Järvi and Dvořák

[FBerwald]

Recently Järvi's Raff has got very good response so I was wondering.... How would the members rate his version of Dvořák symphonies [on Chandos]. I have the Václav Neumann with Czech Philarmonic Orchestra but find the tempo a bit draggy  .
Which is the best overall Dvořák Symphony set!

[Alan Howe]

This isn't really a topic for Unsung Composers as symphonies 6 to 9 range from pretty sung to sung to death! My firm suggestion in any case is to mix and match - there is no one cycle that is better than that which can be assembled from a number of different conductors/labels.

However, should contributors want to post on the merits of symphonies 1 to 5 from various cycles...
Don't forget reasons, please!

[mbhaub]

Personally, I think Jarvi does a fine job of the Dvorak symphonies - and the set of tone poems is no slouch either. They're direct, fluid, exciting and well played and recorded. Critics will nit pick that he misses the true Czech feel, whatever that means. And you could select individual recordings of each of the 9 that surpass Jarvis, but as a set he has nothing to be ashamed of. I think the recording of the 3rd is especially fine, and not surpassed by anyone. Having said that, my favorite set remains the Rowicki on Philips or whatever label it is on now. Every symphony is played by the LSO brilliantly with a lot of energy and style.  I far prefer Rowicki or Jarvi to Kertesz or Kubelik. In any event, the early symphonies are surely neglected (at least in concerts) and 3, 5, and 6 are especially melodic and compelling.

[Amphissa]

Hmmmm .... Are we now going to begin discussing works by the most sung composers just because they are not played as much as the "greatest hits"? Perhaps Rachmaninoff's 1st and 4th piano concertos? Tchaikovsky's 2nd and 3rd piano concertos? 75% of Liszt, which doesn't get played much? Do we discuss early versioins of Mahler's 1st Symphony?

I could understand unpublished and/or newly discovered works by sung composers being on topic. I could understand controversial works attributed to sungs that may have been written by some unsung composer. And I enjoy listening to lesser-played works by sungs.

But if we are going to open the board to discussing all of the works by superstar composers just because they are not played as often as the greatest hits, I think there should be a separate category on the board for Sungs. See how it goes. Because monitoring this could grow to become as much of a challenge as the previous iteration of the board.

Okay, sorry, just my 2 cents.

[Balapoel]

Well, as long as the topics are clearly stated in the header, we have an option to tune in (or not). The area could get gray regarding unsung works by sung composers. There is truly a wealth of material that needs to be put on folks radar screens.  This particular topic, however, I could see as edging into the gray area. But I'm all for letting folks speak (in a figurative sense).

[TerraEpon]

To stick with Dvorak's earlier symphonies and a truly unsung (though it has singing) work by him, there's a very good recording of Symphony No. 5 - Andrew Davis/Philharmonia Orchestra -- that is coupled with the cantata An American Flag -- Michael Tilson Thomas/St. Hedwig's Cathedral Choir, RIAS Chamber Choir, and Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra -- on the Sony Essential Classics label from the mid-90s and to my knowledge never re-released on CD. It's a pretty interesting piece, of course written when Dvorak was in the US.

[Mark Thomas]

The truly unsung works of the "superstar" composers of the romantic area is, it seems to me, an entirely legitimate area for discussion here. The relatively unsung works is, as a couple of you have said, a grey area and one on which we moderators are going to have to approach, whistle in hand. We can't avoid reference to standard repertoire works, of course, and each post will have to be taken on its merits, but  I certainly wouldn't regard any of the Rachmaninov or Tchaikovsky Piano Concertos, to take Amphissa's example, as being appropriate topics here.

[Alan Howe]

Spot-on, Mark. That's the sensible approach, I'm sure.

[eschiss1]

actually, I still remember when "Tchaikovsky piano concertos" meant "first" to me and I was glad to have a chance to hear the 2nd and what there was of the 3rd (and I'm fairly young all told- ok, early middle age), but point taken

[Alan Howe]

...a separate category on the board for Sungs...

Respectfully, no. That would be a watering down of the primary purpose of UC.

[Mark Thomas]

Indeed, there are plenty of other places with a more mainstream focus.

[TerraEpon]

Though most of them that I've come across tend to be very elitist and pretty dismissing of most unsung music.
That said, I do like this forum retains its focus rather than having 20 other forums or other things like some forums I've seen, or even an off topic one alone.

[Alan Howe]

Thank you. It's good to hear that the existing focus should be retained.

[FBerwald]

All I wanted was the opinion of a few members on Järvi's Dvořák... and instead of a few suggestions [only 1 counting] we are debating what is sung/unsung. True we try to discuss the "obscure" in the forum but why so many questions? 1 or 2 answers like.... "the Järvi set is good or the  Kubelik is better" would have been enough - Topic closed! The question was focusing more on  Järvi's conducting skills rather than the quality of Dvořák's symphonies.

[Alan Howe]

All I wanted was the opinion of a few members on Järvi's Dvořák... and instead of a few suggestions [only 1 counting] we are debating what is sung/unsung

Well, the problem is that a major part of what you are asking about refers to music outside the remit of this forum, i.e. sung music by a sung composer. And there are plenty of other places online where discussions of these matters can be found. So, regrettably, we have to curtail discussion here to, say, Järvi's performances of symphonies 1 to 5.