Goldmark Violin Concerto - with no cuts

[Mark Thomas]

It's years since I listened to Goldmark's impressive concerto, which I hadn't realised had substantial cuts in the finale in the previous well-known recordings (Milstein, Perlman, Bell etc.). Now there's a new recording on BIS from the Korean violist Sueye Park and the Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra under Valentin Egel which presents the whole work, a substantial 41 minutes long, restoring the lengthy cadenza and passages which follow it. That might make for an interesting one-off listen if it wasn't for Park's rendition, which strips away the showy fireworks and sentimentality of Milstein's interpretation, for example, and presents a lower key, sometimes lyrically introspective and often vigorous but never artificially dramatic view of the piece, which suits it very well. Added to which, the balance with the orchestra is pleasingly natural. At 10 minutes longer than many other recordings, Park's performance for some may overstay its welcome, but I think it gives the work a seriousness and stature that those earlier interpretations miss in their search for fireworks.

[terry martyn]

Have to say that I thought the Goldmark  was not "unsung" and had kept a  firm foothold in the repertory.  Eric,who is such a mine of information, might know roughly how many public (professional and amateur) performances it has achieved in the past sixty or so years.

I might be about to be unpleasantly surprised, as I have always numbered it amongst the finest of violin concertos.

[Mark Thomas]

I thought the Goldmark  was not "unsung" and had kept a  firm foothold in the repertory

There a quite a few recordings, Terry, but in the concert repertoire? I'm not so sure.

[John Boyer]

Are these cuts that can be seen in the published score, or have they been restored from the manuscript? I am well aware of the drastic cuts that Millstein made, which is why I never recommend that recording despite most critics saying it is the go-to, but it seems to me recordings of a more recent vintage play the entire score. My Nai-Yuan Hu/Gerard Schwartz/Seattle Symphony recording from 1995 times in at 36 minutes with a finale that takes about 14:30.

[Mark Thomas]

As regards the cuts, to be honest, John, I'm only reporting what I've read in reviews and the booklet of the new recording. The finale takes 17:37 in Park's reading, and I wouldn't say it dragged tempo-wise.

[John Boyer]

Now I am perplexed. I followed the Hu/Schwartz recording with score in hand, but noted no cuts. We will need the services of a score hound to explain what is going on.

[tuatara442442]

There are indeed some differences between what this recording played and what the published score wrote, but not too substantial. You can hear it at about 9-10 minutes into the last movement of this recording, in the middle of the cadenza. It is different from the first few lines of p. 79 of the full score. I haven't discovered other differences though.

[Ilja]

This might be useful for comparison: these are relative waveforms of the left channel of the concerto's third movement in various performances.

Respective lengths are:

• Milstein 14:33
• Perlman 12:48
• Park 17:25
• Hu 14:18
• Ricci 12:04
• Bell 12:44

[Hector]

Vera Tsu 13:15 on Naxos.

[John Boyer]

Respective lengths are:

• Milstein 11:33 (corrected)
• Perlman 12:48
• Park 17:25
• Hu 14:18
• Ricci 12:04
• Bell 12:44

The timing on the Milstein can't be right.  His is substantially cut, but it's the second longest in the list.  When I looked up two issues of his famous recordings, the timings were 11:37 and 11:40, which would make his the shortest.

[eschiss1]

(Edit: Was using discogs, now replacing with trawling YouTube more carefully etc. etc.)


Milstein/Walter, NYP, 1942: 10:20! (19:22 into video-29:42 into video (YT). Discogs mentions a Corigliano (1901-75, not the modern composer)/Walter but gives no internal timings.
Irnberger/Israel Chamber Orchestra/D. Salomon: 12:56
Gimpel/Pensis: 13:02 (1951 recording remastered) (20:58-34:00 ca.)
Chang/Conlon/Köln: 13:37
Similarly Peter Rybar/Swoboda/Vienna Symphony: 14:39
Hilary Hahn, 2006 live on YouTube- 12:38 (published violin part shown in the background, though if it itself is cut compared to what Goldmark wrote, that's no guarantee...)
Edit: second quickest-and/or-cut after Milstein/Walter: Capucon/ORTF/Heras-Casado, 2022: finale lasts all of 10:45 (out of about 32 minutes or so.)

(I would not presume to assume that I am the Eric referred to earlier in the thread, but I did have a quick look and found nothing, nothing I say, to contradict the suggestion that the work is not very often performed in the concert hall nowadays... I'll look harder, though; I admit I was in a hurry at the time and it deserves more of a look, one way or the other!)

[John Boyer]

Discogs mentions a Corigliano (1901-75, not the modern composer)/Walter but gives no internal timings.

Probably John Corigliano's father, who was concertmaster of the New York Philharmonic.

[eschiss1]

..ok, let me backtrack. Looking more carefully at the cover of the LP, it's a coupling of Mozart's sinfonia concertante with Lincer & Corigliano as soloists; and the Goldmark with Milstein- no wonder I couldn't find a video of Corigliano/Walter/NYPL (the Philharmonic Symphony at the time). Discogs has an entry for a 1980 issue but again, no internal timings etc. The mistake was my own. It's possible the Milstein/Walter/NYPL 1942 video is also the one on that LP. (Total length of video -29:48; total length on LP- 30:56- ok, maybe not, too...) (Or maybe so. this claims to be another LP with the 1942 Milstein/Walter, and gives 30:56 as its total time too... could this be a recording-speed thing in some way, hrm.)

[Ilja]

The timing on the Milstein can't be right.  His is substantially cut, but it's the second longest in the list.  When I looked up two issues of his famous recordings, the timings were 11:37 and 11:40, which would make his the shortest.

You're right, I must have made some miscalculation and added three minutes. The waveform is Milstein's, though.

[eschiss1]

Discogs mentions a Corigliano (1901-75, not the modern composer)/Walter but gives no internal timings.

Probably John Corigliano's father, who was concertmaster of the New York Philharmonic.

Thanks!!