Knighthoods

[BFerrell]

As a foreigner, can anyone illuminate me on why Elder has a knighthood, along with Elton John, and Vernon Handley never received the honor? Or Hickox? How is the game played?

[albion]

In short, there is no rhyme or reason to it, but generally 'lobbying' plays a key part (witness Ethel Smyth's battles in securing the title for Dan Godfrey) - certainly, Vernon Handley and Richard Hickox (by virtue of their stalwart and pioneering service to British music) should have been officially acknowledged with the conferring of knighthoods.

I have absolutely no problem with this 'reward' for achievement being given to either Mark Elder or Elton John (or Bruce Forsyth, for that matter). Perhaps Handley's and Hickox's absence from the rosta is a reflection on the (perceived) lowly status of much of the British music that they championed, coupled with a growing societal ignorance of what actually constitutes quality and commitment.

[Josh]

This must be false.  There is only a single living Brit who hasn't been knighted: Tommy Wilson, an 8-year old from Salford who, by unfortunate coincidence, was playing hide&seek with friends when the Knight-dispensary lorry came by.

[Dundonnell]

Consider the 20th century British composers(those born after, say, 1860) who were given a knighthood:
(O.M.=Order of Merit; C.H.=Companion of Honour. An O.M. is a very great honour indeed; there are only 24 members of the Order at any one time and it therefore, effectively, outranks a knighthood).

Sir Edward German
Sir Arthur Somervell
Sir Granville Bantock
Sir Henry Walford Davies(Master of the King's Music)
Sir John Blackwood McEwen (as Principal of the Royal Academy of Music)
Sir Hamilton Harty(also conductor)
Sir Arnold Bax (Master of the King's Music)
Sir George Dyson
Sir Arthur Bliss, C.H. (Master of the Queen's Music)
Sir Eugene Goossens (also conductor)
Sir William Walton, O.M.
Sir Lennox Berkeley
Sir Michael Tippett, O.M., C.H.
Dame Elizabeth Maconchy
Sir Andrzej Panufnik
Sir Malcolm Arnold
Sir Peter Maxwell Davies (Master of the Queen's Music)
Sir Harrison Birtwistle
Sir Richard Rodney Bennett
Sir John Tavener

Benjamin Britten was made a Life Peer as Lord Britten in 1976, a few months before he died. He had refused a knighthood but had accepted an O.M. and a C.H..
Ralph Vaughan Williams refused a knighthood but had an O.M.
Frederick Delius and Herbert Howells both had the C.H.

Composers with the lesser order of C.B.E.(Companion of the British Empire):
William Alwyn
John Linton Gardner
Alun Hoddinott
Gordon Jacob
Elisabeth Lutyens
James MacMillan
William Mathias
John McCabe
Robin Orr
Alan Rawsthorne
Edmund Rubbra
Thomas Wilson

and at the bottom of the pile-
Daniel Jones, O.B.E.
George Lloyd, O.B.E.
Arthur Butterworth, M.B.E.

You will note those British composers whose names do not appear in these lists
A word of caution though. We do know that Vaughan Williams and Britten refused knighthoods and that Robert Simpson refused a C.B.E. I suspect that Holst refused honours offered.

Whether the composers who are listed deserved the particular honours awarded I leave to others to judge-although it has always slightly puzzled me that Lennox Berkeley got a knighthood ahead of Alwyn, Rawsthorne and Rubbra.

Oh....and I profoundly apologise to those composers who received honours which I have failed to pick up on

[edurban]

"...I have absolutely no problem with this 'reward' for achievement being given to either Mark Elder or Elton John (or Bruce Forsyth, for that matter)..."

Or Sir Alex Ferguson .

David

[Sydney Grew]

Sir George Clement Martin was of course nineteenth-century (just, as he was knighted in 1897 and lived on until 1916); but . . . how about Sir Edward Elgar (or am I missing something?) And it might be noted that Sir Henry Walford Davies was another one appointed Master of the King's Musick (in 1934).

I would not presume to attempt a complete list of nineteenth-century musical knights; no doubt there are hundreds, perhaps even thousands. But a random clutch I have most recently encountered are:

Sir Joseph Barnby
Sir John Goss
Sir Henry Bishop
Sir Augustus Harris
Sir Julius Benedict
Sir John Stainer
Sir George MacFarren
Sir Michael Costa

A worthwhile communal endeavour perhaps: to assemble a complete list of musical knights?

[Jimfin]

I think Elgar was omitted because he was born before the 1860 threshold suggested. But Elgar was surely the most decorated of all the composers: a knighthood, later promoted to a Baronetcy (something Parry also received), the OM, the GCVO, Master of the King's Music... have I missed anything? Of course Lady Elgar encouraged him to accept as many as possible. Jelka Delius said that 'Fritz would have refused a knighthood', but I don't know if he got the chance.

[Dundonnell]

I think Elgar was omitted because he was born before the 1860 threshold suggested. But Elgar was surely the most decorated of all the composers: a knighthood, later promoted to a Baronetcy (something Parry also received), the OM, the GCVO, Master of the King's Music... have I missed anything? Of course Lady Elgar encouraged him to accept as many as possible. Jelka Delius said that 'Fritz would have refused a knighthood', but I don't know if he got the chance.

Correct

[Dundonnell]

Add-

Sir George Dyson

Dame Elizabeth Maconchy

Elisabeth Lutyens, CBE

[edurban]

Then there was Sir Frederick Arthur Gore (F.A.G.) Ouseley, probably the only musical knight who actually inherited his Baronetcy.  I remember Parry being highly critical of some piece of his...perhaps it was St. Polycarp?

David

[Lionel Harrsion]

Then there was Sir Frederick Arthur Gore (F.A.G.) Ouseley, probably the only musical knight who actually inherited his Baronetcy.  I remember Parry being highly critical of some piece of his...perhaps it was St. Polycarp?

David

Sir Thomas Beecham inherited his Baronetcy too, I think.

[albion]

Sir Thomas Beecham inherited his Baronetcy too, I think.

As did Gerald Tyrwhitt-Wilson, 14th Baron Berners, better known as Lord Berners (1883-1950).

[Dundonnell]

....and how could I forget-

Sir Granville Bantock

List now updated.

[Dundonnell]

As far as Conductors are concerned:

Sir Landon Ronald
Sir Dan Godfrey
Sir Hamilton Harty
Sir Henry Wood, C.H.
Sir Thomas Beecham, C.H.
Sir Adrian Boult, C.H.
Sir Eugene Goossens(also composer)
Sir Malcolm Sargent
Sir John Barbirolli, C.H.
Sir Reginald Goodall
Sir Charles Groves
Sir John Pritchard
Sir Alexander Gibson
Sir David Willcocks (as Principal of the Royal College of Music)
Sir Neville Marriner
Sir Edward Downes
Sir Charles Mackerras, C.H.
Sir Colin Davis, C.H.
Sir Roger Norrington
Sir John Eliot Gardiner
Sir Richard Armstrong
Sir Andrew Davis
Sir Simon Rattle
Sir Mark Elder

and Sir George Solti(naturalised  British)

Bernard Haitink has an honorary Knighthood and an honorary C.H. and Andre Previn has an honorary Knighthood: both are foreign citizens.

I am sure that had Richard Hickox lived longer he too would have been knighted. Vernon Handley is an obvious exclusion from the list, as is that very fine conductor Norman Del Mar.

(Again, apologies to anyone omitted )

[Greg K]

Many of us here in America are merely amused by this sort of thing.

Something called the "Presidential Medal of Honor" is the best we can do along these lines (though hardly analagous).

Few, however, could name a single recipient, - or would be very impressed by it in any case.

Such a triteness these titles are.