Anton Rubinstein's sacred opera Moses Op112

[khorovod]

I'm warming to Moses as CD3 progresses. Much high drama and expressive writing.

So, I am confused then. Did you leave your 1-star Amazon review five days ago without having listened to the whole thing? Or were you so eager to listen again to the "tedium" of this "3 hour, 20 minute-long bore" that you returned to this mammoth opus and had a New Testament epiphany?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rubinstein-Polish-Orchestra-Sinfonia-Iuventus/dp/B07FDVGWHK/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1536771574&sr=1-1&keywords=rubinstein+moses

[adriano]

Amazon reviews can always be reviewed or eliminated 

[khorovod]

Amazon reviews can always be reviewed or eliminated 

Indeed. 

Though perhaps we should (as we are so often exhorted on UC) give a piece of music due consideration before publicly recommending or, in this case, so harshly condemning? I'm sure all those behind this project deserve that degree of respect at the very least. It might well be some years before (or never at all) that a prospective listener/purchaser returns to that listing on Amazon. Imagine if your own recordings were dismissed so cavalierly.

[Alan Howe]

I stand by what I said in my review, I'm afraid. The longueurs simply don't make up for the few interesting passages. There has been no epiphany - I'd've given the piece no stars at all if it had been possible. I'm sure there will be other reviews - and I'm entitled to my opinion - cavalier dismissal and all. I'm assuming those who disagree have all listened to the work themselves...

Nevertheless, out of respect for those who feel affronted by my Amazon review, I have deleted it.

[khorovod]

I stand by what I said in my review, I'm afraid. The longueurs simply don't make up for the few interesting passages. There has been no epiphany - I'd've given the piece no stars at all if it had been possible. I'm sure there will be other reviews - and I'm entitled to my opinion - cavalier dismissal and all. I'm assuming those who disagree have all listened to the work themselves...

Nevertheless, out of respect for those who feel affronted by my Amazon review, I have deleted it.

Oh my goodness, please do not think that I was "affronted" by your review and, of course you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not sure that I or anyone else has ever suggested otherwise so I'm not sure why you would think so. Or think that I was "affronted"? Please don't worry unduly about that...

I was more wryly amused that your review was not just written but posted by Amazon on the same day you'd listened to this behemoth and surprised to see it, when you have always so eloquently and quite rightly bemoaned unsung music not getting a fair shot because reviewers, amateur and most sadly professional too, have not given it a fair hearing or taken time to get to know it. That is all.

No. No offence taken, I'm not one of those middle-aged snowflakes who gets bupset at other people's beliefs or hairstyles or simply their youth, as so often seems to be the case when I listen to my peers! 

And my sometime enthusiasm for R's music has, I have to admit, waned since I last posted here (I had no idea it was so long ago) so based on comments here and the samples I've heard, I won't be pursuing that venerable Israelite across the desert!  I may revisit the Ocean, though, tomorrow (should the weather hold out). 

[Mark Thomas]

Peu à peu I am listening to it... It contains a lot of excellent music, but, really, it's just too much of it - and too long (3hrs 18 min). Some dramatic passages with chorus are impressive, some arias very beautiful indeed. One should consider this re-discovery as valuable.

I must say that, having admittedly only listened to the first CD so far, rather to my surprise I'm much more inclined to agree with hadrianus' comment than pan the work as worthless. It is certainly static, but some of the passages are quite beautiful and others are really stirring and dramatic. I have no appetite tonight to listen to any more, and certainly not twice as much again, but I found the music on the whole rather better than I thought it would be, and it certainly couldn't have a more committed performance.

[Alan Howe]

I'm not one of those middle-aged snowflakes who gets upset at other people's beliefs

That's good to hear. But really, Moses is very hard going overall. I'm amazed that anyone would think otherwise. But then, I find Siegfried mostly extraordinarily tedious - and as for Act 1 of Parsifal, well what a snooze-fest. And my opinion of Mahler has altered radically in recent years - and not for the better. So maybe I'm becoming increasingly intolerant of large-scale compositions that demand more from me than I'm prepared to give.

I'm currently listening to CD2 of Moses and I just don't find any pleasure in the tuneless declamation. It's not as if it's all well sung: Evelina Dobračeva, for example, has an unpleasantly harsh and unsteady voice as Asnath.

And the hype surrounding this project is extraordinary: the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung has hailed this 'The undertaking of the century'. It isn't. Not remotely. Conductor Michail Jurowski  has said: 'The world needs someone like Moses today'. Pardon? What on earth does he mean? And Twoja Muza apparently believes this to be 'the most perfect opera'. Really? Sorry, we're being taken for a ride here.

What I will say is that I can't think of anything like Moses. But the question I ask myself is: do I really want to listen to it ever again? And do I believe the hype? No. And no.

[M. Yaskovsky]

Why should one delete his negative opinion? It's your opinion, freedom of thought and speech I hope! There's a Dutch saying 'over smaak valt niet te twisten' (something like 'There's no accounting for taste') but we really do have to discuss opinions!

[adriano]

You are right, Yaskovsky, that's why I put a sunglasses' smiley after my sentence...
But I also surely shook my head after reading the exaggerated Frankfurt and Polish praises - and Jurowski's judgement!

[khorovod]

Why should one delete his negative opinion? It's your opinion, freedom of thought and speech I hope! There's a Dutch saying 'over smaak valt niet te twisten' (something like 'There's no accounting for taste') but we really do have to discuss opinions!

You are absolutely correct, Yaskovsky, and thankfully and quite rightly nobody here, least of all me, called for the review to be deleted or was personally offended by the opinions espoused. I explained at length in a previous comment why I thought a published review merited more consideration than one listen but even so I did not suggest it be deleted.  A careful read of the above discussion, much like a careful listen to a new work of music avoids cursory judgements, would avoid such strawman arguments.

[Alan Howe]

I decided to delete the review in case people were dissuaded from buying Moses and judging it for themselves. I agreed that a one-star review might have put them off. It's also possible that I was entirely wrong about the piece: I await contrary opinions with interest.

I suppose I might also change my mind. Maybe to 2 stars. Maybe. Maybe not. Frankly, I'm glad no longer to be listening to this worthy monster.

I put Raff 2 on yesterday. What a relief to be hearing music that knows where it is going, is attractively written for the orchestra and is thoroughly memorable. Raff is often compared to Rubinstein. No contest as far as I'm concerned.

[Mark Thomas]

Raff's attitude towards Rubinstein was ambivalent; he wrote: "his music reminds one of his Russian homeland: the palaces stand unordered next to miserable huts". I'm looking forward with ambivalence too to hearing the remaining two CDs of Moses, I didn't dislike the piece anything like as much as Alan obviously did, but do I really want to hear two more hours in the same vein?

[Alan Howe]

Rubinstein himself appeared to give credence to Raff's criticism when he told the musicologist Frederick Niecks that "he wrote on the spur of the moment, driven by an inner force; he could not... criticise, file and brood over his compositions. They were indeed improvisations and had the virtues and vices of improvisations."
http://www.raff.org/life/peers/rubinstn.htm

[adriano]

Here is the libretto of "Moses":
http://moses.warnermusicpoland.com.pl/libretto.pdf?

[Alan Howe]

There was discreet, but genuine enthusiasm on the part of the reviewers on this morning's Record Review (BBC Radio 3). Frankly, though, I was bored after a couple of minutes of listening to what were obviously supposed to be excerpts from the best music in the work. Sorry: this for me is still an almighty failure. Give me The Demon any day.