Unsung Composers

Dear all,
this is my first post ever on the forum, which I recently discovered.
Before I start compiling this tribute post to the German cellist J. J. F. Dotzauer, could you please tell me what I should/should not write? From other posts I browsed, it seems I could add either of the following:

• a biography of the composer, including curiosities about the false news surrounding him
• a list of most notable works, focusing on the damage done to his reputation by several editors after his death
• since Dotzauer is the main focus of my editorial work, a list of available new editions, YouTube videos with scrolling scores I created, blog posts, free excerpts, and more...

Anything else?
There are a few recordings, perhaps 2-3, but nothing major—and I hope adding him here may help this change.

Kindly let me know how best to proceed. Especially, if I would be uploading links and/or files, please let me know what is not allowed.
Thank you so much for having me onboard!

Hello, and welcome. Everything you suggest would be most welcome and interesting. Uploading files direct to our site is not possible, but if you go to our Downloads Board you'll see that members upload to a hosting site (many of us use mediafire,com) and then link to the file there. No uploads of any commercial or otherwise copyrighted material, of course.

Thank you, Mark!
I will start with the biography, perhaps in several separated messages so that it is easier to consume.
The full blog post can be found Dotzauer's Life and Work (https://artisticscoreengraving.com/2025/06/20/the-master-of-us-all/).

Here is the first section, with an introduction listing the sources and the first part on Dotzauer's Early Life and Musical Training. Enjoy! Originally published on June 20th, 2025.

The Master of us all
Celebrating the life and works of Justus Johann Friedrich Dotzauer
To honour Dotzauer's 242nd birthday today (2025/06/20), I am publishing an as thorough as possible biography of the life of this beloved master of the cello. This aims to be one of the most comprehensive resources on Dotzauer's life in the English language. As one could expect, most material on Dotzauer is in German language, and I have done my best to translate, paraphrase, and adapt the existing sources for modern reading and enjoyment.
Here are the main sources used for writing this article:

• Brückner, Georg. "Dotzauer, Friedrich." In: Allgemeine Deutsche Biographie, Vol. 5 (1877), pp. 365–366. Historische Kommission bei der Bayerischen Akademie der Wissenschaften. Wikisource Link
• Beer, Axel & Krause, Bernd. "Dotzauer, Justus Johann Friedrich." MGG — Die Musik in Geschichte und Gegenwart, Vol. 3 (2002), pp. 1338–1342. Bärenreiter-Verlag.
• Wagner, Erich. "Dotzauer." In: Bedeutende Männer aus Thüringer Pfarrhäusern, Berlin: Evang. Verl.-Anst., 1957; Dresden: SLUB, 2018; pp. 88–93.
• Allgemeine Musikalische Zeitung (various issues, 1805–1860).

Early Life and Musical Training
Justus Johann Friedrich Dotzauer was born at around half past nine in the morning on the 20th of June 1783 in Häselrieth, near Hildburghausen in today's Turingia, Germany. Third son of the local pastor, Justus Johann Georg and his wife Elisabetha Margaretha, born Großmann from Harras, J. J. Friedrich was baptised two days later during the afternoon service on St. John's day, at the presence of three godparents: the maternal grandfather Johann Nicol Großmann, the commissary Christiana Hennerietta Lettermann from Hildburghausen, and Johann Georg Henne, Georg's brother-in-law, court and country organ builder in Hildburghausen.
Music was pursued enthusiastically in his father's house; after all, the figure of a Protestant pastor was difficult to imagine without serious music cultivation. The musical talents of the young Dotzauer soon became evident, prompting his parents to use all their means to nurture them. This meant giving him a solid general music education to begin with. He went on to live with his uncle, J. G. Henne, in the near Hildburghausen. There, the Court Chapel members Johann Andreas Gleichmann (1775–1842) and Johann Peter Heuschkel (1773–1853) —who was also the piano teacher of Carl Maria von Weber—taught him to play the piano and the violin. Later on, he received lessons in composition from Johann Caspar Rüttinger (1761–1830), a student of Johann Christian Kittels (1732–1809) who, in turn, had been a direct student of Johann Sebastian Bach (1685–1750)—Bach's influence can be clearly seen—and heard—in most of Dotzauer's compositions where counterpoint is the absolute protagonist. He also learnt how to play the French horn and the clarinet—the first of which would receive a now lost double concerto for two horns and orchestra, while the second would get a Divertimento for clarinet and orchestra, Op. 68).
It would be thanks to the town's blacksmith—it has not yet been possible to gather enough information on his identity—, a skilled double-bassist, though, that the young Friedrich would develop his interest in the lower string instruments. He learned the basics of the double-bass from the blacksmith and then received his first cello lessons from Hildburghausen's court trumpet player Paul Heßner (? – ?) around 1793. He later said that, among all the string instruments, the violoncello evoked for him the unforgettable, soulful alto voice of his beloved mother, prompting him to devote himself exclusively to this instrument. Dotzauer's dedication and talent were so great that, already after one year of practice, he gave a public concert with the local orchestra. Such skills would not go unnoticed for long, prompting Johann Jacob Kriegck (1750–1814), a respected cellist, student of Jean-Louis Duport (1749–1819) in Paris (1774), and ducal concertmaster in Meiningen, to accept him in his class from 1799. Dotzauer would always nurture a tremendous respect and devotion for Duport's teachings, mentioning him several times in his first Violoncello School, Op. 65 (1824).

End of First Part!

PART 2
First professional experiences
In 1801, the then 18-year-old Dotzauer obtained his first employment as cellist at the Coburg Hofkapelle^1, under the baton of Georg Laurenz Schneider (1766–1855)—the founder of the Hofkapelle in Hildburghausen. By the end of 1805, he became a permanent member of the Gewandhausorchester in Leipzig, thanks in no small part to the mediation of the publisher Ambrosius Kühnel (1781–1813)^2. In Leipzig, Dotzauer shaped his musicianship, receiving growing appreciation as a composer both from the audience and from the critics. His reputation must have preceded him there, though, since the reviewer of the Leipziger Allgemeine Musikalischer Zeitung (AMZ) felt compelled to congratulate the orchestra on his employment:

QuoteMr. D. is an excellent player: his tone is secure, definite, pure and always pleasant; his delivery extremely engaging, fine and delicate; His skill is significant..., he is committed as a permanent member of our orchestra, which has made a real acquisition of him^3.

Together with violinist Heinrich August Matthäi (1781–1835) and Bartolomeo Campagnoli (1751–1827)—the two concertmasters of the Gewandhausorchester—, and the violist/cellist/organist Johann Georg Hermann Voigt (1769–1811)^4, he established the Gewandhaus–Quartett, a string quartet ensemble that is still active to this day.
During a visit to Berlin in 1806, Dotzauer had the chance to get in closer con-tact with Bernhard Romberg (1767–1841), the leading German cellist of the time, and whose playing and compositions would influence him for the rest of his life. In a letter to the publisher Kühnel^5, several years later, he would refer as to having met "his God" in Romberg. This meeting seems to have shaken Dotzauer deeply, convincing him that what he had achieved so far was not enough, and prompting him to take a six-months-long vacation to further perfect himself. Now, sources do not agree on whether he actually studied with Romberg or he simply took time off to practice by himself. The AMZ (1806, No. 14) mentions "his stay with Romberg in Berlin" but the most authoritative source on the Romberg family doesn't list Dotzauer among Bernhard's students. The entry in the MGG encyclopaedia even men-tions Romberg refusing to take Dotzauer on as a student, given his already ad-vanced level. If we analyse Dotzauer's playing style and pedagogical output, we can lean towards Romberg certainly exerting an enormous influence on the younger cellist, perhaps even allowing Dotzauer to play for him, without although ever becoming his long-term teacher. What we know is that Dotzauer mastered and performed most of Romberg's output for the cello, therefore strengthening and refining his playing and readying to become "a cellist, as there are now only a few"^6.
From an 1808 note in the AMZ, we can deduce that Dotzauer declined several calls to other cities:

QuoteMay he also always remain faithful to us and not long for larger places where he would probably find more external advantages, but would certain-ly also be more distracted by the confusion and less noticed because of the competition^7.

During 1808, he would marry Johanne Christiana Kreße (1784–1861) and his first child, Justus Bernhard Friedrich (1808–1874), would be born. He remained in Leipzig for three more years but, when the Dresden Hofkapelle called in 1811, he could not refuse. It was not easy for him to leave Leipzig, especially for personal reasons, but, as a true artist, he had to strive to expand his sphere of influence and gain new experiences. We can assume that it was not "external advantages", but rather higher considerations that were decisive in his decision; "competition" is essential for an artist to prevent him from growing satisfied with what he has achieved and, therefore, declining. In the report on the farewell concert that Dotzauer gave, the pride of Leipzig's musical circles to have been able to count such a gifted artist among their own shines through once again:

QuoteMr. D. came to us several years ago as a very young man, who already showed unmistakable talent and a thorough education for music in general, but particularly distinguished himself as a very accomplished, expressive and engaging cellist; and soon, through these artistic advantages, as well as through his respectable character as a human being, he earned an ex-cellent reputation from everyone who got to know him... So, as much as we begrudge his possession to the art-loving Dresden... we must, at the same time, sincerely mourn his loss because, both as a concert– and even more so as a quartet–player, Mr. D. will be very difficult to replace^8.

End of Part 2

^1 Early sources refer to him playing in the Meiningen orchestra, but this is incorrect.
^2 He would be crucial in the publication of some of the earliest works by Dotzauer, namely his Op. 2, 10, 17, and 19.
^3 Allgemeine Musikalischer Zeitung January 1806 No. 15
^4 His son, Carl Ludwig (1792–1831), would study cello with Dotzauer and take his place in the Gewandhaus Orchestra when Dotzauer moved to Dresden in 1809-10.
^5 Dresden, December 18, 1811. Leipzig Saxon State Archive, Bestand Musikverlag C. F. Peters 495.
^6 AMZ, ibidem.
^7 AMZ, 1808 No. 31
^8 AMZ, 1811 No. 13

PART 3
Moving to Dresden
Dotzauer would leave the city to which he would "owe all his fortunes"^1 and move to Dresden in the first months of 1811 to work for the Hofkapelle. He would become principal cellist in 1821^2 and keep that role until his retirement in 1852. Already in his first year there, he would help manage a "Quartet-Akademie", dedicated mainly to the works of Haydn, Mozart, and Romberg, and that would become a stable institution in the city's musical life.
In Dresden, Dotzauer experienced his most florid period, receiving the title of Royal Saxon Chamber Musician, and reaching his highest level of mastery. He made his name famous through performances both domestically and abroad, where he was unanimously celebrated—especially in Prague, where he would be a regular guest. He was also able to witness important events in the history of Ger-man opera, playing under the baton of Carl Maria von Weber (1786–1826), Hein-rich August Marschner (1795–1861), Carl Gottlieb Reißiger (1798–1859), and Richard Wagner (1813–1883). We can rightly assume that he participated in the premieres of Rienzi (1842), The Flying Dutchman (1843), and Tannhäuser (1845).
In December 1811, his second child would be born, Karl Ludwig (1811–1897), and he would regularly organise and play in concerts with both his sons. He died in Dresden on March 6th, 1860, and I would like to share an obituary notice from the morning edition of the Stettiner Zeitung^3:

QuoteScience, art and literature
On March 9th, the musician J. J. F. Dotzauer, who died there on March 6th, was buried in Dresden. He was one of the most excellent violoncellists of his time, and no less famous as a composer and teacher of this instru-ment. Dotzauer was born on June 20, 1783, in Hässelrieth [sic] near Hildburghausen and was appointed to Dresden in 1811. He wrote an opera, 'Graciosa', five masses, a symphony and also around 180 works for his instrument.

^1: Letter to Kühnel, Dresden, April 16, 1811, ibidem.
^2: Certain sources state that he would be appointed principal cellist already in 1811, but this ap-pears to be incorrect.
^3: This was the most important daily newspaper in the Pomerania region, published between 1755 and 1910. This entry is from the Morgen–Ausgabe Jg. 105, No. 141 from March 23, 1860.

PART 4
Dotzauer's Playing Style
Browsing the relevant reviews in the Allgemeine Musikalischer Zeitung, we can see how they almost unanimously say that, in Dotzauer, we are seeing one of the most important cellists of the last century. They praise his perfect technical mastery of the cello and his beautiful singing tone in the cantilena. At the same time, Dotzauer's playing was characterised by grace and composure. Still, at the beginning, critics wished that he had even more of "what the current artistic language calls great playing"^1. While we encounter certain less favourable assessments, they should be considered isolated, and he was particularly appreciated as a quartet player. For Dotzauer, virtuosity and brilliant playing were never an end in themselves.
Students & Legacy
Dotzauer's firstborn son, Bernhard, would grow to become an accomplished pianist—also writing interesting pedagogical works—and serve in Hamburg from 1828 until his death in 1874. He received the title of Ducal Saxon-Altenburg Chamber Musician and, curiously, was also a skilled conchologist!
Among Dotzauer's many cello students, we can list:

• His son Karl Ludwig, who would be invited by Louis Spohr (1784–1859) to be principal cellist of the orchestra in Kassel.
• Karl Ludwig Voigt (1792–1831), one of the few known students of Dotzauer in Leipzig, he would take his master's place there and in the Gewandhaus Quartet after 1811. He left compelling pedagogical works, still unpublished to this day.
• Friedrich August Kummer (1797–1879), another main pillar of the Dresden Cello School, he would join the Dresden orchestra (as an oboist first!) and would eventually take Dotzauer's place as principal cellist in 1852. Let's just imagine for a moment that first cello desk in the Dresden Orchestra with the gift of hindsight...
• Carl Drechsler (1800–1873), principal cellist in Dessau from 1826.
• Carl Eduard Schuberth (1811–1863), a most skilled and flamboyant artist, he would move to St. Petersburg to effectively found the Russian Cello School, his most famous student being Karl Davydov (1838–1889).

   
Something we usually tend to forget is that no public music school existed at the time. Even the Hochschüle für Musik "C. M. von Weber" in Dresden opened as a private institution in 1856 before eventually going public. All these students, thus, took private lessons from Dotzauer and—some sources say—even lived under their teacher's roof during their apprenticeship. This is not difficult to believe if we compare music making to any other artisanal craft, such as painting and sculpting, where young apprentices lived in their masters' studios.
Dotzauer's legacy can be seen from the genealogical tree of the Dresden Cello School:
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rv740a7vyga0jbqeumeik/Dresden-Cello-School_v3.pdf?rlkey=3mr03w9tvvr61plavuajl9vgo&st=6b45c0sv&dl=0)
From Kummer, we would get to Cossmann, Goltermann (the one of the famous concerto in G major), the other Goltermann who taught Popper, to Starker! From Drechsler we would get to Grützmacher, then Becker, Mainardi, Selmi on one side and Klengel, Pleeth, Feuermann, Du Pré on the other. From Schuberth we would get to Davydov and Piatigorsky and, through Davydov's student von Glehn, to Rostropovich, Maisky, and Gutmann.

^1: AMZ, 1806 No. 27.

Was Carl Schuberth a sibling or other close relative of publisher Julius Schuberth?

He was his brother. Julius published a nunber of works as the work of brother Carl, but actually composed by other musicians, amongst whom was Raff.

Ok, that's disturbing as we at IMSLP have a list of compositions by Carl Schuberth and now I'm wondering how many of those works are _by_ Carl Schuberth...

I can help you a little with that, Eric, but I'm away from home at present. Give me a week or so...

Quote from: Mark Thomas on Monday 15 September 2025, 21:19He was his brother. Julius published a nunber of works as the work of brother Carl, but actually composed by other musicians, amongst whom was Raff.

That's very interesting to hear. Could you please reveal the source of your info?
Since the main focus of my publishing initiative is around Dotzauer and the Dresden Cello School, I have also started to publish works by Carl Eduard Schuberth. A sample here:
The reason why I expanded from Dotzauer was because a direct descendant of Carl Eduard contacted me. He shared his research on his ancestor (which he is also planning to publish) and it is quite impressive. I know this to be genuine because he shared the entire family tree with precise details.
Nevertheless, he never mentioned that Julius (Carl Eduard's brother) published music by other authors under his brother's name so it would be nice if you could share the source of this assumption.

Thank you so much!

My sources are twofold. Firstly my own research into Raff's compositions for the Raff Catalogue published by Edition Nordstern (https://www.raff.org/shop/werkverzeichnis.html) a few years ago. Secondly, I too was contacted some years ago by a gentleman interested in Carl Schuberth's compositions, and my memory of the correspondence is that we discussed the question of works by others published under his name. He may be the same person with whom you've been in contact. In any event, as I mentioned, I'm away from home for a further week before I can check whether my memory is playing tricks, so bear with me please.

That's good, Mark Thomas, thank you very much!
I will wait patiently.
All the best.

Checking with my catalogue of Raff's music, here's the details of four of Raff's arrangements of piano pieces by Vollweiler and Henselt which were subsequently published by Julius Schuberth as the work of his brother Carl;

Raff's arrangements, made in 1849 whilst he was briefly working for Julius Schuberth, for violin/cello & piano of Vollweiler's Elégie en Forme de Marche funèbre Op.11 and of Henselt's Romance et Nocturne (La Fontaine) were published by Julius Schuberth in 1855 as Carl Schuberth's Dodécaméron: Morceaux de Salon pour Violon avec Pianoforte Nos.10 and 11 and Transcriptions pour Violoncello avec Pianoforte No.6 and Souvenirs de Henselt. Transcriptions pour Violoncello avec Pianoforte No.4. .

In 1859 Julius Schuberth wrote to Raff suggesting he make an arrangement of his Violin Sonata No.1 for cello and piano, to be published as the work of Charles Schuberth. Raff decided the idea had no merit.

Clearly, the Schuberths were not above fleshing out Carl's catalogue with at least arrangements which weren't his own.

I've inserted that clarification in Carl Schuberth's IMSLP worklist - if anyone knows if any of the other works in Dodecameron were actually made by other composers, hope they can add that information too. Thank you.

This is both interesting and disconcerting.
I will write to Mr Schuberth to see if he is aware of this.

Could you kindly share the name of the source of this? Were these letters between Julius S. and Raff? Or AMZ (or similar) articles? Or something else?

I'll check the sources and get back to you.

  I don't mean to veer from the specific direction this topic has taken, but, since it began, I've had the same pressing question: Is anyone else surprised, even disappointed, that not even 1 of Dotzauers 9 Cello Concertos has been revived or recorded? This thread also enticed me to relisten to the fine Toccata Classics release of his Chamber Works. To me, his music has genuine elegance and substance. I really like it, and I would love to hear more. To that end, would anyone here be interested enough to investigate the state of that corner of his repertoire? It would be exciting if that activity would stimulate more interest in his composition. Of course, if this post needs to be separated , that is fine.

No, it's a good point, and my fault for allowing the topic to "veer from the soecific direction", as you so rightly put it.

I hope the Toccata Classics release had a "vol.1" attached; he wrote quite a few string quartets (usually, from what little I know, brilliant quartets with cello leading rather than first violin) and other works, and I am intrigued by what I've seen of them from scores and parts at IMSLP. Definitely an under-recorded composer generally.

Quote from: EarlyRomantic on Wednesday 17 September 2025, 20:47I don't mean to veer from the specific direction this topic has taken, but, since it began, I've had the same pressing question: Is anyone else surprised, even disappointed, that not even 1 of Dotzauers 9 Cello Concertos has been revived or recorded? This thread also enticed me to relisten to the fine Toccata Classics release of his Chamber Works. To me, his music has genuine elegance and substance. I really like it, and I would love to hear more. To that end, would anyone here be interested enough to investigate the state of that corner of his repertoire? It would be exciting if that activity would stimulate more interest in his composition. Of course, if this post needs to be separated , that is fine.

As someone who made his goal to republish the Opera Omnia of Dotzauer, I am certainly disappointed, especially when his concert pieces are so well written. To be 100% fair, his developments and codas often lack inspiration (but who among second-rate composers truly has a Beethoven-level one?!), but his thematic ideas and his techniques were absolutely flawless. A counterpoint and canonic expert once told me how impressed he was with Dotzauer's contrapuntal technique.
Concerning recordings, it would be perhaps better to start a new thread about recordings of Dotzauer's music, which I will do after I complete this biographical thread. The Toccata Classics you mentioned is probably the one containing 2 of the 3 flute quartets and the only oboe quartet, right? Publisher 2018 and played by Ensemble Pyramide. His most recorded piece must be the Pot-pourri for Guitar and Cello, Op. 21, and there are several other recordings of single titles on Apple Music Classical at least. I would certainly be interested in investigating this more because this could also help me decide what to publish first.
For the concertos, there is a single, big problem: money! First, you need to find a soloist who wants to invest into learning a new, quite challenging piece. Second, you need to find an impresario willing to schedule it and to risk a date where people may not buy tickets, let alone CDs! So, unless a foundation supports this kind of work, or one manages to befriend someone from the commissions who organise International Competitions—see Kraft's concerto and the upcoming Queen Elizabeth competition—, I see it very unlikely to ever succeed.
For every edition I've published there is an associated video on YouTube, played by the computer with little editing to slightly humanise it. Here is a basic list of what is available in chamber music:
12 Pieces for Two Cellos Op 58:
24 Exercises for Two Cellos Op 159:
12 Pieces for Two Cellos Op 52:
12 Pieces for Two Cellos Op 156 (containing National Airs & Fugues):
12 Pieces for Two Cellos Op 63:
Aria Russa with 20 Variations for 2 cellos:
Two String Quartets op 12 (the first two he wrote out of 24-25):
Pot-pourri for Cello and Guitar Op 21:
6 Waltzes for Piano Four-hands, Op 17:
Trio for Piano, Violin, and Violoncello, Op. 180 (dedicated to his son Bernhard, a virtuoso pianist and himself a composer about whom very little can be found because search engines only find his father!). I think this is a masterpiece!
First movement:
Second movement:
Third movement:
Fourth movement:
Three Easy Sonatas for Two Cellos, Op. 104:
Six Songs for Voice and Guitar, Op. 18:

Let me know what you think of this!

Quote from: eschiss1 on Thursday 18 September 2025, 00:55I hope the Toccata Classics release had a "vol.1" attached; he wrote quite a few string quartets (usually, from what little I know, brilliant quartets with cello leading rather than first violin) and other works, and I am intrigued by what I've seen of them from scores and parts at IMSLP. Definitely an under-recorded composer generally.

Judging from the number of purchases of the first edition of string quartets I have gotten in the last month alone, I would not be surprised if at least one recording would surface in the next 12 months. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

"who among second-rate composers truly has a Beethoven-level one?"

Wilhelm Stenhammar. -Quite- a few times. Next question?

I see that Stenhammar was born after Dotzauer died.
I would not compare composers so far from each other. Dotzauer didn't have the chance to absorb too much Beethoven before his more mature compositions, while Stenhammar (and others) had everything available from Day 1.

But arguably, too much. Dotzauer's world was much a simpler one than Stenhammar's, in which numerous influences vied for priority. 

If you want to reframe your question, best to do so before, not after receiving an answer...

Quote from: eschiss1 on Wednesday 24 September 2025, 02:43If you want to reframe your question, best to do so before, not after receiving an answer...

I do not understand the reason behind this hostile tone, frankly.
We are not here to defend any specific composer or to frame them as better/worse than any other. Rather, we should provide historically proven facts so that these people are not forgotten. At least, that is why I am here. I am not going to enter into any feud.

Quote from: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 17 September 2025, 20:34I'll check the sources and get back to you.

I have heard back from Mr Schuberth who mentioned having been in touch with you on the topic of Raff's supposed arrangements. From the sources, the quick picture you painted above of Julius & Carl E. Schuberth being little more than thieves of Raff's music seems to be inaccurate. The story is a complex and nuanced one and this is neither a topic about Schuberth (either the composer/cellist or the publishing house) nor about Raff.
The fact that after you mentioned this @eschiss1 immediately went to IMSLP to add unverified info on C. Schuberth's page is unhelpful—if not potentially damaging. Writing "possibly arranged by" would have been more sensible. I kindly request that this is corrected, unless you want to add specific sources of your claim to the IMSLP page.

My statement was not hostile, and stands.

As to the rest: To quote raff.org (https://www.raff.org/catalogue/catalogue_chamber.html#c&p) (quoting "The Music of Joachim
Raff: An Illustrated Catalogue by Mark Thomas, Edition Nordstern, 2021."):
"Souvenirs de Henselt. Romance et Nocturne (La Fontaine) [Memories of Henselt. Romance and Nocturne (The Fountain)] WoO.9D (1849).
Published: 1855, Schuberth, as the work of the publisher's brother Carl Schuberth. Arrangement of Henselt's original piano pieces at the request of the publisher. Also arranged for violin & piano."
Nothing was said about thievery. Composers used pseudonyms all the time, even pseudonyms that belonged to living other people. However, I will remove it tentatively. (I am assuming you have chosen - on principle?, like some other people on this site, not to create an account on IMSLP, or you could remove them yourself.)

Quote from: MG_ASE on Wednesday 24 September 2025, 09:50

Quote from: Mark Thomas on Wednesday 17 September 2025, 20:34I'll check the sources and get back to you.

I have heard back from Mr Schuberth who mentioned having been in touch with you on the topic of Raff's supposed arrangements. From the sources, the quick picture you painted above of Julius & Carl E. Schuberth being little more than thieves of Raff's music seems to be inaccurate. The story is a complex and nuanced one and this is neither a topic about Schuberth (either the composer/cellist or the publishing house) nor about Raff.
The fact that after you mentioned this @eschiss1 immediately went to IMSLP to add unverified info on C. Schuberth's page is unhelpful—if not potentially damaging. Writing "possibly arranged by" would have been more sensible. I kindly request that this is corrected, unless you want to add specific sources of your claim to the IMSLP page.

Frankly, you need to moderate your language and be more respectful to your fellow members. Eric has spoken for himself. In my case I made it clear that I was writing from memory and suggested that you wait for my return so that I could check my sources. You replied that you would "wait patiently" but you haven't done that. Suggesting that I implied that Julius and Carl Schuberth were "little more than thieves" is absolutely ridiculous hyperbole, I did no such thing and had you waited patiently I would have explained to you the circumstances under which Raff's arrangements were published as by Carl Schuberth. Now that I'm back home, I will get back to you in my own good time, and suggest that you focus on Dotzauer in the meantime

Dear all,
I believe things took a completely wrong turn here, mainly between posts #6-#9 and #22+.
I apologise if my (non-native) English offended you, Mark. Please accept that this was never my intention. I misread the tone of your initial post (#7) as just a desire to accuse Carl & Julius Schuberth of dishonest practices, which I am glad you clarified neither being the case nor being your intention.

It was never my intention to lack in respect towards other people and if you can point out specific parts of my posts where this is evident, I will gladly make amend for that. Please also understand that I felt attacked and I reacted in defence.
All I wanted to do was to write about Dotzauer and I would have kept doing so if this post had not been hijacked in another direction. I am sure a separate post about the relationship between Carl Schuberth & Joachim Raff would have been more appropriate (and can still be useful, I think).

At the same time, I found Eric's reply hostile in tone, and I would have appreciated an apology as well. His reply keeps trying to be provocative and I can do nothing else than avoid falling in the reaction trap once again.

Thank you everyone for your understanding and, again, my apologies to those who felt offended by my words.
I wish you understood how I felt as well, but perhaps that is too much.
As you suggested, back to Dotzauer.

If I play peacemaker here, I do believe some turns of phrase and well-intended words, be they critical or simply observant, can be lost in translation in written communication - no doubt redoubled due to English not being everyone's first language.

I'm sure - if this had been an in-person, face-to-face forum - we would not have found ourselves where we are.

For these reasons, I don't believe anyone needs to apologise, as nobody sought to offend anyone else as it is a simple miscommunication/misunderstanding.

Both Dotzauer and the Schuberths deserve our attention, for different reasons, so let's get back to focusing on them as individual entities for now.

Wishing everyone all the best.

Fair enough. As you say, back to Dotzauer.

I have been following this thread with both interest and puzzlement.

Thank you,MG_ASE, for introducing me to Dotzauer. Your research has been fascinating and I hope it eventually leads to recordings.

You say that you are doing important work on the Schuberths and I would like to hear a lot more about them,perhaps in a separate thread. They were contemporaries of Lindpaintner and (Heinrich) Baermann,who have been attributed by musicologists to one and the same clarinet concerto (I know this for a fact,as I have an LP of the Lindpaintner ,played by Klocker, and a CD of the identical Baermann,played,naturellement, by Klocker,with different orchestras involved)..

Quote from: terry martyn on Thursday 25 September 2025, 11:00Thank you,MG_ASE, for introducing me to Dotzauer. Your research has been fascinating and I hope it eventually leads to recordings.

You say that you are doing important work on the Schuberths and I would like to hear a lot more about them,perhaps in a separate thread. They were contemporaries of Lindpaintner and (Heinrich) Baermann,who have been attributed by musicologists to one and the same clarinet concerto (I know this for a fact,as I have an LP of the Lindpaintner ,played by Klocker, and a CD of the identical Baermann,played,naturellement, by Klocker,with different orchestras involved)..

Hi Terry, thank you for your kind words.
After I finish this I could try a post on the Schuberths but I am very far from being an expert on them and since we have a descendant who is researching a lot on them, I would possibly ask for their support in this.
Plenty of interesting personalities at the time, especially in St. Petersburg.

PART 5
Compositions
Being a composer at the time was not something extraordinary as it may be today: every single musician received a thorough and rigid training in harmony, counterpoint, and formal writing. Dotzauer's early formation blossomed in a most fruitful career as a composer, appreciated throughout his life^1. In the foreground we clearly have his immense catalogue of cello works: four schools, nine concertos, three concertinos, two-hundred-and-fifty solo études, three-hundred-and-thirty duets, several solo works. His chamber music was greatly appreciated by his contemporaries, reminiscent of Haydn in the beginning (in the first string quartets), and anticipating Schumann or even Brahms towards the end (in the piano trio). He wrote more than twenty string quartets, corresponding in the form to the four movement classical structure, with large-scale sonata-form movements and densely elaborated developments. Stylistically, they can be approached to Spohr's production. What is worthy to mention is his careful elaboration of voice leading, where the first violin and the cello do not have prominent roles compared to the other voices.
Of his major orchestral works, most sadly lost nowadays, we count a Grosse Symphonie in d-moll to which the AMZ dedicates a four-page review^2, at least one Overture, five Masses, and the opera "Graciosa", based on the drama "Hedwig, the Bandit Bride" by Theodor Körner. This work, which had its premiere on November 2, 1840, in Dresden, achieved a respectable success, but proved to be unviable and was removed from the program after a few performances.
Although most of his works are rarely played today, it is clear how he tirelessly strived to find new ways of using his instrument. Working against the lack of variety in existing study material, he succeeded in making this genre more interesting and pleasing by paying greater attention to melody and harmony—Bach's influence through his training with Rüttinger can be felt throughout his production. In his material, Dotzauer proves himself a systematic pedagogue who doesn't merely aims at creating the best virtuosos, but rather providing them with a complete and fundamental training of the highest standards of his time. That's why his production still forms the indispensable backbone of practice for every cellist who takes his art seriously.
He had plenty of opportunities to demonstrate these principles in his regular compositions, including several variations which—following the trend of the 1820s—mostly used themes of famous operas. His high level of "performing culture"^3 is evident in his works for cello and orchestra where the soloist part, while certainly being challenging, it is never prohibitively difficult and results in spectacular fireworks that are literally composed for the instrument.

QuoteThe practicality and the delightful, these two considerations that this composer always unites and the precise knowledge of his instrument make his works equally appreciated by students and amateurs^4.

The sources mention how, until today, a detailed study of his whole output did not exist, and how deplorable it is that almost no one of his concert pieces are part of the current repertoire, let alone being available in practical editions. That's what the Dotzauer Project page (https://artisticscoreengraving.com/publications/dotzauer-project/) is about, and it is my life goal to keep promoting Dotzauer's music so that it regains the stages where it rightly belongs.

^1 Most if not all reviews of his compositions contain, beside the praises, the phrase "as we would expect from him" in some form, showing to what high standard Dotzauer had spoiled his audience with.
^2 AMZ 1838, No. 20.
^3 MGG, see reference above in previous posts.
^4 AMZ, 1840 No. 51.