Dvorak Viola Concerto

[Alan Howe]

That's my suspicion. Toskey lists them separately - that's probably the original source of my information.

[Gareth Vaughan]

They are also listed separately in the work list at the back of Pirani's study of Moor - but that has more than one error.

[semloh]

So... where does all this leave us in relation to minacciosa's very strongly expressed opinion that a version of Dvorak's cello concerto arranged for viola is "a complete waste of resources"?

[Alan Howe]

...with a matter of opinion, I imagine.

[semloh]

... but opinion based on what arguments or rationales, Alan?

My own simplistic argument would be that there's no harm in producing recordings of concertos employing a different instrument to the one intended by the composer, and leaving it to audiences to decide whether they enjoy it or not. They generally aren't popular, but sometimes they do reveal aspects of the music that listeners may have previously overlooked (e.g. the PC of Beethoven's VC) - a point that has been made previously in the archives of UC. Concertos are sometimes arranged for another instrument by the composer, of course (but I think not Dvorak), and that can also be a revelation. So, for my part, I'd be quite interested in hearing "Dvorak's Viola Concerto". 

[Gareth Vaughan]

I'm afraid I'm with minacciosa here. When I consider the huge number of works for which we lack full scores (by which I mean, for example, piano concertos that exist only in 2-piano scores but for which there are clues enough as to instrumentation) I would much rather see the efforts of talented arrangers and orchestrators applied to restoring these works to a state approximating the original so that we can hear them, rather than messing around with works that already exist in the precise forms intended by their composers. And in my opinion Beethoven's own arrangement of his violin concerto for piano and orchestra adds nothing of value to the piano concerto repertoire nor gives us any insights into the violin concerto, except to illustrate how remarkably Beethoven wrote for the violin in his original composition.

[Alan Howe]

I respectfully disagree here. I find the viola version of Dvorak's fabulous concerto a really wonderful piece of work, giving violists something truly great from the 19th century to play. It's not a question of 'either - or', but 'both - and', in my humble opinion, of course.

[Gareth Vaughan]

Well, of course, I haven't heard it, so I could be accused of being unfair. But I'm just talking about a general principle here.

[Alan Howe]

...with which I generally agree!

[TerraEpon]

Eh, IMO the biggest question is "is it enjoyable to listen to as an isolated entity"? In the case of Beethoven's Op. 61a, this is an emphatic YES for me.

I usually don't consider cello music being played on the viola in general as being different enough to matter, per se, but I have to imagine it'll still work as a piece. And how much would have to be changed? There's a huge huge difference of effort involved here vs what Gareth is asking for.

[eschiss1]

I'd rather see some duplicated recordings of real viola concertos of quality (though my favorites, e.g. Benjamin Frankel's, aren't in our remit), and new recordings of unrecorded ones, than a recording of a work whose selection may have lain more in a reduced willingness to take chances. (Though even then, the few viola works by the recognized masters, the viola version of Brahms' clarinet works aside, don't get that many recordings either- consider Mendelssohn's viola sonata (which is in fact PD-US despite its recent copyright date, because of certain oddnesses of copyright law in regards its East German editors, as I recall, but. Ah well.)

[Alan Howe]

real viola concertos of quality

Me too. But there don't seem to be many covered by UC's remit.

[JimL]

Has anybody mentioned the Viola Concerto in C minor, Op. 121 by Johanna Senfter? I think it would be in our remit, judging from her 4th Symphony, provided that as she got older she didn't get more acerbic, like, say Julius Weismann.

[eschiss1]

re Senfter, the 1994 Wergo recording of selected piano works of hers ranges from 3 wo/o individual works to 3 sets from Op.77 to Op.129. Don't know about their dates or, for that matter, that of the viola concerto, though since I -believe- few of them were ever published (a few of her works were published during her lifetime, but not many iirc) I'm guessing this is a case where the opus number does more or less track with composition date. Anyhow, if anyone has access to that recording they may be able to give a tentative answer to Jim's question by auditioning the 2 piano pieces Op.129...

Edit: listening to Op.129 No.1 via Naxos Music Library, the opening reminds me strongly of 3rd-period Reger (late, as opposed to 2nd period extremely harsh - or... of the most relaxed variation in the slow movement of the F major cello sonata Op.78 from that period, too... (or similarly from the Mozart Variations Op.132, going back to late Reger...)) , though the middle section is more agitated.

[Double-A]

I may be mistaken but from the soundbites on the Amazon web site I am under the impression that the viola plays the bulk of the part in the same octave that the cello would.  Cello concertos, including the Dvorak, tend to feature the upper register of the instrument heavily, so a large percentage of the part would not have to be transcribed at all--except for the clef.  (Not sure what one does with the passages written for the thumb though.)

If so the soloist plays an octave lower relative to the instrument's tuning than a cellist would have to.  This would greatly reduce the technical difficulty of the part and maybe make some of the passages sound more relaxed and singing than in the original.  At any rate as far as re-instrumentations go this one is going almost the shortest possible distance.