Felix Draeseke's other Symphonies

[Alan Howe]

BTW, members may be interested in this rather fleeter radio recording of Symphony No.3 with the Nordwestdeutsche Philharmonie under Siegfried Köhler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07b-dCI5CyQ&t=780s

Very exciting!

[Mark Thomas]

Back, if I may, to the Piano Concerto. John Boyer called the outer movements "vulgar" and that's a very apt description. It's almost as if Draeseke is deliberately parodying the worst excesses of the virtuosic Lisztian concertos of his contemporaries. The bombast, oversized gestures and unsubtle orchestration of these movements are in stark contrast with the central Adagio, which is indeed lovely, but so out of keeping with the rest of the work. It really is the oddest, inexplicable piece.

[terry martyn]

Oh dear.

Apart from the Serenade, the finale of the Piano Concerto is one of the few compositions  of Draeseke that I enjoy.

I can sense Lord Charteris's comments about the Duchess of York echoing in my ears.   I must be irredeemably vulgar.it seems.

[Alan Howe]

the finale of the Piano Concerto is one of the few compositions of Draeseke that I enjoy.

Well, you know that Draeseke's my favourite unsung composer. I take the PC for what it is: an unashamed display piece with a sublime slow movement. Love it!

[GoranTch]

Oh dear.

Apart from the Serenade, the finale of the Piano Concerto is one of the few compositions  of Draeseke that I enjoy.

I can sense Lord Charteris's comments about the Duchess of York echoing in my ears.   I must be irredeemably vulgar.it seems.

Are you familiar with the symphonies? Not necessarily just the Tragica, but Nos.1 and 2?
While certainly not "light" Draeseke, these are masterly works while at the same time being more accessible then the 3rd symphony. The 4th, Comica, is also a wonderful shorter symphony.

[GoranTch]

Back, if I may, to the Piano Concerto. John Boyer called the outer movements "vulgar" and that's a very apt description. It's almost as if Draeseke is deliberately parodying the worst excesses of the virtuosic Lisztian concertos of his contemporaries. The bombast, oversized gestures and unsubtle orchestration of these movements are in stark contrast with the central Adagio, which is indeed lovely, but so out of keeping with the rest of the work. It really is the oddest, inexplicable piece.

Ok, now I really am intrigued to listen to that one... Don't remember the last time somebody wrote about a piano concerto in terms of it being "the oddest, inexplicable piece"...

[terry martyn]

Yes, I have all his symphonies in my collection.  I am going to give numbers 1 and 2 another spin,in the light of your strong recommendation.

I fear that the Third will never be for me,and I listened to Alan's YouTube recommendation the other day. I was shaken,but not stirred.

[John Boyer]

It's almost as if Draeseke is deliberately parodying the worst excesses of the virtuosic Lisztian concertos of his contemporaries.

Perhaps that's the point.  It would not be the only time a composer took the opportunity to lay out a bit (or a lot) of irony.  The outer movements are so un-Draeseke that maybe he was just playing it for laughs.  What saves it all is that there is so much good humor in it, whereas Liszt's bad imitators are deadly serious in their Sturm-und-Drang excess.  Once you get past the initial bewilderment of the Lisztian bombast, the concerto can be enjoyed for what it is, which is a lot of fun -- Victorian music hall, Mr. Ed, and all.

[Mark Thomas]

Perhaps that's the point.  It would not be the only time a composer took the opportunity to lay out a bit (or a lot) of irony.

It would help, me at least, if I knew that was what Draeseke was doing. Is there evidence in Draeseke's writings or contemporary criticism which might support that idea? The otherwise excellent draeseke.org site only has a not-very-informative 2004 review (in German) of the work, and the booklet notes for the Hyperion recording major on Draeseke's apparent debt to Beethoven in the concerto! I no longer have the MDG booklet notes....

[Alan Howe]

I don't think that Draeseke did irony - at least, not until the 4th Symphony. The PC is, I think, a genuine attempt at quasi-Lisztian grandiloquence in which it succeeds triumphantly. I enjoy the work for what it is, a one-off display piece: Draeseke, after all, was a one-off composer. There's nobody quite like him.

[John Boyer]

I no longer have the MDG booklet notes....

According to Matthias Schaefers's notes, a review of the first performance described the concerto as "intended primarily for the display of virtuoso brilliance on the part of the interpreter of the piano part".  Schaefers goes on to say that during the compositional process Draeseke told the dedicatee that he

was disturbed by the passage work when it came to the design of the overall structure of the work.  As a result, for the time being he had made a purely symphonic design and planned to add the passage work in later on. In the outer movements [...], however, passage work and symphonic design sometimes appear as extremes between which no mediation at all seems to be intended.  [...T]he beginning of the first movement is already indicative of what is to follow.  The orchestra intones the main theme [...] but is interrupted by rushing scales and broken chords in the abrupt interventions of the the piano.  It is only after the third entry of the orchestra that the piano part takes on motivic trenchancy -- and this only for a short time.  [...T]he sections in the further course of the outer movements in which the piano is included in the motivic process are relatively short. 

The quality of the thematic material aside, Schaefers is suggesting that the piano part in the outer movements is worked in almost as an afterthought.

[Alan Howe]

described the concerto as "intended primarily for the display of virtuoso brilliance on the part of the interpreter of the piano part".

Thanks, John. And for the remainder of this fascinating review.

[Mark Thomas]

Thanks, John. That all seems to make sense.

[Wheesht]

A Swiss performance of the symphonic poem "Der Thuner See" in Thun in 1999 was apparently only the second time the piece had ever been performed.
The CD (or download) is still available from the Stadtorchester Thun, but the ordering information on draeseke.org is no longer up-to-date. This is the current contact information:
Thuner Stadtorchester
3600 Thun
Switzerland
mail@thunerstadtorchester.ch or info@thunerstadtorchester.ch

The CD is CHF 15.00 plus p&p, the download of the CD is CH 12.00 including a pdf of the booklet, the download of just the Draeseke piece is CH 5.00 (with booklet pdf).

A member of the Internationale Draeseke Gesellschaft has combined "Der Thuner See" with images of Lake Thun and surroundings in this film.

[Alan Howe]

Thanks for all this information. This is prime late Draeseke in quite an advanced idiom, demonstrating once again his individuality as a composer. The work really needs a real-world recording by a top orchestra, but nobody seems interested.