The best solution to the 'Finale Problem'

[Peter1953]

I fully agree with Ilja. And Hol's Nos. 1, 3 & 4 aren't bad either..!
Apart from Hol I like to nominate another unsung work, and that is Ryelandt 4. The finale definitely completes this marvellous symphony. One of these days I'll start a topic on Ryelandt. He is just great, but sooooo unsung.

[petershott@btinternet.com]

I've developed the habit, Peter, of regarding your recommendations with the seriousness they deserve!

Heartily agree with you about Ryelandt. On the basis of the works that I do know (Symphony 4, the stately and gracious oratorio 'Agnes' with a rather good recording on Marco Polo, the Piano Quintet and String Quartet on a Phaedra disc) I'd say that Ryelandt is a splendid composer. I gather there are five symphonies, more chamber works, and quite a few choral works. I'd like to hear more of him. But, oops, I'm quite off thread here!

[Biarent]

I think Magnard's Fourth has a wonderfully satisfying finale.  I also love the finale from Staehle's only symphony as well as Biarent's only symphony.  Both d'Indy's Second and Elgar's First have very powerful finales that bring everything full circle really well.  Also the Fifth Symphonies of Stanford and Parry have really strong closing movements.  The coda in the Stanford shows him making a rare escape from the shadow of Brahms, while the whole of Parry's Fifth shows Parry with his own voice without any hint of Brahms.  Finally, the prize must go to Atterburg for the finale of his Third symphony, which is one of the most amazing symphonic movements ever written.

[FBerwald]

Here are a few of the 'Finales' that are convincing.

Berwald - Symphony No 3 (Singulare),
Glazunov - Symphony No. 5
Scharwenka - Piano concerto No 4 [the brilliant tarantella finale].
De Greef - Piano Concerto No. 1
Stojowski - Piano concerto No 2 [very unusual but still convincing to my ear! ]
Prokofiev - Piano concerto No. 3
Borodin - Symphony No 1, 2

[jerfilm]

 Moszkowski Piano Concerto for sure

And not very unsung but hard to exclude the Mahler 8th

Jerry

[Alan Howe]

May I just suggest that we don't turn this thread into a list of 'my favourite finales'. After all, the 'finale problem' - as I understand it - was essentially this: given the weight of emphasis accorded by Beethoven to the finale of his 9th Symphony, how were the composers who followed him to respond (although perhaps Mozart had already 'set the trend' in his Jupiter Symphony)? Thus, we can see in Brahms various different answers (emulation in No.1; avoidance in No.2; fade-out in No.3; passacaglia in No.4) and in Bruckner (especially in the 5th and 8th Symphonies) attempts to out-do even Beethoven, but in purely instrumental terms.

I named Draeseke's 3rd (without explanation - very remiss of me) because of his novel solution to the problem; as Dr Alan Krueck wrote:

...he takes his concept of the tragic one formal step further than any other symphonist of the time, promoting not only cyclical development among the movements and providing a contrapuntal summary of themes in his finale, but actually returns to the symphony's introduction, with all its tragic foreboding, as a coda of  tranquil repose at the work's conclusion.
http://www.draeseke.org/essays/zeitgeist_4.htm

Any thoughts, anyone?

[eschiss1]

BTW... Fade-out for Brahms no.3? that applies only to the very end. The finale as a whole, a minor-mode sonata form (a resolution to major/minor clashes throughout the first movement, I agree) which additionally quotes material from the second movement (unless I'm getting confused here...) and only in that fade-out the first, is a more ambitious affair than that.

The passacaglia of the fourth (successor in some ways not just of Bach but of more recent instrumental works by e.g. Rheinberger, and predecessor of the finale of CV Stanford 5, iirc?... ) has, as Malcolm/Calum MacDonald has pointed out, its own distinguishing features (all the thematic cross-relations between it and the other movements one notices with continued acquaintance...), but I agree of course this is not the forum- still, if one can mention  him to summarize his works in an over-negative sentence, a somewhat less brief single response might be allowable

While not as original and probably too simply retrospective (and perhaps too far into the 20th century...) the finale of Stenhammar's 2nd symphony (not to limit oneself to symphonic or even orchestral finales here, but anyway) does seem somehow especially effective. But you are right to raise the bar.

[Biarent]

I'm glad someone mentioned Brahms' Fourth as that reminded me of the even more satisfying passacaglia finale from Zemlinsky's Bb major symphony.

[Delicious Manager]

I think the finale of Franz Schmidt's great 4th Symphony works extremely well. After the Scherzo implodes in on itself, the finale provides the perfect foil to its preceding movement, while also coming 'full circle' with a restatement of the solo trumpet theme at the end. This makes the whole symphony extremely satisfying to me and feels as if an inevitable path has been followed and a long journey satisfactorily completed.

[Biarent]

I think the finale of Franz Schmidt's great 4th Symphony works extremely well. After the Scherzo implodes in on itself, the finale provides the perfect foil to its preceding movement, while also coming 'full circle' with a restatement of the solo trumpet theme at the end. This makes the whole symphony extremely satisfying to me and feels as if an inevitable path has been followed and a long journey satisfactorily completed.

I forgot about this one too! Certainly there is no question that the Schmidt belongs in this category as well.

[eschiss1]

it _still_ seems to me that the best examples (pace Draeseke and Alan Krueck) I can think of from the Romantic period are no longer unsung (though some were until fairly recently). Mahler 6 (though likely a controversial nomination as not everyone will agree it _does_ hold together, and I won't waste the space of this forum arguing the point ) comes to mind for one (though perhaps not the best choice, but off top of head).  Admittedly Ilja didn't pose the problem with any such requirement, but one sees the further problem. Hrm. "The best solution to the Finale Problem by an unsung composer"?...