Thoughts about performing unsung music...

[Hilleries]

I'd say congratulations were in order - and I'm glad to hear how well the Reinecke was received.

Very well received indeed. We got the most compliments for it, some others also complimented either the Schumann and (less) the Mozart (maybe because we played it first). Of all the programme, people would choose a movement of Reinecke as their favourite. It is a chamber music masterpiece, imho. In this case I think not only Reinecke not being famous prevents it from being played more often, but also there are few performances of "unorthodox" ensembles, even the Mozart doesn't get much air.

[jerfilm]

In my humble opinion, I think too often we are critical of orchestras that don't sound like the New York or Berlin Philharmonics.  Like to characterize them as second or even third rate.  Yet, in general, the big 10 (and more) do not take chances and do not often venture into unsung territory.  That accomplishes at least two things.   Folks get to hear, over and over again, the warhorses that they all love.  Which keeps them coming back.  But (and I say this at the risk of being whipped with a wet noodle) my mom used to say "practice makes perfect" and of course she was right.  Which leads me to suspect that one of the reasons the "top" guns sound so good is, hell, they keep playing he same stuff over and over.  Why wouldn't they sound better?  They've played Beethoven 5 so many times they almost have it all memorized.   Id like to hear some of these folks tackle some of the adventuresome repertoire that we are getting from others. 

I ramble

Jerry

[Alan Howe]

I think you have a valid point, Jerry. My starting-point, though, was not the lazy flogging of warhorses (which obviously happens), but the enlivening of said standard-repertoire pieces by creative conductors such as Manfred Honeck - which then led me to wonder how often we hear non-repertoire works done with comparable creativity. I'm pretty sure, for example, that the two modern recorded performances of Draeseke's 3rd are actually pretty routine stuff compared with the one non-studio performance I've heard which was much more exciting. And a really exciting performance might just bring repertoire status that little bit closer. Anyway, who knows?

[Amphissa]

I am a great supporter of regional orchestras and orchestras that are not in the largest cities, having served on the board of several and helped with searches for conductors and principals. But I've also lived in large cities (NY, SF and Houston) and frequently attended concerts in other large cities (Atlanta, Chicago). There is, in fact, a substantial difference in performance, which is most commonly evident in strings and horn.

But also, there are other advantages that large, well-established orchestras have. First, although every orchestra seems strapped for funds, the large orchestras often have a much larger library of scores and have the resources to acquire scores much more easily than do small orchestras. Second, large orchestras usually provide a lot more programming each season, and so have the ability to schedule less familiar pieces. (Sadly, they don't do so as often as they could.) And finally, not only do they invite the big name conductors as guests, but they often invite the best and brightest up-and-coming conductors.

With all those advantages, you would think that we would hear more unsungs performed by these great orchestras. And I suspect the results would be remarkable. Unfortunately, here in the U.S., it just doesn't happen much. Unlike Europe, where orchestras often play music by composers from their country -- composers who are not so well known around the world. Luckily, they often broadcast the performances, and our UC archives are filled with those performances.

[Alan Howe]

That's a fascinating insight - thanks for sharing it.

[Richard Moss]

Certainly as far as recorded music is concerned, it seems to me that the major labels (EMI, HMV, DGG etc) have almost totally withdrawn from recording unknown works.  It was probably a decade or so ago when say EMI France would do a whole set of works (e.g. St. Saens' symphonies or his PCs) that, whilst not totally unknown were certainly not established 'warhorses' but now I can't remember the last time a release by any of the big labels made it to my (fairly extensive) 'wants' list.

On the other hand, as many members have observed before, previously unknown labels are now busy filing niches with unsung works (CPO, TOCCATA, Hyperion and many others).  I've also noticed a trend among some less '1st division' countries (if I can use that term musically), such as Latin america, Scandinavia that one or more labels almost see it as a national service to record the works of their own native composers (e.g. Tritos for 'mediteranean' works, BIS & Sterling for Scandinavian/North Europe  and of course the immense catalogue of former USSR works etc). 

Perhaps we all look at the demonstrable paucity of unsung works among concert repertoire but overlook the quite good selection now available on CD (even if we all, naturally, look to what we would like to have that is yet to be!)

Cheers

Richard

[Alan Howe]

Do you have any sense of the quality of the performances we get in unsung repertoire, Richard?

[Amphissa]

I guess the implied, but not explicit, thought in my previous ramble is that the well-established orchestras often do have better musicians and other advantages, and are thus able to offer better performances compared to the orchestras in smaller cities. So, I would think that those orchestras could make better recordings.

However, there is often something more to excellent recordings than the talent and experience of musicians. Ideally, I'm sure Naxos would have preferred to have one of the more renowned American orchestras for its series of American Classics recordings. And Naxos was able to find a couple of decent American orchestras along the way. However, most of the recordings have been made by marginal ensembles from other countries, conducted by people who might never have even set foot on the continent.

And the results are exasperating in some cases. A lot of American music has an element that is peculiarly American, derived from jazz, blues, even Hispanic roots. There is no way to write that into a score. It comes naturally to American musicians because they grew up with it. I once had the agonizingly unpleasant experience of listening to one of the great German orchestras play Bernstein's West Side Story suite. On another occasion, I sat in dismay as a touring European orchestra and a soloist of international repute played Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue. In both cases, they played all the notes. The tempi were fine. But there was no "swing" to the music. It was flat.

My point is, there is often an idiomatic aspect to music from any country that can be missing, no matter how accomplished the orchestra. Less famous orchestras often may not be able to achieve the same big, coherent sound and precision of major orchestras, but they may bring out idiomatic aspects of the music that outside orchestras cannot.

I am usually very interested to hear radio symphony orchestras of Eastern Europe play music by their national composers. Even if their ensemble is not as polished as one of the great orchestras, I usually feel as though, if there are regional roots to the music, the inflections will be there.

So, the original question is a difficult one for me. Yes, in many cases, I think we could have much better recordings of unsung composers, which would show the music to better advantage. But I'm not sure a polished, homogenized take on a composer always would tell us all there is about the music.

All that said, a recording of an unsung piece by an orchestra from  a distant country (culturally or geographically), led by a conductor equally divorced from the roots of the music, is unlikely to offer the best possible performance of a work.

Just my off-the-top thoughts.

[Alan Howe]

So, the original question is a difficult one for me. Yes, in many cases, I think we could have much better recordings of unsung composers, which would show the music to better advantage. But I'm not sure a polished, homogenized take on a composer always would tell us all there is about the music

I agree. But my original point was that a Honeck-type approach to the standard classics (i.e. one freshly thought-through and stunningly played), if applied to the unsung repertoire, might yield results that would make an enormous difference to the reputation of that repertoire. Järvi with the SRO in Raff, Noseda with the BBCPO in Rufinatscha and Barenboim with the CSO in Furtwängler are clear examples - although, sadly, rare ones.

[Richard Moss]

Alan,

For me that's a tough question as I know I am not a skilled listener - I simply listen and enjoy it (or not)!". 

My impression is that most 'unsungs' are pleasant to listen to but rarely scale the performance heights achieved for some of the warhorses done by 'elite' performers.  For me, it is very difficult to separate the quality of a score from that of its performance unless you have had the chance to listen to several versions of the same piece! (v. unlikely for an unsung) or are a skilled reader of scores and can imagine what it should/could sound like).

However, rarely do the elite performers undertake unsungs (Howard Shelley and colleagues on Hyperion is one classic exception to that rule) so I appreciate most unsungs are not performed by top division artists and usually I'm just glad to have the chance to listen at all (Cameo Classics is a 'classic' example of this latter, if you'll pardon the pun).  Sometimes, if we're lucky, an unsung work, usually by a 'sung' composer, creeps onto an album of a warhorse as a filler.

Where I have really enjoyed an unsung, it has left me wondering how much more might I have enjoyed it if performed by 'elite' artist - a question I don't expect an answer to anytime soon.

To finish, I hope, on a bright note, I have found, even with repeat listenings, that the Michael Samis Reinecke Cello concerto is a lovely work lovingly performed, even though all involved are, for most practical purposes here, 'unknown artists to match unknown repertoire.  So we can all live in hope of quality unsung performances but only rarely will we get them.

As the ancient Chinese proverb I've just invented says "in a shallow stream you rarely catch fat fish!

Cheers

Richard

[Alan Howe]

the Michael Samis Reinecke Cello concerto is a lovely work lovingly performed, even though all involved are, for most practical purposes here, 'unknown artists to match unknown repertoire

Michael, although previously unknown to us, is clearly a very eminent cellist...
http://www.michaelsamis.com/site/index.php/2013-04-13-21-38-01/biography
...which explains the exceptionally high standard of his playing in the Reinecke CC. However, if I were being picky, I'd say that the Gateway Chamber Orchestra was a size too small, well though they play on the recording. I'd have preferred a larger string section and the soloist placed further back. In other words, I can imagine a better recording - with Samis remaining as soloist, of course. I imagine that the root of the problem (minor though it is) was funding.

[Richard Moss]

I hadn't intended to cast any aspersions on Michael's ability (quite the opposite) but merely to say he didn't have the international reputation of say a Yoyo Ma or other 'elite' performer.  You perfectly valid point about the orchestra is where my limitations in envisaging a 'better' performance let me down.

As to Amphissa's points above about the larger orchestras naturally having a better selection of unsung (and other) scores, I appreciate they may have more financial muscle to buy them in the first place but, as someone who has had administrative associations with the workings of orchestras, I would love to hear his view on whether they would be prepared to let other orchestras use them for a modest payment?  (and if not, why not - or do they suffer 'museum blight' whereby every artifact often seems to be jealously guarded from any rival, no matter how minor).

Surely, better to have someone else perform them (and get a 'by line' credit for sourcing the scores) than simply to stay in the archive unseen and unheard?

One last comment on unsung performances and how polished CDs maybe spoil us.  Some years ago I went to listen to (Sir) Simon Rattle conduct Schubert;'s tenth symphony (as realised by Brian Newbold) at the South Bank Festival Hall in London, having previously immensely enjoyed this 'unsung' on Hyperion's recording by Sir Charles Mackerras.  Unfortunately, by comparison, the  live performance sounded almost like a first or second rehearsal only.   Ah well, it was an 'unsung' live!

Cheers

Richard

[JimL]

If I may take a slight exception to what Alan said about the Gateway Chamber Orchestra vis-a-vis larger ensembles, I'm not entirely certain, but I do think that some large orchestras deliberately pare down the number of string players in concertos.  Maybe it's just my imagination, or maybe they only do it for Mozart or Haydn concertos, but I do think that the use of a chamber ensemble in the Reinecke produced just about the perfect blend of sound.  The solo wasn't drowned out at any point that I could tell, and that is my standard of excellence in performing a concerto from any period.

[Alan Howe]

That's fine, Jim. I did say I was being picky!

[semloh]

Rather obviously, no matter how brilliant it might seem, we have no way of knowing whether a single recording of any work offers a good performance until we have another version against which it can be judged. This is a two-edged sword when it comes to unsung works because, on one hand, it means that listeners are generally not comparing the performance to those of the world's great orchestras and are willing to tolerate a lower level of technical skill in order to hear the music; but, on the other hand, it may do the unsung work a serious disservice and condemn it to obscurity! Some of the school orchestra recordings of neglected British music, for example, managed, I think, to (just) come out on the positive side of this relationship.

Hard work, political astuteness, and no little courage are needed to be a champion of obscure and unsung music in performance, and I salute conductors such as Adriano who have taken on the task. When it comes to the recording companies, they too, take a huge risk when agreeing to record large scale unsung works, and yet the catalogue continues to grow at a rapid pace, with very fine orchestras playing vast quantities of once largely unheard music. So, I feel optimistic about the future of unsung composers/music.