Your new rules

[sdtom]

I can't believe that one of my favorite works Gliere's Red Poppy Suite doesn't qualify with your new rules. The Sailor Dance is a major highlight of classical music. Very disappointed
Tom

[Mark Thomas]

Tom, have you asked Alan or semloh or myself? There is a recognition in our definition of romanticism in music that some composers still wrote in an entirely "romantic" idiom long after our chronological cut off date and that their works would be fine for discussion here. I'd put Glière firmly in that category and wouldn't have a problem with his music being discussed.

[jerfilm]

Mark, maybe we could compile a list (I know, I know, we all hate lists) of 20th Century composers that we feel fall into the "late romantic' or whatever we want to call it.   Folks like Gliere, tyberg, Giannini, Alfred and Edward Burlingame Hill, and the list woud go on and on.  But it would be helpful.  We could start a thread and as composers get approved, since we can edit our posts,  keep a list at the beginning.  I'd be happy to work on this if there is some interest.

Jerry

[sdtom]

I just thought of another marvelous 20th century composer, Rachmaninoff and his symphonic dance suite written I believe in the early 40's of the 20th Century.
Tom

[Mark Thomas]

Tom, please do read our guidelines here. You'll see that the likes of Rachmaninov and Glière are not excluded. In fact, Rachmaninov is specifically mentioned.

[Alan Howe]

I think it'd be much too difficult to publish a list of 'ins and outs'; much better, in my view, to proceed on a case by case basis - which has worked well for the last six months or so.

[petershott@btinternet.com]

Years of working in the area of medical ethics showed me very clearly that it is quite impossible to draw up a list of necessary and defining features of a human being. (And what term might seem more clear cut than that?) Far far more impossible in the case of 'romantic' composer or work. Thus, whilst Jerry's idea of a definitive list might seem an easy option, there isn't a hope in hell of actually arriving at one!

Nope, far better to work on a 'case by case' basis - provided moderators aren't too harsh in squashing someone's proposed addition. (I was rather sore a few month's ago when the boot was abruptly put in to my attempt to discuss William Alwyn. I still think his music fits the published guideline of 'romantic', but recognise that is a minority view and don't lose sleep over the disagreement of others).

[Alan Howe]

'fraid Alwyn doesn't fit - any more than Walton would. They're composers of attractive, largely tonal music, sometimes even with tunes. But there's another (modernist) side to them that doesn't fit here. So, a case by case basis it is...

[Jimfin]

There are people like Havergal Brian, once frequently discussed on here: his early music is undeniably romantic, but his post World War I music has elements that I imagine would not fit.

[jerfilm]

Just thought I'd suggest it.  It would certainly not be "THIS is THE list" period.  Of course it would be an ongoing thing.  On a case by case basis, as pointed out.

The thought occurred to me a couple of days ago when I wanted to add the YouTube pointers to E B Hill.  Is he or isn't he?  So I did a search for him on the site.  Found him, of course, but then realized that didn't mean anything.  There are all kinds of folks mentioned in various posts that no longer fit.......so......

Sit down and shut up, Jer........

[Alan Howe]

There are people like Havergal Brian, once frequently discussed on here: his early music is undeniably romantic, but his post World War I music has elements that I imagine would not fit.

The same could be said for a number of composers - and it doesn't seem to me to be a problem at all. Thus, Schoenberg's Gurrelieder and Verklärte Nacht fit, but Erwartung (for example) doesn't.

[matesic]

What's in a name? Having got intimately acquainted with quite a few near-forgotten string quartets from the "romantic era" and later, of course I've noticed an evolution in the harmonic language and some evidence of quasi-Darwinian speciation, mostly on nationalistic grounds, but no seismic stylistic shift that would disqualify any of the later ones from being broadly considered "romantic". When boundary disputes hinge on the meaning of a word, the best solution is to find a new word or to refrain from defining limits altogether, in the spirit of "open-mindedness"...

[Mark Thomas]

Sorry, folks, but I am really not going to have this debate open up again, as no useful purpose is going to be served by it. The policy of this site, as set out here, is perfectly clear and understandable.

Quite so.
Alan Howe