Responsible journalism

[Alan Howe]

For an example of responsible and thoughtful journalism, look no further than this superbly detailed and insightful review of Thielemann's recent (and controversial) Beethoven symphonies cycle...

The presentation of this set is lavish – a smart box surrounds a linen-bound booklet which binds in the notes together with the compact discs. Included is a bonus DVD giving insight into Beethoven and to Christian Thielemann's relationship with the music. During the filming Thielemann says much about his approach to Beethoven's symphonies but generally the production seeks to inform rather than promote the recording. The performances have also been filmed and a complete DVD set is available, so the description of filming techniques on this extensive sampler is very relevant. My only complaint is the appreciation of the conductor by members of the orchestra because it verges on the sycophantic at times. The cameramen must have enjoyed shooting the musical excerpts where the pictures switch frequently between rehearsals and performances while keeping the music continuous and there are no changes of acoustic regardless of the presence or absence of an audience. The amusing result is that Thielemann appears to switch between evening-dress and one or other of several brightly-patterned shirts while conducting the same performance.
The DVD prepares the listener for his subjective approach to certain aspects of the music but I find it interesting that the conductor confines these personal elements of his interpretations mainly to the more-dramatic symphonies. This means that Symphony No.1 is treated in a fairly 'classical' style but there are still elements of subjectivity. From the outset Thielemann seems to be searching – the introduction is very slow indeed and extremely dramatic; the final phrase causes a surprise by being taken at the tempo of the succeeding Allegro con brio and it shows touches of dynamic shading at the very start.
Characteristic of this conductor is a tendency to accelerate during crescendos. Dynamic shading is also applied to the broadly-paced Andante. The Minuet is given with fierce dash yet despite the speed there is room for differentiation of loudness in repeated phrases during the Trio. The finale is goes with impulse but no great haste. The sudden loud outbursts at the start of the development are underplayed. Beethoven put similar sudden changes at equivalent moments in the first and second movements but Thielemann sees no need to stress them either. Toscanini took the opposite view and I feel that the resultant element of angriness that he evoked was indeed Beethoven's intention.
Symphony No.2 is very grand in scale – it is given greater stature here than is usually provided. The chording in the first movement is not particularly strong, perhaps because the timpani do not seem to be struck with any great force – they are far stronger in the last two movements and the finale has all the necessary impact. The conductor mostly stays with his initially chosen tempos but I am not at all comfortable with his very slow approach to the Larghetto; this is more like Largo. Chailly, Toscanini and Zinman convince totally with their dancing, light-hearted approach. They take 9 minutes but Thielemann takes 12. Because of the powerful playing and the noble phrasing the music has impressive weight – interest is held despite the tempo, not because of it.
The 'Eroica' finds Thielemann imposing his personality more strongly. The first example occurs just before bar 7, which is marked piano. In this performance this quiet entry is prepared for by a marked diminuendo by the rest of the strings. Such an approach foreshadows what is to come. The second subject gets slower until it reaches the sforzando at its close and then, via an accelerando, the strings haul the music back to tempo which remains until the stressing of the heavy chords a few bars prior to the observed exposition repeat. So, this also occurs on second hearing just prior to the development which begins immensely slowly but recovery is achieved thirty bars later. Lovers of this music will have foreseen that the wildly discordant passage will be much exaggerated as in fact it is, but to be fair, it sounds hugely exciting. Tastes vary and there are those who will be disturbed by this movement being treated as a symphonic poem. The basic speed is very slow indeed, as slow as Horenstein's first recording of this work but Horenstein convinced by being rock-steady, therefore basic slowness is the only thing that the two recordings have in common.
Thielemann reaches the end of the first movement after more than 19½ minutes: four and a half minutes longer than Chailly – yet despite my discomfort with Thielemann s extraordinarily personal treatment of tempo I cannot say that I found it overlong. Much the same can be said of the 18-minute 'Funeral March' (it takes just over 12 under Chailly). The very withdrawn and hugely measured opening is grippingly dramatic. I foresaw the overall picture becoming similar to performances of this movement in the mid-20th-century when it was usual to interpret the music as soft=slow and loud=fast but in the event my prediction was wrong because Thielemann avoids this and his liberties with tempo are confined to becoming static only at the quietest and saddest moments. This is not a reading for purists but it is mightily effective – indeed moving. The scherzo is suitably powerful, the only disturbance being the slight subsiding of pulse as the horns negotiate the entry of the trio although the basic tempo is soon recovered. The finale is powerful and the tempo relates well to what has gone before but when arriving at Beethoven's marking of Poco andante, the tempo becomes very Adagio-like and when this broad episode swells to a dramatic peroration with the horns taking the melody, the full textures seem strongly to foreshadow Richard Strauss in his more powerful moments. The long coda does however provide suitable excitement.
Symphony No.4 finds the musicians respecting the Classical tradition to a greater extent while also stressing that this is a work of great stature. The mysterious introduction is nicely poised – the sense that something very exciting is about to happen is engendered and indeed the onslaught of the Allegro, taken broadly but forcefully certainly grips the imagination. I don't quite understand the slackness of the bassoon's annunciation of the second subject on each appearance of the melody – I suppose it adds to the excitement of the subsequent crescendo but it spoils the surging momentum that has hitherto been achieved and it was is only to be expected that the later crescendo over the long drum roll would start slowly and forcefully accelerate. The slow movement is done sensitively with the suddenness of the forte outbursts being led into warmly rather than surprising the ear. The Minuet (so marked in my edition of the score) is sensibly described in this set as Allegro vivace – after all it is really a scherzo and it sounds very lively. Beethoven's Un poco meno allegro marking for the trio is obeyed – although I never object to the recent trend whereby this instruction is ignored. Allegro non troppo is the direction for the finale and that is how it is performed but that does not prevent it from having a strong sense of propulsion and I forgive the indulgence of playing bars 345 to 348 very slowly in order to make the six concluding bars that follow even more surprising.
I suppose the conductor's dramatic approach to the music makes the conventional emphasis at the close of the of the opening phrases of Symphony No.5 inevitable but I am glad to note that it is a great deal less marked than in many a 'traditional' performance. Although his tempo is slower than that of the most convincingly furious readings (Kleiber father and son, Scherchen, Chailly, Abbado), Thielemann imparts a strong sense of forward drive – dramatic but not rhetorical. There is a superb oboe solo. The Andante con moto tends to lack the 'moto' element but it is lovingly phrased. The scherzo finds Beethoven's deletion of the repeat being respected (very few conductors put it back into the score). The horn-led theme bounces along rhythmically and fairly swiftly – I'm not sure about the emphatic lurch into the trio by the double basses but the tension builds nicely, the articulation is magnificent and all this leads to a good sense of pre-finale tension. As usual I wish the quiet timpani strokes had been better defined and there is a very personal approach to the start of the finale where the first four bars are considerably broader than those that follow. This happens again, both on the repeat and at the later re-appearance of the theme. It is all grand and exciting which is how it should be and it ends in fury with gradation of dynamics similar to that found in Erich Kleiber's unparalleled reading.
How refreshing to have the first movement of the 'Pastoral' Symphony taken at an easygoing pace; perhaps the unrealistic metronome marking has persuaded some conductors to race through this calm music – but clearly the metronome is irrelevant to Thielemann. There is hint of tension before the repeat and toward the end of the first movement but in general all is calm. The description 'flowing but flexible' applies to the first two movements and the very expressive approach to birdsong at the close of the second one is a nice touch. The Peasants' scherzo is lively. These are vigorous country folk but they are less heavy-footed than might have been expected and the bassoonist is surprisingly refined. I like the wild scattering of the dancers prior to the storm during which the timpani and double basses are suitably thunderous. All the big chords are full and weighty and the flow of the music is such that the gentle unhurried approach to the final hymn of praise works well, leaving space for the biggest climax of all to make a grand but comforting effect. In this context the unusually slow sequence of final bars, though not quite what is in the score, is an acceptable view of the closure.
In considering other conductors for the sake of comparison I have not mentioned Otto Klemperer but there are some similarities with Thielemann – particularly in respect of basic tempo although Klemperer retains the pulse firmly whereas Thielemann frequently varies it. Nevertheless there is a parallel regarding firmness of progress in the readings of both musicians together with their concern for inner detail. They also take a similar view regarding observation of repeats in the first six symphonies: they play them all, save for Klemperer in the 'Eroica'.
When it comes to No.7 however Klemperer unaccountably leaves out repeats in all directions, making no exposition repeats in the outer movements and only one of the four in the scherzo. To my surprise Thielemann makes similar omissions but less logically than Klemperer, because in the scherzo, having chosen not to repeat the second part of it on its first appearance, he then throws in the second repeat of the trio, itself very slow – back to the days of Erich Kleiber, Furtwängler and Weingartner – but he resultant asymmetrical shape of the movement becomes confusing. Overlook these aberrations together with the shortening of the outer movements and it is still worth studying how the conductor regards the music. He has ideas that go back a long way in performing tradition. A very expressive introduction leads to a grand Allegro taken broadly, with emphases at crucial points. The control of rhythm is immaculate, in the coda the past view is taken whereby the threatening double basses grind out their obsessive repeated figure very slowly and wind up the speed to an exciting finish.
It is no longer fashionable to take the Allegretto at an unhurried Andante but it happens here and interest is held, not least through the dramatic way in which the dynamics are shaped although the relaxation for the second subject will not suit everyone. The finale has a great deal of fire, starting at an average sort of speed but pushing on after half-a-minute and slowing at the start of the development giving a second opportunity to give excitement through acceleration and this happens each time the same melodic phrase appears. It is possible to question the validity of these moments but Thielemann is certainly consistent in demonstrating his ideas and the only unusual feature about the whirling thrill of the final pages is the insistence of the repeated trumpet notes in the last half-dozen bars.
A quarter of a minute into Symphony No.8 there is an eccentric rallentando, then we have a slower second subject, yet for all this there is something majestic about this reading. The last few notes of the movement are presented as a huge slowing – as if the composer had marked the last two bars 'molto collapso'. There is a strange woodwind note in bar 4 of the Allegretto scherzando but the moderate pace rather suits the music, although I am not sure if, in this tribute to his invention, Maelzel would have approved of his metronome being part of expressive slowing from time to time, but generally the music is made to sound sunny and well-natured. Sturdiness returns in the measured Minuet which is flexible but not eccentrically so. The rounding-off at the end of the second section is perhaps questionable; it is not that it is unmusical but it makes it impossible for the horns to be in tempo as the trio starts giving the section a slower feel yet the Minuet does not hurry when it returns. In the finale I miss the delightful soft repeated drum patterns – they are recorded very distantly. This is a broad tempo; the power is there but not perhaps the humour although I do like the hugely long mid-movement fermata.
In the 'Choral' Symphony there seems to be a slightly different balance and the timpani are a little stronger. From the very start the matter of general definition comes into question because the sotto voce descending violin phrases are barely audible beneath held horns and tremolo strings; this also occurs when the pattern returns later-on. There is however a sense of inevitably as the music moves forward steadily and majestically and it is some eight minutes before Thielemann imposes his personality by easing back to introduce an important theme. Above all he brings immense power to the terrifying recapitulation passage – the all-important timpani make a thrilling sound here. It is no surprise that the coda should start very slowly; this is not justified by the score but it makes the close of the movement exhilarating.
Next comes the scherzo and I am sure many listeners will find it frustrating. Firstly, of the four repeats Thielemann leaves out the second one – there is no structural justification for this, but maybe structure does not matter to the conductor in this movement because at the beginning of the second section there is a build-up to a long-held note which precedes a bassoon solo and here the tempo is drawn back so fiercely that the music almost stops. Then at the massive tutti passage punctuated by furious drum strokes the tempo is again modified. There is lovely playing in the unhurried trio and a magnificent horn solo. I can live with the huge rallentando before the return of the scherzo but in general I find it very difficult to come to terms with the way it is shaped. The succeeding movement responds very well to Thiemann's expressive muse though. A real Adagio molto commences this deeply-felt interpretation and the juxtaposition of the Andante moderato section is very well judged. Such an expansive reading is rare nowadays.
The staggeringly discordant start of the finale crashes in with suitable immediacy. This time the descending violins at the brief reference to the start of the opening movement cannot be heard at all but this is a trifle because Thielemann does have something special to offer in this movement. The main theme starts in a subdued hush after a long, dramatic pause. This tune is so familiar yet the phrasing is fresh and illuminating and its brass-led culmination is truly triumphant – good to hear the upper woodwind being so forceful too. The first vocal entry displays flexible phrasing from Georg Zeppenfeld who has a light timbre – aficionados might like to know that he does not employ the disputed appoggiatura on the word "tone". The chorus enters and is stunningly forceful, landing with immense power on "Vor got". After the modern convention of subduing the percussion in the military march, Piotr Beczala is expressive and accurate albeit not especially heroic, but when the choir enters to present the restatement of the main melody, excitement is considerable. This leads to a very broad rendering of "Seid umschlungen..." and the intensity with which the chorus expounds the belief that a loving father must surely dwell above the stars is magical. Thielemann adopts an extremely slow tempo here and rightly so for a moment that makes the listener wish that this passage might go on forever. I certainly appreciate the balance of the final pages: throughout the chorus is clear and forward and the soloists remain in natural perspective. The singers do use vibrato but they avoid sounding operatic. As for the coda – it is noble and uplifting. The percussion is adequate and excellent balance incorporates a clearly etched piccolo line.
How then to sum up this strangely mixed set? I listened to the symphonies in numerical order and ended by being mightily impressed by the inspirational interpretation of the finale of No.9. Yet there are so many arguable features elsewhere that an overall description seems impossible. This is a set for those prepared to accept a very personal view of Beethoven, performed by one of the world's greatest orchestras. The sound is big and modern – the applause has very properly been removed but subdued rustling giving evidence of the presence of an audience is retained between movements. This sounds very natural – an excellent way to present live performances. A good amount of resonance is evident giving a bloom to the sound. Balance is generally very convincing but the nature of the performances means that instruments do not leap out of the texture and the occasional fortissimo chord strikes the ear less strongly than in many other performances. Regarding these challenging interpretations, some of the modifications to Beethoven's instructions have been demonstrated before, other ideas are entirely new. Tempos take very little account of the metronome markings that were added to the scores toward the end of the composer's career but all choices of basic speed seem justified within the context of the relevant interpretation. The listener must be aware however that Thielemann often tends to modify his initial choices as the music proceeds. This is a controversial set but it does illuminate aspects of Beethoven that escape many other interpreters.

Anthony Hodgson
http://www.classicalsource.com/db_control/db_cd_review.php?id=9889

[Amphissa]

It is remarkable to me that Hodgson was actually able to sit through these recordings, much less write about them in a civil manner. I hope he was well compensated for that review, because there went hours of his life wasted on  Thielemann 

[Alan Howe]

It is remarkable to me that Hodgson was actually able to sit through these recordings, much less write about them in a civil manner. I hope he was well compensated for that review, because there went hours of his life wasted on  Thielemann 

...may I ask whether you have actually listened to all these recordings, Dave?

[Amphissa]

...may I ask whether you have actually listened to all these recordings, Dave?

I have not, and I have no intention on wasting hours of my own time doing so. I have seen/heard Thielemann in person, sitting a dozen rows from the front, dead center. I have heard radio broadcast recordings of live performances. I have heard studio recordings.

I've had quite enough of Thielemann. If there is a worse conductor currently with a major orchestra (or a minor one for that matter), I've missed it. I have a finite number of hours of listening time remaining in my life. I will not waste them on Thielemann.

And thankfully, I am not required to, since I'm not a journalist (responsible or otherwise). 

[Alan Howe]

...may I ask whether you have actually listened to all these recordings, Dave?

I have not

Then, whatever your view of Thielemann in general (to which you are, of course, entitled), your opinion of his Beethoven cycle is not worthy of anyone's attention.

I have heard the cycle and I'd say Hodgson was pretty well spot-on. Which makes Thielemann at least worthy of a listen as opposed to being written off unheard.

[Amphissa]

Seems to me that Hodgson said (very politely) that the interpretations were eccentric, with unusual tempi, sometimes far from the norm, and overall a quirky interpretation by the conductor.

That said, I have in my collection Beethoven symphonies 4, 5, 6 and 7 by the Vienna Philharmonic conducted by Thielemann -- performances at Théâtre des Champs-Élysées, Paris in 2010, from radio broadcast. I have only listened to portions of these recordings, to see what they were like. My opinion of Thielemann was not changed by these recordings. But I'm not a fan, so was probably more critical than open minded when listening.

That is enough for me to go on. And you are right -- my opinion is not worthy of anyone's attention. It's just my opinion.

[Alan Howe]

Your opinion is worthy of attention when it pertains to something you've actually heard. Otherwise...

[Amphissa]

Actually, I now see that I have the complete series of performances at Théâtre des Champs-Élysées, Paris in 2010 - all 9 symphonies. I don't think I ever listened to any of them in their entirety.

I also have all 9 Beethoven symphonies by Thielemann/VPO from the Musikverein during the years 2008-2010. Again, I've listened only to portions to see what they are like.

I've also got lots of Bruckner, Strauss and Brahms by Thielemann. I've tried listening to them. I just don't like his interpretations. To me, he does strange things just trying to be different, and I suspect it is simply for the sake of being different.

[Alan Howe]

I agree that there often needs to be a serious 'caveat emptor' applied to Thielemann recordings, but the rule of thumb must be to listen with an open mind before criticising. This said, his Liszt Faust Symphony on DVD/Blu-ray is pretty straightforward - and magnificent!

[Dundonnell]

I realise that Thielemann is a conductor who does raise strong feelings among different people

I am not quite sure why this is

I have three recordings of the Strauss Alpine Symphony(Karajan, Blomstedt and Wit). Here is Thielemann-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHLW9FQbBzw

Any comment? To my ears it certainly seems a glowing performance of one of my favourite works with, of course, the wonderful Vienna Philharmonic in its full glory

(By all means move this to another place, Alan, if you think that appropriate

[Alan Howe]

No problem. But I didn't want this to become a thread about Thielemann. It's simply that, being evidently a controversial conductor, Thielemann can attract lazy journalism of the sort the runs: "I've heard him doing X and he was terrible, so I can't be bothered even to listen to him doing Y".