or brass - in fact I very much enjoyed the punchy orchestral sound, but I realise that reactions to such matters can be very subjective (and, for example, dependent upon one's own audio equipment). FWIW I find Howard Griffiths' approach to HIP highly convincing.
Members have noted above that CPO are unlikely to add the PCs to this Potter series as 'they feel Hyperion are likely to do them'. Really!? It seems to me that 'new' Hyperion releases lately seem to be almost devoid of 'new' romantic pieces (unless I've inadvertently had a sojourn to Mars). Members rightly expressed concerns when Hyperion was sold and it looks as if those concerns were not mis-placed.
Meanwhile, back to the Potter and I think we now have recorded editions of all his symphonies, which I can now listen to in chronological sequence and try and pick out the traits and influences more experienced members frequently comment on.
Cheers
Richard
PS: Do we know what Potter concertante/concerto works exist in performable scores but have not yet been recorded?
I imagine that the cpo series was planned before the sale of Hyperion. Hardly cpo's fault.
Richard, I think that Symphony no 9 in D major in Alan's list is the only one unrecorded to date. But I am sure that cpo has that in the pipeline. Whether it will be matched with the F major (the one that was recorded with a Sterndale Bennett) or with one of the two in the Milton Keynes CD, we shall have to see.
QuotePS: Do we know what Potter concertante/concerto works exist in performable scores but have not yet been recorded?
Apart from the previously mentioned E flat piano concerto, the only concertante work by Potter that is extant and has not been recorded commercially so far, to my knowledge, is:
Duo concertante for piano, violin and orchestra (1827)
The following concertante works (leaving out the 2 piano concertos recorded by Hyperion) are available on CD as follows:
Bravura Variations on a theme by Rossini for piano and orchestra (1829) [Hyperion - coupled with the PCs in D minor and E major respectively]
Introduction and Rondo Alla Militaire for piano and orchestra (1827) [CPO - Potter: Symphonies, Vol. 1]
Concertante for violin, cello, double bass, piano and orchestra on Les folies d'Espagne [CPO - Potter: Symphonies, Vol. 2]
Ricercate, on a favourite French theme for piano and orchestra (1830) [CPO - Potter: Symphonies, Vol. 3]
Incidentally, I have it on good authority that Universal has suspended (or, indeed, cancelled altogether - as I suspect is more likely) the Hyperion RPC series.
Thanks, Gareth, for clearing up the situation. Very good of you. And with regard to Hyperion, desperately sad, but utterly predictable.
The symphony that can be found here (https://youtu.be/HBB2I2Lkf1E?si=Hs85SneEglTha90M) presented as being N°7 in D is different from the one on cpo vol.3. Which one is N°7, which one is N°9?
The one on YouTube is No.9, according to the first post in this thread. If you refer to the video description, you'll see how confused the numbering has been. We are sticking with the chronology in the first post as previous chronologies have proved defective.
This, then, is the current situation in respect of the cpo cycle, leaving four symphonies still to be released:
Symphony [No. 1] in G minor (1819, revised 1824–26 & 1833) [styled No. 1 by the composer] (cpo vol.1)
Symphony [No. 2] in B♭ major (1821, revised 1839) [unnumbered by the composer] (cpo vol.2)
Symphony [No. 3] in C minor (1826, revised 1847) [styled No. 6 by the composer] (cpo vol.2)
Symphony [No. 4] in F major (1826) [styled No. 7 by the composer]
Symphony [No. 5] in E♭ major (1828, revised 1846 with replacement slow movement) [styled No. 8 by the composer]
Symphony [No. 6] in G minor (1832) [styled both No. 10 and No. 2 in G minor by the composer]
Symphony [No. 7] in D major (1833) [styled No. 2 in D major by the composer] (cpo vol.3)
Symphony [No. 8] in C minor (1834) [unnumbered by the composer] (cpo vol.3)
Symphony [No. 9] in D major (1834) [styled No. 4 in D major by the composer]
Thank you for the clarification. So all 9 symphonies are available somewhere, either on CD or on youtube.
Thank you all for your interesting, informative and, as per usual, well-informed updates - much appreciated. So sad about RPC (RIP)!
Cheers
Richard
Quote from: jdperdrix on Saturday 16 August 2025, 08:20So all 9 symphonies are available
Well, it appears that Howard Griffiths has been preparing updated/revised scores of some of the symphonies, so it's not clear to me exactly how they compare with existing recordings (where there's overlap, that is). It's possible, therefore, that he will also have worked on the scores of the as yet unreleased symphonies. Unfortunately, I'm not sufficiently expert to be able to clarify what he has done.
Here is a short review by the great chronicler of British symphonism, Jürgen Schaarwächter:
https://www.britishmusicsociety.co.uk/2025/08/cipriani-potter-complete-symphonies-vol-3/
Thanks - a decent review of the music, but his numbering of the symphonies (an issue deliberately dropped by cpo) remains annoyingly confused. Still, it's good to have the opinion of one so knowledgeable.