Gernsheim cello and piano concertos

[terry martyn]

It's a work that amply  repays repeated listening - even with half the year left,I reckon that this might turn out to be my favourite this year

And Jonathan's review brings added insight to this deeply convincing work

[eschiss1]

Actually, I think you've hit on it for the opposite reason: the market rates the absence of innovation - even a new name is tricky. Whether their music is "stylistically" original, to use that word Schoenberg rightly choked on, is a point one rarely gets to when people see the name and think "I don't recognize this and haven't heard this, it's probably one of those Modern composers like Arnold Bax."

[semloh]

one of those Modern composers like Arnold Bax

    Sounds like me when I was in my 20s!

[Ilja]

Actually, I think you've hit on it for the opposite reason: the market rates the absence of innovation - even a new name is tricky. 

Well, yes and no. Audiences are often arch-conservative and so are concert programmes until anything new needs to be introduced. Then, other metrics enter the equation - in western Europe mostly ones that will give you a grant from the local/regional/national arts council. That's why I'm not optimistic about introducing any new romantic voices into the concert repertoire. We'll have to make do with an incidental performance here and there.

[terry martyn]

Can't say I entirely disagree,Ilya.

But,like a lot of other areas, sometimes it's not what you know,but who you know.

If a conductor of the punching-power of a Beecham (who almost single-handedly kept Rustic Wedding going for so long), or a pianist of the international stature of a Rubinstein , took up one of the top neglected romantic works, then the promoters would possibly give it a chance.

Rosand, in my view, almost succeeded with the Joseph White Violin Concerto,but maybe he was not regarded as a violinist at the highest pinnacle.

If a composition of the weight and merit of the Gernsheim Piano Concerto came to the attention of one of the top "players in the game", then it could be a contender for concert-hall outings. If we don't make the case for it (and other works of similar stature), then,who will?

[Ilja]

Sure, should someone like Yuja Wang choose to give a string of performances of the Gernsheim PC with several prominent orchestras and conductors, that would change the odds at least for a time, and make it more probable for others to pick it up and a performance tradition to find a foothold. But in the current climate, people like that will mainly stick to their handful of large concertos because of the frequency with which they perform. And I can think of no conductors today that have the clout of Beecham, or Karajan or Bernstein back in the day and perhaps more importantly, the time to adopt new repertory on a consistent basis. Järvi is a bit of a miracle, but he's also the exception.

[Alan Howe]

no conductors today that have the clout of Beecham, or Karajan or Bernstein

It's not only clout, but curiosity.

[Gareth Vaughan]

Spot on, Alan.

[Alan Howe]

If only Rattle, or Chailly or Pappano or Petrenko (Kirill) et al. had more curiosity, the clout that they undoubtedly have (even today) would bear fruit in more performances outside the standard repertoire...

[Ilja]

It's that also, but mainly time. The kind of conductor that reigns supreme over their own orchestra is a thing of the past. Even principal conductors of large orchestras are usually visiting conductors at multiple others at the same time, and spend more time traveling than rehearsing. I personally witnessed how Gergiev would have "assistants" do the rehearsals and only turn up for the performance itself, and he's no exception. And that lack of time also kills curiosity: when are they supposed to find and investigate new scores?

And the huge salaries they command take a toll on repertoire innovation as well, as they're pricier to perform than the standard stuff: more rehearsal time, preparation of materials, etc. A few years ago the Paris Opera decided to replace a live orchestra with a recording for a ballet performance at a few occasions so they could afford to hire Dudamel. There was an uproar and I'm not sure they went through with it, but it's telling that they were even considering such an extreme thing.

[John Boyer]

The inertia against out-of-the-way repertory is so strong that even the most famous performers cannot act against it. If Beecham and Bernstein could not revive Rustic Wedding, who could? When Järvi was music director at Detroit he programmed unusual things all the time, but no one followed his lead.

I asked the conductor of our local orchestra if he ever considered doing something outside of the norm (which, to be fair, he actually did now and then).  He told me that in an ideal world he would like to do more Reger, but that every time he programmed something unusual he could count 200 more empty seats in the hall.

The newspaper critics don't help (those that still exist) when they take a conductor to task for performing a little known romantic work.  They may wear their progressive credentials on their sleeve when it comes to the Kulturkampf -- I recall a recent revival of Bernstein's Mass being condemned in the New York Times because the critic considered it counterrevolutionary -- but when it comes to the repertory, they are as reactionary as they come.

[Alan Howe]

more Reger

Well, that's not where I would start!

[Alan Howe]

It's that also, but mainly time. The kind of conductor that reigns supreme over their own orchestra is a thing of the past.

How grateful we must be, therefore, for fearless explorers such as those whose recordings appear on, for example, cpo, via various German radio stations. We salute Howard Griffiths, Golo Berg, Frank Beermann, Ari Rasilainen and countless others who have defied the conventions and demands of the standard repertoire. We may want more, but just consider for a moment what we already have!

And with that, back to this superb Gernsheim recording...

[John Boyer]

And with that, back to this superb Gernsheim recording...

I listened to it yesterday, inspired by this thread. I think it's a good Concerto, but I don't think it's top flight. That is, it's well written, I enjoy it, it's worth hearing, but it seems to me there are quite a few other unplayed piano concertos that are more deserving of revival.

I threw a little shade on the work if only because the general theme of the latest post suggests that this is the sliced bread of lost concertos, while I find it just one of many good ones, but not an exemplary one.

[terry martyn]

With respect,John, I think you have to listen to it a number of times before you realise how good it is. The first time I heard it,I thought: this is pretty good,but maybe a bit Brahms lite.  But I listened to it more and more. And I am finding more things to admire,every time I listen

As I have already mentioned, Jonathan's review digs deep,and,the next time,I play it(tomorrow), I will have his review in front of me when I do.

I must have now played it for getting on thirty times, and it does not pall.