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Hi all

I believe Molique composed 7 violin concertos - the last was never published. None have been recorded. A crying shame, as Toskey favours them and gives 5 and 6 in particular pretty high marks. He rates no 6 higher in terms of originality and expression than no 5. Swalin has this to say of no 5: " its coherent form and motive structures divulge a skillful compositional technique". Emery also praises the composer in his volumes on the violin concerto.

I confess to a solid interest in the composer and there is an outside chance violin concerto no 5 may feature in a semi-pro concert in this corner of the world in a year or two, but that is not saying much and I will hold my tongue until something more/less concrete can be said. Molique's cello concerto (1853) was broadcast on radio years ago and is a superb work, one that yours truly praised in the same breath as the Schumann concerto on the old Raff forums.

Strange really. Molique was a very fine violinist, but his concertante works for the instrument have been ignored. He worked hard at becoming a serious, versatile composer and produced concertante works for a variety of instruments. A fine oboe concerto (1829) has been recorded. And he produced the world's first full-scale concerto for concertina (ie, accordion) in the 1850s. This may be hard to believe, but the latter was performed on national radio here about 15 year ago.

There are other works to consider, but I can't help but feel angry re the neglect of this gentleman's works for his instrument of choice. Perhaps an indie label might like to try something, as scores/parts have survived ...

regards
Peter

Hi all

The disc is a knock-out. The Goltermann concerto dates from the 1860s. The Jeral concerto in a minor is of 1899 vintage. Both substantial pieces and welcome additions to our fairly meagre 19th century romantic cello concerto repertoire. Clic Musique! were very efficient a la packaging and despatch.

regards
Peter

Hi all

This is going to be a tough one, but I would really appreciate all the help and advice I can get re tracking down this recording. And extracting a copy of the recording - preferably in cd format, but whatever.

It is of a romantic violin concerto by a hopelessly obscure virtuoso composer. Thank the deity that Russian nationalism during the post-1917 traumas survived enough to allow resurrection of some 19th century oddities.

Details as follows:

Nicolai Yakovlevich Afanasyev (Afanasiev also). Dates 1820/1821 to 1898.

Concerto for Violin and Orchestra - no other details known (he composed nine).

Soloist: Eduard Grach (well known maestro - now aged 80).

USSR State Symphony Orchestra, conductor Ivanov.

Recording data: Mezhdunarodnaya Kniga DO 362.

Date of recording: possibly 1960s - certainly before 1971.

This is a project that will involve some pooling of knowledge bases and ideas. Who would hold a copy of the recording? What archives and where in Russia?

Any suggestions and initiatives would be helpful. There could be a couple of other 'finds' coming up. Discography research basically confirms what we already knew. Only a handful of 19th century violin concertos were recorded before the CD revolution. There has been a mini-explosion since, but very mini. That won't change much, so all the more reason to work hard tracking down 'lost' recordings of yesteryear.

regards
Peter 
 

Hi all

Thanks Jiml. Saw, read, ordered. Yes, they will be very welcome. This will turn out to be a red letter night for ordering if the both discs arrive safely.

regards
Peter

Hi all

Gentile, you are a true gentleman. WELCOME!

That is one of quickest CD orders I have ever made. I was faster than a speeding bullet... Incidently, I have always found Spanish distributors to be prompt and well-organised.

The Dowani recording is of cello concerto no 4, op 65 - dating from 1871. It is with orchestral accompaniment. No details to hand.  I recommend it though - a simple, melodic work intended for vthe composer's students. A lot of charm.  No 3, with luck, will be of equal appeal.

regards
Peter

Hi all

An earlier reply got lost in cyberspace yesterday. Dear me.

Whatever, I can confirm that the recordings of the David concertos nos 4 and 5 will be world premieres. Good compensation for unforgivable neglect in the 1900s.

David was a major figure in European musical life - not just as a violin virtuoso, because he taught at the Leipzig Conservatory for years from 1843 (Joachim and Wilhelmj were among his students) and was Mendelssohn's guide and advisor when the latter's great e minor concerto was being composed. And its first performer.

I have heard the number 5 played through (violin solo, then later with violin and piano) by a couple of fine semi-pro musos and can confirm its appeal. The standard texts (Toskey, Emery, Swalin) all enthuse over the work.

I suspect the recording will be the greatest - and most unexpected - 'unsung hero' musical windfall of the year.

regards
Peter 

Hi all

Just turned the computer on. I have taken my second sedative since reading the glad tidings.

Who would it thought it. Alan and Mark, are you in tears? Remember the huge threads about the German violin concerto as a musical form on the old Raff forums? About 8000 hits as I recall. 

Maybe a few folk out in music land have been reading carefully and taking notice after all.

I know how you might respond Alan and I agree. This is a huge break through -but the great gap lies in the time zone of Reinhold Becker, Gernsheim, Huber, Hiller, Damrosch, Brull (complete), Jongen, Bazzini and a myriad more from the period c1860-1900.

regards
Peter

Hi all

A warm welcome to Empfindsamer.

One of the highlights of the year (for me) has been the release) of a CPO disc featuring Herzogenberg's Odysseus Symphony (1870s) and his Violin Concerto in A minor (1889). I believe the recording has been discussed previously, but I heartily commend to anyone exploring this composer's work. The concerto was a real surprise - am still basking in the afterglow after listening to it again this evening.

regards
Peter

Hi all

This is a fine thread for concerto folk! I agree with the comments on Debussy's Fantaisie in G for piano and orcahetsra (1890). It is a true concerto and in traditional form. It may have been Debussy who kick-started what might be considered an overly precious affectation, conceit or trend among some composers who produced a few concerted works in the 1890s and later. That is, a calling them everything but a concerto. A petty and rather adolescent rebellion against the traditional form and even more pointless if there was no real change in the musical form.

Cecil Chaminade's Concertstuck in C Sharp for piano and and orchestra was first performed at Antwerp in 1888. The work is a delight and a real hoot, starting with a massive orchestral intro that is a jolting 'take-off' of a Wagnerian theme.

One more concerto to add - Louis-Emmanuel Jadin's Piano Concerto no 4 in D Minor appeared in 1810. A work on a rather grandiose scale that, to me, sounds like a direct retort to Beethoven. It appeared on the same disc as the  concerted works of his brother Hyacinthe: Forlane label, 2003. 

regards
Peter

Hi all

Have done a check (excuse the unintended pun) if it will help. No trace of a c minor Dussek concerto as far as I can see. There is a g minor op 49 of 1801.

To fill in the picture a la recorded performances of Dussek concertos, here are two more, one with an opus number:

e flat major, 1789. Vanguard Classics, and wrongly listed as op 26 on the disc. The op 26 is a 1794 sonata for two pianos on the Praga label.

f major, op 27, 1794. Koch Schwann, with the op 17 and op 40 concertos.

regards
Peter

Hi all

To Jiml especially, but to all really. Quality stuff to mention.

The cello concerto is on page 6 or 13 - disc number is Klingende kostbarkeiten aus Tirol 54. The 1910 cello concerto goes with a 'Spring Overture' (1880) and a folksy and pretty joyous 'Tirolean Symphony' (1884).

Another fine Pembauer offering is a couple of pages earlier - number 44. A very fine High Romantic era work - a sincere, passionate and very traditional Festive Mass. The whole box and dice - soli, chorus, orchestra, with a couple of motets for good measure.

regards
Peter

Hi all

Especially to Gareth first up. Ah me, it is nice to know someone else has acquired a taste for Herr Fitzenhagen's music. Yep, music of real charm and warmth. Another recording or two would be nice. 

Now some good news for new member PCC, who posted on Georg Golterman a little while ago.  I also have the ancient Casals recording of the cantilena from his Cello Concerto no 1 in a minor, op 14 (1852).

But by some freakish good luck I found a full and fairly recent recording of his Cello Concerto no 4 in g major, op 65 (1871) a couple of years back. It is a Dowani Edition play-along production. Am not sure whether the one currently listed is just for cello and piano, but the one I acquired provided cello and orchestral accompaniment as well. Quite a lengthy piece for what seems to have been a concerto composed for his more advanced students. The work is very melodious and constructed in such a way as to test a few skills while remaining kind to young soloists.

Good hunting PCC!

Another recent obscure cello concerto discovery was recently available at Records International. It is a fine concerto of 1895 vintage by Mexican composer Riccardo Castro. Cello folk might also like to try out a lovely 1910 concerto by Tirolean composer Josef Pembauer. It is available from the Tiroler Landesmuseen. 

regards
Peter

Hi all

I did a recount - the number of recorded performances of violin concertos composed in the 19th Century is probably closer to 160 than 170. That is very grim indeed,  because as mentioned in a previous posting, thousands were composed in that glorious, unsurpassed musical century.

Perhaps it is time to take stock. Mark and Alan may wish to offer comment on what I am about to suggest, one way or another. I suspect they will agree it will make sense to get things in proportion and perspective. On those themes, it is worth noting that after the maestro Joseph Joachim had established himself as the great violinist of the late 19th century, as many as 1000 new concertos may have have been dedicated to him alone over the next 30-40 years.

It will come as no surprise to a few forum members that I have been studying the development and history of the 19th century romantic concerto as a musical form for quite some time.

If it is deemed worthwhile, I will list all of the violin concertos composed during the critical period c1860 to 1900 which I know have been recorded one way or another. It could be a useful reality check - we have HUGE reasons to rage about the musical vandalism of the last 100 years.  If folk could add some missing works, it would be wonderful.

Here is a heretical comment: yes, World War II was a disaster for some German and Italian ( and in other countries?) music publishing houses and musical institutions, but I do not believe all (or even most) of the stories put about regarding the 'great fires' in response to requests for scores. Let us not underestimate the indifference, lack of interest, laziness, unwillingness to help, vandalism and sheer incompetence of some musically ignorant employees and even some public archivists and librarians. Believe me, I know what I am talking about because of  bitter local experience in a country that was not bombed.

regards
Peter

Hi all

Does anyone know if Richard Hayman is still composing?

Whatever, I am curious (but not intensely) about possible recordings of some of his most 'progressive' 20th century compositions:

Dali - scored for large orchestra, with the sole instruction to 'ascend chromatically in slow pulse'
It is not here - a light and sound work performed in Morse Code
Buff her blind - for musical toys and electronic instruments
Roll - the composer rolling along a street covered with bells as a sign of Hindu devotion.

On a more serious note, I am interested in getting the best DVD version of the Glass opera Satyagraha. Honest advice welcome - I like the work. Opinions re his violin concerto would also be helpful.

regards
Peter

Hi all

The problem with the Vieuxtemps violin concerto no 4 has nothing to do wih the quality of the music, or any over-emphasis on virtuoso display, or whatever. The composer was actually moving on and trying to be a bit more 'profound' in the work and mark himself out amid his contemporaries by producing something out of the ordinary. Remember, the concerto was composed in the 1840s. We can hardly expect the composer to produce violin concertante music on the scale of a Brahms or Bruch or Reinecke or Raff or (yes) Herzogenberg, et all, in that decade. And I am not criticising music of the era of Schumann and Berlioz - just trying to maintain perspective.

That is, producing a concertante work on such a grand scale - symphonic, with four rather varied movements, whilst also keeping his virtuoso craft skills up front - was not easy for Vieuxtemps and may have been beyond his ample musical means. The order of difficulty issue for the concerto may be the real problem - it is damnably difficult to play. I have several recordings and every soloist falls short. Nay, every soloist ultimately fails. And pro violinists have told me what a horror it is to play and have demonstrated why -  even worse than Joachim's Hungarian concerto, and not just because of the notorious scherzo. Heifetz came close (so the blurbs say) at breaking through the work's 'order of difficulty' issue, but he refused to go near it again. And that effort was way back in the 1930s - with a drastically reduced score which made things easier for him. The recording makes that obvious. Still a cracker, though.

This sort of issue has been been discussed ad infinitum many times in this forum and in its predecessor over the last few years. I can empathise with  Alan, Glazier and Kriton. Alan hits the nail on the head in regard to the core problem - so few of the really great violin concertos of the era  c1860-1900 have reached recorded form. I am truly grateful for anything I can get in the way of violin concertos composed in the 1800s - late classical (eg, Viotti, actually an 18th century composer, but whatever - he produced five in the early 1800s) to late romantic, such as Stojowski's recently recorded 1899 concerto.

The problem is that  - and this is not a joke - no more than about 170 violin concertos composed between the years 1800 to 1900 have ever reached recorded form. That is obscene. Something like 6000 or more violin concertos were composed in Europe during that period. And not by 'virtuoso display' clowns or amateurs. As Alan (and others) are well aware, we are in no position to be strongly judgemental about the 19th century violin concerto as a musical form yet. I will refrain from making  any provocative remarks about the possible over-supply of recorded violin concertos from other eras...

regards
Peter
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